Baseball

[kurtsimonw]

Current standings (inc. tonights results)

One thing I've never understood. When you have 30 teams and 6 divisions, why not have 6 divisions of 5 teams? Instead, having it the way they do, it makes the conferences a bit lob-sided.. doesn't make sense to me.

Also, alot of my friends complain about how the interleague play is 'fixed', is it not like the NFL where they have a rotation and teams opponents are just picked?

[leviramsey]

Because they only play interleague during a brief period and every team basically plays every Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, each league would have to have an even number of clubs.

When Tampa and Arizona came in in 1998, both were projected to be American League members (as the previous expansions had alternated between the leagues). However, the owners of Arizona began pushing to be in the National League (given that they'd get three geographic rivals in the NL vs. maybe one in the AL)... in order to make things work, Bud Selig selflessly volunteered his Brewers to switch leagues (the fact that they'd get far more away fans by playing the Cubs than they would against the White Sox or Twins had nothing to do with it).

The next round of expansion will probably make it 2x16... I wouldn't be surprised to see Mexico City and San Juan, Puerto Rico.

[kurtsimonw]

Mets with yet another heart-breaking loss.. leading the Yankees in the 9th, an error with 2 outs gives them the opportunity to score twice and win them the game. Thankfully the Red Sox did us a favour with an extra innings win over Philly.

Also, is it a general thing to hate the Cubs, or is that just me? Something about them makes me really, really hate them.

[leviramsey]

[kurtsimonw]

[leviramsey]

I LOL'd

Yeah, yeah, yeah, these are only three games in the middle of June. Whatever. I am 100% pumped for this series. It’s easily the most excited I’ve been for a baseball game since....Opening Day 06? Just in case Cubs fans don't know, this is what a playoff atmosphere feels like. Wait, the Cubs were in the playoffs just last season before getting swept in the first round by the Diamondbacks? Sorry, I must have been too busy watching my 05 World Series DVDs to notice. But hey- Harry Caray! Sammy Sosa! Hot chicks and beer!

It's like they've got everything but, uh, baseball. Shit. Maybe........next year?

Clearly, every member of the White Sox reads this blog (besides for Ozuna): they absolutely blew the doors off of Pittsburgh the last three games. That was just utter domination. Sure it was the Pirates, but the Sox took care of biz like they had to. Good teams are supposed to beat down bad ones, right? The Cubbies, of course, proceeded to get swept by a stellar Rayz team that looks more and more legit as the season progresses.

So here we are, Sox-Cubs, the first of three at lovely Wrigley Field.

To commemorate the occasion, I sent an email to TUP Friends and Family and asked them how they felt about the Cubs. In case anyone forgot, part of being a Sox fans is hating the Cubs. So yeah. I was going to only give an exert of what everyone wrote, but I’m feeling good after the last three games- and hey, it’s Friday- so here’s everything.

Quickly: right when Spring Training was starting up, I was talking to a friend at work who is from Detroit and recently moved into Chicago.

"What's the appeal to being a White Sox fan?" he asked without trying to be a jerk.

At the same time, we both said "Well, they're not the Cubs"

"Yeah, I get that," he said.

Thanks to all.

Ignorant and drunk

A world series they proclaim

But "next year" won't come

I don't hate the Cubs as a team. I hate their fans. They easily have the worst fans in baseball. Wrigley Field has turned into a giant frat party where people go to get drunk. No one watches baseball there; it's a place to be seen. The biggest concern for the "fans" that go to Wrigley is who is singing the 7th inning stretch. Also, the Cubbie lifestyle seems to be to buy every new merchandise that has a Cubs logo on it or you are not considered a real fan. They have a certain smugness that one would expect to find in San Francisco or a European city like Paris or [Milan].

They are a bunch of pompous assholes that think just because their team gets more national attention or more all star votes that it automatically makes them superior to everyone else. Almost every Cubs fan I know is a complete moron that does not know a thing about the game. They are like that friend that everyone has that talks sports but just pulls any knowledge that they pretend to have out of their ass. There are some real, genuine Cubs fans out there that are tolerable and that I could actually have an intelligent baseball conversation with, but for the most part they are all a bunch of douche bags.

I have loved the White Sox and hated the cubs for as long as I can remember and that will never change. When thinking about why I hate the cubs I was able to come up with a bunch of reasons, but the main reason is simple, their fans annoy the crap out of me. Is there another fan base that talks as much trash with so little success to back it up? I still can't get over how everyone kept referring to them as a "Team of Destiny" last year when they finished 8 games over .500 in the worst division in baseball.

That is the best example of why I can't stand their fans. Additionally, I can't stand when they pretend that they don't hate Sox fans. If you bring up the '05 World Series to a true cubs fan and they get quiet and give you a smile that says I have no good comeback to that, you can see how much they hate the White Sox. They think we are the red-headed step children of Chicago and in some ways we are…but not on the field. Kick their asses White Sox. Win all 6 and shut up the Northsiders for a while.

In the beginning, it was genetic. Where I grew up (South Side), when I grew up (never mind how long ago), you were a Sox fan because your dad was a Sox fan. I didn't know any Cubs fans and I especially didn't know anyone so lacking in balls as to be unable to make up his mind which team to cheer for -- and thus to claim to be happy when either team won. (Yeah, right, that's a reasonable position.)

In the years since, I have come to realize there are many other reasons to hate the Cubs: clueless fans, endless lines at the troughs in the men's room, the dungeon-like atmosphere on the concourse and the likelihood that your car will lose an antenna, a mirror or worse while it's wedged into one of those overpriced lots around Wrigley. But in the end, it all comes back to my DNA. And there's no arguing with that.

Top Ten Reasons I hate the Cubs

10. Anthony Oral, enough said.

9. Rookie of the Year, I think the Cubs would actually sign a kid with a magic arm.

8. They blame their 100 year drought on a goddamn goat.

7. Old Style tastes like HIV infested piss (according to Oral)

6. Boytown vs. Ghetto (but not really one anymore) = I’ll take the semi-ghetto any day, I’d rather have to wear a

bullet-proof vest to the game than a butt plug

5. It is the easiest team to root for just because everyone else does. I guarantee some kid in Pittsburgh decided to become a Cubs fan today because the Pirates blow, he can watch the games on WGN and his boyfriend gave him a reach-around wearing his cubs hat.

4. The ballpark is not a hangout. Cubs fans treat games like a **** social event. While getting drunk at a game is fine by me, at least appreciate the game and what is going on. The majority of Cubs fan’s overall lack of knowledge of the game of baseball is astonishing.

3. Wrigley Field sucks, I’m so sick of people saying how its “historic.” I’ve been to two games there and both times I had a pole blocking my line of sight on some point of the field.

2. You can’t walk up to the ballpark and buy a ticket. I became a sox fan because my parents could afford to take me to games. We didn’t have to pay up the ass to sit in back of a pole and walk a mile to the stadium from our car.

1. Heard this quote once and it is so true, “there are no such thing as Cubs fans, only Wrigley fans”

1) Turning on Sosa -- Cubs fans blindly defended Sosa through thick and thin, including when his BAT WITH A CORK IN IT broke on the field for the whole world to see. All of a sudden, when Sosa walked out on the Cubs during his last game in Chicago, it was enough for Cubs fans to burn his bridge after 12 years of loyal service. Listen, I'm sorry it ended poorly, idiots, but he was one of the few reasons why your team was relevant during that period.

2) Trying to discredit the White Sox 2005 World Series title using the "ratings" argument -- Cubs fans are quick to point out that the Sox-Astros series was one of the lowest rated World Series contests of all-time. The south side response: who cares? Wrigley Field fosters a "look at me, I'm on my cell phone at a baseball game!" argument to the point where some fans literally believe a championship would be tainted in some way due to poor ratings. Really? Actual fans do not care about insignificant crap like that.

3) They hate on Hawk (fine.), but they love Harry Caray (what?!) -- If fans of a team like the Braves or Cardinals rip on Hawk, I'll politely listen and explain why I think he's awesome. After all, Hawk is kind of an acquired taste, but I understand how his weird homerism can get annoying. But Cubs fans have the gall to rip on Hawk while simultaneously liking Harry Caray. Caray was unconventional, by many accounts a total jerk, and often made little sense due to poor knowledge and slurred speech. Hawk is pretty much all of those things (except for the jerk part... every person I know who has met him has said he was great). Pimping Caray but hating on Hawk is a double-edged sword that Cubs fans idiotically wield.

4) They hung a dead goat on a statue of Harry Caray -- Curses aren't real. You know what is? An entire century of bad baseball. This was pretty disgusting... but also kind of funny.

5) "Go Cubs Go" -- This dated, eighties-sounding song written by Steve Goodman gets played at Wrigley after every Cubs victory. Though it didn't make its resurgence into regular rotation until until recently, it will surely be a deep-rooted Cubs "tradition" in three to five years when Cubs fans will attest it "always" got played after wins. When I was still at the University of Iowa, a bar I was at played it THREE TIMES in an hour after the Cubs won the pennant. Iowa does not have pro teams.

The Cubs can counter this by making fun of the fifties-sounding "Go Go White Sox" songs which gets played randomly at U.S. Cellular Field, and you know what? I'll give them that. Both songs are stupid. The difference is the Sox one has more than two lines to remember, thus making it more of a real song and less of a drunken sing-a-long where any schmoe can learn the lines and pretend along just like everybody else.

6) Sponsorship -- Most Cubs fans I know slammed the White Sox when Comiskey changed to U.S. Cellular Field in 2003. First off, by all accounts -- and 'by all accounts,' I really just mean according to the movie "Eight Men Out" -- Comiskey the owner was a jerk. He benched pitcher Eddie Cicotte with 29 wins so he wouldn't have to pay him a $10,000 bonus for winning his 30th game, he gave the team flat champagne for winning the AL pennant, and he even forced players to pay to have their uniforms washed during the season.

So first, I'm glad they got his name off the stadium. Second, the Sox used the money to do important things like boost payroll and make the park better -- yes, renovations are a good thing. And third (and probably most important), Wrigley Field was the first stadium ever to have a corporate sponsored name! If you point this out to Cubs fans, they use some ass backward argument about how it's a "tradition," which, to me, means "if you wait 70 years, no matter how dumb something is, it's automatically good just because it's a tradition."

7) They threw quarters at my 7 year-old cousin (a girl) -- In 2004, I was forced to go to Wrigley Field as part of an odd birthday party. My aunt won sky box tickets in some sort of charity auction, and since it was my present, I literally couldn't say no. I brought my buddy Ken who likes the Sox as much as I do. The Cubs were pretty much winning the whole time, but the Pirates ended up coming back late in the game and taking a lead. Ken and I went out onto the walkway outside the sky box and started yelling "GO PIRATES!" until the fans below were riled up enough to start throwing peanuts at us. While we mocked them, they realized throwing quarters at us was much more effective (fair enough, we probably deserved it). We ended up getting bored with the drunk idiots, and, fearing injury, we went back into the box and shut the door. When my little cousin walked out to use the restroom, the Cubs fans launched a barrage of quarters at her with no mercy. It was as if they couldn't distinguish her from us. I was in total awe of their savagery.

8) Running Steve Stone (the greatest announcer ever) and Chip Caray (dece) out of town because they acted like a journalists and not fawning hero worshipers -- Wikipedia sez:

Stone expressed frustration with Cubs manager Dusty Baker for not controlling his players. At one point during the 2004 season, Kent Mercker called the broadcast booth from the bullpen during a game to complain about comments made, and he also confronted Stone in a hotel lobby. Among the comments that reportedly irked Mercker were Chip Caray's praise of Houston Astros pitcher Roy Oswalt. It was also reported that Mercker and left fielder Moisés Alou yelled and shouted at Stone on a team charter plane to an away game in 2004, and that Alou tried to have Stone and Caray banned from the team charter flights.

On September 30, 2004, in the wake of a 12-inning loss to the Cincinnati Reds that all but buried the Cubs, Stone lit into the team. "The truth of this situation is [this is] an extremely talented bunch of guys who want to look at all directions except where they should really look, and kind of make excuses for what happened...This team should have won the wild-card [playoff berth] by six, seven games. No doubt about it." The comments stunned manager Baker, and were a factor in Stone's resignation as a Cub broadcaster the following month.

9) Wrigley Field -- No fireworks, little league bullpens, dated everything, troughs to pee in, throwing back home run balls (yeah, like you're throwing back an A-Rod record-breaker... it's all or nothing, guys).

The stadium has this unexplainable mystique purely cultivated by fans and media (most visiting managers and players hate it). It's funny, I have a buddy from Scotland who visited both stadiums and had no idea why Wrigley has the kind of buzz it does.

"U.S. Cellular is just so much better," he said bluntly.

Little did he know most baseball fans would consider that blasphemy.

10"Wait 'Til Next Year!!!!" -- Cubs fans love this phrase, and I'll explain why. When they team is winning, they're happy. They fly their "W" flags, talk about how 'destined' the team is, and complain about the one position that needs to get better (this year: outfielder, usually: pitcher). But when the team absolutely blows (most of the time), they throw out "Wait 'Til Next Year" as some idiotic credence... as if to imply the team will have the inside track over everyone else when next summer rolls around. We get it, you're loyal, but you sound like morons.

If the Cubs are 29-42, fans celebrate meaningless wins like playoff games. But if they lose, no big deal, they'll for sure win next year! After multiple generations of Cubs fans have died without seeing a title, I have no idea how this weird expression still gets perpetuated. It's this odd sense of false invincibility that Cubs fans love.

Things I think are important to point out: I'm a Michigan fan who respects a Ohio State (I'd even say "fears"), a Bulls fan who digs the Pistons (Tayshaun is God), a Bears fan who doesn't mind the Packers (besides Favre, the eternal idiot), and even an Iowa alumnus who loves Iowa State (seriously.). I'm not one to buy into rivalries just because I'm 'supposed to.'

But the Cubs-Sox thing is real. I was sitting in the third deck at The Cell when Barrett punched A.J. in the face. The buzz around the stadium was unlike anything I'd ever seen at a sporting event. I felt the tension building to the point where I feared a massive brawl. You can say the Sox care way more than the Cubs, and you'd probably be right. Cubs fans usually downplay the crosstown rivalry and say the Cardinals are their biggest rivals, which is fair enough, but little means more to most Sox fans than destroying the Cubs year after year. And I know it grinds the Cubs' gears when the Sox are able to pull it off.

I recognize the Sox aren't perfect. Copying the Cubs' ivy was a disgrace, I cringe whenever Sox fans get homophobic when bashing Wrigley/Wrigleyville, and if you're going to use the "who has hotter fans?" argument, the Cubs will always win in a landslide (except possibly in 2006 when the Sox had tons of cute bandwagon chicks). But if you're an objective fan of baseball -- I repeat: baseball -- then I have no idea how you could casually pick the Cubs over the Sox.

(of course, one could draw more than a few parallels between the Villa and the Cubs (biggest club from the Second City that's generally underachieved for the past century, in which case the White Sox would be sha... and I'm sure that I could find a fair number of those points made on KRO, but they'd be wrong!)

I hate the Cubs because of all the jackasses in the bleachers that wear Japanese headbands and all the idiot vendors outside selling stupid Fukudome t-shirts. When the Sox signed Shingo Takatsu in 2004, you didn’t see anyone mock his culture. He was simply a baseball player, a pretty good one, and that’s how he was treated. The Cubs fans love Fukudome because he gives them another sideshow to take their minds off of the game. They don’t like the guy because of his stellar plate discipline, they like him because they can wear racist t-shirts and hold up signs with lame puns. It’s a testament to how perpetually ignorant the fan base is. I can’t wait until the Cubs sign an Indian shortstop in five years and everyone in the bleachers shows up with red dots on their foreheads. Morons.

I hate the Cubs because Go Cubs Go is the worst song ever written. After Don’t Stop Believing, a lame song if there ever was one, rallied the White Sox in 2005, the Cubs dusted off that gem to give the frat boys a real reason to root for a victory: if the Cubbies win, we all get to sing!

Singing is for karaoke bars, ladies, a place Cubs fans surely stumble to afterwards because that's when the real fun begins. Never mind baseball, that only serves as the pregame for your evening bar crawl. As that one incredibly stupid shirt reads: win or lose, we still booze.

I hate the Cubs because though it may be impossible to detest an entire cross-section of hot chicks in Chicago, the majority of the ones that attend Cubs games make such thoughts tempting. They take away seats from real Cubs fans who can’t afford a $50 ticket to sit in bleachers and spend the entire game texting while wondering when they should stand up and start clapping. If only baseball was as interesting as their facebook account, maybe things would be different. Just make sure I get tagged in these pics! Sluts.

I hate Cubs' fans because of this point made by HJE

You cheated your way through the 2005 playoffs. And you know you did. And you’re proud of it.

Right guys, good one. Because since the Cubs have never won and never will win jack shit, any memorable moment from your franchise in the last 100 years was made by Sammy Sosa. Sammy Sosa, a guy who cheated a variety of fun and exciting ways. You know, the guy who made Wrigley cool again. Yeah, him. Sosa was a dirty cheater and all you scumbags worshiped him for five home run-filled seasons. Just like the kid who shit himself at summer camp (and I think we all know who I’m talking about here), people don’t forget.

I hate the Cubs because all you losers think Ron Santo should be in the Hall-of-Fame. He shouldn’t. Maybe if it was the (wait for it)…Hall of Very Good, or a Hall of Fame for people who suck at radio, or a Hall of Fame for people who make Harry Carey seem competent by comparison. This old Cub should realize that he doesn’t need such recognition to validate his career, but that won’t stop him from crying in front of television cameras every time he gets passed over year after year by the Hall.

I hate the Cubs because all you asshole fans hate Alfonso Soriano and love Reed Johnson. Don’t even try to argue that because it’s true, and it’s painfully stupid. What, you couldn’t think of a cool Dominican Republic-style accessory to wear to the game? Booooo. But hey, Reed Johnson! He’s white! He must be good at baseball! Too bad I’m so drunk and stupid that I can’t distinguish what such a skill set would look like.

Soriano might be one of the ten coolest players in baseball and you blowhards feel more comfortable with **** Reed Johnson in left field. Now, of course, your dumbass manager hits The Fonz leadoff instead of fifth, so you don’t get him at his full value. The guy doesn’t get on-base so well but is good at hitting home runs. Hmmm….and Lou Pinella can’t figure this one out? Tell him to put down the tuna sandwich and read Moneyball. It’s a book.

I personally find the Cubs fans annoying because they'd go on and on about how they knew how it felt to be a Sox fan. No they don't. Maybe lately, with Bartman and shit, they're getting a taste of what the Nation went through, but the fact is that it hurts worse to have the hottest **** chick in the world dump you after you think you've got everything made than to never have a chance.

Not to mention that Wrigley is nowhere near the shrine to baseball that the older, yet somehow more livable, Fenway is. Wrigley just got better press because the NL has had a far greater proportion of shit stadia since the 60s, while Fenway had to compete with Tiger Stadium and Comiskey (and the newer AL stadia, like the renovated Yankee Stadium, SkyDome, and Kauffman are better than the cookie-cutter shit in the NL).

[kurtsimonw]

There is some very funny stuff in there.

I think my main dislike for them is the same as Newcastle. The fans and media seem to portay them as if they were United/Yankees.. yet they never win anything! Obviously this may not be true to the Cubs in general as I don't really get much US sports on tv here, but I like the Sox and everything they've been saying in your posts seems to ring true with my feelings about them, in general.

Oh, and don't compare Villa/Cubs and sha/Sox again..

[RunRickyRun]

^^ Brilliant stuff Levi ^^

(of course, one could draw more than a few parallels between the Villa and the Cubs (biggest club from the Second City that's generally underachieved for the past century, in which case the White Sox would be sha... and I'm sure that I could find a fair number of those points made on KRO, but they'd be wrong!)

The fact that the cubs play in blue and haven't won The Series for 100 years makes 'em more like sha for me

[kurtsimonw]

Yankees/Mets, Mets lead 6-2, top of the 8th.. I wonder how we'll blow this one.

[kurtsimonw]

Mets win 6-2! Need the Sox to do us a favour - currently 3-0 up in the first.

[leviramsey]

A pair of youtube vids from colorful baseball managers:

Tommy Lasorda

[B-dub]

Mets win 6-2!

It's called character. Something the steroid-using Yankees and their tourist, glory-seeking fans know nothing about.

[B-dub]

And regarding the Cubs, I've nothing against them really, but most seem to be more enamored with Wrigley Field and a nice day out than they are with the actual team, the baseball, and the results.

[kurtsimonw]

Mets win 6-2!

It's called character. Something the steroid-using Yankees and their tourist, glory-seeking fans know nothing about.

I don't mind the Yankees to be honest.

[kurtsimonw]

After the thumping defeat by the Yankees on Sunday night, we picked up the win in Baltimore, while the Phillies are 8-3 down in the 10th against Toronto.

[thetrees]

I witnessed my first live baseball game the other week and couldn't quite get that the visiting player needed to miss the ball in order for the home side to win.

I found myself willing him to hit it to take the game further and make it interesting.

He didn't :cry:

[leviramsey]

Presumably it would be because it was the top of the ninth, two out, with the tying run on base (and two strikes in the count). A strikeout (or any out for that matter) would thus end the visitors' half of the inning, and since the home side already had the lead, there was no need for them to bat in their half of the inning.

It's analogous to a cricket game where play stops once the second side to bat has eclipsed the first side's total (though baseball unlike cricket, would simply refer to it as a win by whatever the score was after 8.5 innings, not as a win by 3 outs).

Which game was it?

[leviramsey]

Also, alot of my friends complain about how the interleague play is 'fixed', is it not like the NFL where they have a rotation and teams opponents are just picked?

There is a rotation system in place so that this year it's East vs. East, Central vs. Central, and West vs. West (and next year, IIRC, it will be AL East vs. NL West, AL Central vs. NL East, and AL West vs. NL Central). However, a few games are reserved for "interleague rivalry games", which never change from year to year.

Some of those rivalries are geographically obvious:

Mets - Yankees (same city)

Cubs - White Sox (same city)

Washington - Baltimore (neighboring cities)

San Francisco - Oakland (neighboring cities)

Dodgers - Angels (theoretically the same city)

Houston - Dallas (same state)

St. Louis - Kansas City (same state)

Cincinnati - Cleveland (same state)

Florida (Miami) - Tampa Bay (same state)

Milwaukee - Minnesota (neighboring states)

Note that the Mets get to play against the Yankees while the Marlins get to play the same number of games against the Rays. It most likely does hurt the Mets in the standings.

For the teams that don't have a natural rivalry, MLB essentially dips into history or just pulls something out of their ass. For instance, the Red Sox generally either have the Braves or Phillies as their "rivals", and the Pirates normally get the Tigers and/or Blue Jays (before the Expos moved, the Orioles and Phillies, the Jays and Expos, Pirates and Tigers, and Red Sox and Braves were designated rivals). The Padres and Mariners are normally rivals (though their only real connection is that they have spring training in the same city). The 16 NL vs. 14 AL obviously rears its head and forces a few more changes.

It's not the most fair system (an analogy would be each PL club playing their nearest rival not in the PL and counting the points in the table...), but a point could be made that interleague play's sole purpose is to allow for the geographic matchups I've listed above to occur in a game that counts.

I'd perhaps reform the system so that every AL/NL matchup would have three games scheduled in the beginning of the season (since the interleague games are the least important games in the standings, you're at least leaving a club that limps through interleague play with a chance of going on a run back into contention). That would imply 48 interleague games per AL club (leaving 114 AL games) and 42 interleague per NL club (leaving 120 NL games). A step further would be to make most of the middle of the season interdivisional play (which would increase the chance of teams coming back from 10-plus-game deficits in mid-to-late August).

[kurtsimonw]

Thanks for that, Levi.

Just curious as to what happens with rain shortened series - like the Cubs/ChiSox this past week - do they just have to fit a one-off game in somewhere down the line or what?

[El Zen]

I'd perhaps reform the system so that every AL/NL matchup would have three games scheduled in the beginning of the season (since the interleague games are the least important games in the standings, you're at least leaving a club that limps through interleague play with a chance of going on a run back into contention). That would imply 48 interleague games per AL club (leaving 114 AL games) and 42 interleague per NL club (leaving 120 NL games). A step further would be to make most of the middle of the season interdivisional play (which would increase the chance of teams coming back from 10-plus-game deficits in mid-to-late August).

I like this idea.