maqroll Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've just one quick question which I hope our American friends can answer, as I cannot find the answer anywhere. What is the factor to decide if a team is in the American League or the National League ? It's obviously not due to location, as the Mets & Yankies are in different leagues, as are the White Sox and Cubs - so what is it/was it that decided if a team should be in the American or National league ? The National League was a singular entity in the 1800's, as was the American. The National was considered the real professinal league, but eventually the two merged to form Major league Baseball. It's hard to determine how teams were assigned to their league. it just kind of happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted July 30, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2009 The National League was the original league, founded when a few of the leading clubs left the National Association of Professional Baseball Players (which was basically founded when the National Association of Baseball Players decided to ban professionalism) to play a more regular schedule (more or less exactly the reasons that McGregor put forth for creating the Football League). Of the original National League clubs, only the clubs that would become the Cubs (at that point known as the White Stockings...) and Braves (at that point known as the Red Stockings...) have continuously been in the NL since 1876; even though the Reds played the Aston Villa role in driving the formation of the league, after a few seasons they were expelled from the league for daring to sell beer at games. In the 1880s, the Reds formed a rival major league, the American Association, which allowed alcohol to be sold (since most of its clubs were owned by breweries or distilleries!). Eventually the American Association and the National League would merge to become the National League and American Association of Professional Baseball Clubs. By 1900, the National League in its modern name and form would exist (as Louisville, Baltimore, Worcester, Providence, and Cleveland all folded) as eight clubs, the modern-day Braves (playing in Boston), Giants (playing in New York), Dodgers (playing in Brooklyn), Phillies, Pirates, Reds, Cubs, and Cardinals. Around that time, Ban Johnson took control of the Western League, a faltering minor league (basically the different leagues were party to the National Agreement which governed player registrations... the main difference between minor and major was that if a major league club put in a bid of a certain standard amount for a player on a minor league squad, the minor league club had to sell; the agreement also prevented clubs from settling in other clubs' territory). Johnson decided to make the Western League a major league on par with the National League, so he withdrew the league from the agreement, and started moving clubs into the big cities with NL clubs (St. Paul Saints became the Chicago White Sox, the Milwaukee Brewers would become the St. Louis Browns, the Grand Rapids Rustlers would eventually become the Cleveland Indians, the Kansas City Blues became the Washington Senators, the Toledo White Stockings would eventually become the Boston Red Sox), and arranging the sale of those clubs to rich businessmen who had been unable to buy NL clubs. The Western League would then be renamed the American League and, not being party to any agreement over player registration with the National League, started paying NL stars to jump ship. After a couple of years of this, the NL agreed to recognize the American League as a co-equal major league, and the World Series would be agreed to a bit later. Until the mid-1990s, the National League and American League were legally separate entities (though the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball had some power over the respective league offices). The two leagues operated separate revenue-sharing agreements (the NL until it ceased being a distinct entity required that twenty-two cents of each ticket sold be paid to the visiting team, while the AL required that 30% of the face value of each ticket sold be paid to the visiting team), generally decided whether or not to expand on their own, and operated with slightly different rules from the beginning (for instance the AL rule for a suspended game was that if a game had completed five innings (or four and a half if the home team was ahead) by the time play was suspended, it was a legal game if someone was ahead; the NL required that the game be replayed or resumed to count in the standings... let's not get started on the DH rule!). In short, the two leagues evolved to their current lineups largely separately. Because each league parceled out exclusive territories for its franchises, that necessitated that the two-team cities had to be two-league cities (the White Sox have the exclusive right to play American League baseball in Chicago, for instance... and before someone brings up two NL teams in New York: New York and Brooklyn were separate cities until the 1890s). There was one consummated league switch: the Brewers moved from the AL to the NL about a decade ago (because the Diamondbacks were adamant about being in the National League and the Rays were adamant about being in the AL). Before that, the Red Sox, Yankees, and White Sox briefly joined the NL during 1920 (when the National League technically dissolved itself... the story behind that is insanely esoteric). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted July 30, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2009 The contrast in that history with the early years of the Football League is perhaps critical to understanding a lot of structural differences between US and British sports organisations. While the National League was a breakaway from the equivalent of the FA, the Football League would be subservient to the FA (this is probably because there was no competition like the FA Cup...). Furthermore, when serious competition arose beyond what could be accomodated with a single division league structure, the Football League elected to merge and create the multiple divisions with promotion and relegation system; while the National League opted for a separate but equal setup. Come to think of it, it would be nice if the Football League never merged with the other leagues: * no southern clubs * no Man City or Utd * no small heath We'd be third (behind Liverpool and Everton)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingphil Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks for info - Kind of make sense (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usvilla Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 so with Manny & Ortiz testing positive for performance enhancing drugs do the red sox world series wins have an asterisk next to them now :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted July 31, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2009 At this point, it's probably safe to say that nearly everybody in baseball for the past 15 years was doping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usvilla Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 i agree - too much money out there not to if everyone else is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 1, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 1, 2009 Summary of deadline day trades Detroit gets: Jarrod Washburn Seattle gets: Luke French and minor-leaguer Mauricio Robles The Tigers land a solid veteran lefty for the rotation, a rental player to help them hold onto the lead in the AL Central. Washburn hits the free-agent market at the end of the season and he would've been too expensive for the Mariners to re-sign. At the time of the trade, his 2.64 ERA was ranked third in the AL. The Mariners get French, who will land in Seattle's rotation immediately and could develop into a strong starter for Seattle. He started five games for Detroit this season and is 1-2 with a 3.38 ERA. Robles is still over a year away from the majors. Minnesota gets: Orlando Cabrera Oakland gets: minor leaguer Tyler Ladendorf Shortly after first-place Detroit made the move for Washburn, the Twins took the chance to improve their middle infield. At the time of the trade, the Twins were only two games behind Detroit and Cabrera's hot July hitting should be a boost -- he is hitting .373 in July and riding an 11-game hit streak. He could bat in the No. 2 spot. Ladendorf was [i'm guessing it was supposed to be "Minnesota's" --LR] second-round pick last summer and was recently promoted to Class A. Milwaukee gets: Claudio Vargas Dodgers get: Vinny Rottino Vargas spent 2007 with the Brewers where he started 23 games, pitched 134.1 innings and went 11-6 with a 5.09 ERA. Since then, he's been with the Mets and the Dodgers mainly as a relief pitcher. Vargas, who didn't pitch this season until July 7 because of an elbow injury, pitched only 11.0 innings. He'll likely fill a middle relief role for the Brewers, but he could start to help Milwaukee's struggling rotation. Rottino has played in 18 major-league games over three seasons and his ability to play several positions could put him in a reserve role for the Dodgers. Boston gets: Victor Martinez Cleveland gets: Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Bryan Price Despite some minor trades prior to the deadline, this late blockbuster deal brings the Sox the boost they wanted. Martinez will probably relieve an aging Jason Varitek, play at first when Kevin Youkilis moves to third to cover for Mike Lowell and will also be a DH. This is an offensive upgrade from Adam LaRoche, who was acquired July 23 and subsequently traded to Atlanta at the deadline. Boston gave up some decent prospects but they did not have to give up highly sought-after prospect Clay Buchholz. Masterson has been a reliever and a starter this season and was the Red Sox second round pick back in 2006. Florida gets: Nick Johnson Washington gets: minor leaguer Aaron Thompson With youngster Emilio Bonifacio struggling at the plate and Florida still in the wild card race, the club made a move. Johnson, a strong and consistent veteran, will play first, pushing fellow veteran Jorge Cantu to third. That means that Bonifacio moves to a utility role. In Washington, Adam Dunn could take over first in Johnson's absence and the Nationals save some of his hefty salary. Thompson was a first-round pick in 2005. San Diego gets: Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter, and Adam Russell White Sox get: Jake Peavy The Padres needed to unload Peavy's salary and after several attempts to send him to the White Sox, it finally went through. Since No. 5 starter Bartolo Colon was put on the DL, and Richard was sent to the Padres in the deal, the White Sox will struggle to fill that fifth spot until Peavy returns, likely in late August. For the 2007 unanimous Cy Young Award winner, the Padres get four young pitchers to restock their farm system. Richard was 4-3 with a 4.65 ERA in 26 games, including 14 starts, with the White Sox this season and could land right in the Padres rotation. Poreda is a little behind Richard and could contribute later on this season. He was a first-round pick in 2007. Cincinnati gets: Scott Rolen Toronto gets: Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and Zach Stewart Reds GM Walt Jocketty and Rolen were together in St. Louis so Jocketty knew exactly what he was geeting with this deal. "He will bring a lot to this ballclub that's been lacking," Jocketty said. "He brings leadership. He's a veteran." Rolen is a seven-time Gold Glove winner and continues to do well at the plate, hitting .320 this season with eight HR and 43 RBI. The Reds hoped Encarnacion would be the third baseman for years to come but he turned out to be inconsistent and even led the team in errors last season. The Blue Jays will make Encarnacion their starting third baseman and they were able to dump a good portion of Rolen's salary. Roenicke has pitched 13.1 innings so far this season and Stewart was just promoted to Triple-A. Boston gets: Casey Kotchman Atlanta gets: Adam LaRoche In a little over a week from when the Red Sox got LaRoche from the Pirates, they shipped him to the Braves for another first baseman. It's obvious that the addition of Victor Martinez made LaRoche expendable but because the Sox traded for another first baseman leaves many scratching their heads. Perhaps the motivation for this deal was to free up some money for Martinez. LaRoche, who was drafted by the Braves in 2000, could be revitalized by a return to his roots. Colorado gets: Joe Beimel Washington gets: minor leaguers Ryan Mattheus and Robinson Fabian Within reach of an NL Wild-card berth, the Rockies made this second addition to their bullpen that has been hit with several injuries and slumps. Earlier the Rockies traded for veteran righty Rafael Betancourt. Beimel is another veteran and great situational lefty. Washington gets two strong prospects however, Mattheus is still recovering from ligament surgery. Yankees get: Jerry Hairston Cincinnati gets: minor leaguer Chase Weems The Yankees needed to fill the void left when Brett Gardner went on the DL with a broken thumb. Not only will Hairston fill that void, he's also versitle and, as Yankees manager Joe Girardi said, "can play pretty much anywhere." Weemes was in Class-A Charleston this season and was a sixth-round pick in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 7, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7, 2009 Anybody watching Red Sox/Yankees (live on ESPN America)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I am! And I was watching last night too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Tonight should see far better pitching than lest night's encounter. Smoltz was just awful and has been designated for assignment by Red Sox management today, and Joba wasn't as good as you'd hope after some terrific performances since the break. Beckett for the Sox tonight is one of the best in the game, and AJ Burnett for my Yankees can be one of the best as well. Expect to see less runs tonight, and don't be surprised if it's a close ball game. Your thoughts, Levi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 I would agree with that assessment... I haven't noticed as many Sox fans in the expensive seats close to home plate as last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 Ortiz grounds into an inning-ending double play... get him back on the juice forthwith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 It was a good play by the Yankee defense though, to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 Judas Damon is the victim of Beckett's 4th K tonight. Which feed is ESPNA using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 YES tonight and last night it was NESN. I much prefer tonight's commentary What do you reckon the Sox are going to do with the open spot in their rotation then, Levi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 Junichi Tazawa appears to be the favorite atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 HP umpire appears to have a fairly big strike zone tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 Beckett escapes from the fifth inning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted August 8, 2009 Posada judged to have interfered with Ellsbury... 1st and 2nd, no outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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