Strong City

[BOF]

Thanks Terry. A good insight into how you came to where you are today and why You are right of course regarding the 'freedom' we think we have and where the money comes from, where it goes and how we're all institutionalised by the likes of mortgages etc. I suppose most people will say that because that 'animal' (i.e. modern society) is so big, you can't really escape it so you just have to make the best of it, do your best to enjoy it in your own way and get on with your own life trying to live it the way you see best (and by that I mean morally as well as materialistically). I suppose the sad truth in this day and age is that when it all boils down to it, the richer you are, the freer you are. Which is probably not the best indictement to have.

[TerryCzap]

I suppose the sad truth in this day and age is that when it all boils down to it, the richer you are, the freer you are. Which is probably not the best indictement to have.

It may be true that those who are wealthy have a few more toys and travel a lot more. I would suggest something else though. If you observe the wealthy, they are very tied up with their wealth. They are always trying to find a way to keep their monies and get more. They must have extra security and even bodyguards to protect themselves and their wealth. It is as if they are enslaved by the wealth that they have, which makes them very not free. This is why many "rich" men commit suicide when they lose their fortunes. They were not truly wealthy.

This little story from the web illustrates some fabulous principles.

The businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.

The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."

The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?" The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions." "Millions, señor? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "Isn't that what I'm doing right now?"

[BOF]

Good one.

[TerryCzap]

Terry, you may have answered this question already - but many many people in the past have claimed to be the messiah - what makes you think Michael is?

Is it because he says it is? Or because you believe him to be? How can you know other people who claimed to be the messiah aren't, after all others believed them to be?

I’ve never met anyone else who has claimed to be Messiah - except Messiah simply means “anointed” which all preachers claim to be. I know there are lists of people who claim to be messiah but I have not heard of anyone who says that in it’s most serious manner.

I’ve seen kooks interviewed who have made such claims, but the guy is drunk and foul mouthed, and you know he is just in it for the entertainment value. David Koresh would be another example. Though to be fair, it was the press who labeled him as the “sinful messiah”, but he never claimed to be the actual, factual representative of the biblical prophecy.

It was similar in Jesus day. Barrabas claimed to be the messiah and was going to set the people free. But the real one stands out from the rest. He takes the heat. He seems too credible and must be vilified, like the producers of the End of the World Cult did with Michael. If you knew the character of the one who is making this claim, you would know he was not doing this except that it is true.

[holte_k1]

Terry are you a Villa fan? How many others in the camp follow gods own team?

[BOF]

Terry are you a Villa fan? How many others in the camp follow gods own team?

Answered here. No he's not.

[TerryCzap]

No, I am not - and I do not believe anyone else here is either.

[snowychap]

It was similar in Jesus day. Barrabas claimed to be the messiah and was going to set the people free. But the real one stands out from the rest. He takes the heat. He seems too credible and must be vilified, like the producers of the End of the World Cult did with Michael. If you knew the character of the one who is making this claim, you would know he was not doing this except that it is true.

Terry, I don't think that anyone is 'vilifying' him because he is too credible quite the opposite. Though I would also not say that I am vilifying him.

I have read with more interest your last few posts about your opinion of the world around you and have to say that a lot of your points are very valid. I happen to agree that the world is not the most wonderful and delightful of places but swapping a lack of freedom in what you would term the outside world for the lack of freedom in your world does not appear to be a step up.

It appears to me that your morality and decision making is still inflicted upon you from an outside source - just God? rather than peers/governments.

[holte_k1]

All non villa followers go to hell, infidels.

[TerryCzap]

Snowy,

For my own reference and helpfulness as to your background - do you consider yourself a christian or that the bible is something other than fiction? This helps me understand where you are coming from. The reason I say this, is because I do not bother using spiritual or biblical refferences if someone claims to be and athiest or agnostic an thinks the book is a fairy tale.

[snowychap]

Terry, I am not a christian though I attended schools where Divinity (yes divinity not RE) was a compulsory subject. At school,I also attended chapel very regularly (again compulsory). I would certainly allow for the possibility that some parts of the bible had foundations in historical events but I question anything that asserts itself as the one definitive truth.

That is why I am genuinely happy that you have found your peace in this world (I was not being facetious when I said this earlier) BUT take umbrage at you attempting to convince me that your unshakeable belief is the truth. In your mind it is but in anyone's mind truth is only opinion.

Where I am coming from is that until everyone questions things over and over and over again and stops just accepting what other people tell them (be it from God, the Messiah, government, received wisdom, etc.), the world will not struggle to become a better place - it won't become one. And I did question in my own mind the programme about your group when I was watching it in the same way that when I sat through the news screening of Colin Powell's speech to the UN about Iraq I questioned the veracity of his opinions and the conjectures he had been given to promulgate.

[Risso]

As a confirmed atheist, I nevertheless find this thread, and Terry's contribution in particular, absolutely fascinating. It's always interesting to read about a way of life that's so completely at odds with what you believe yourself.

[TerryCzap]

All quotes from Snowy:

Terry, I don't think that anyone is 'vilifying' him because he is too credible quite the opposite.

This would be like saying that the Western press and Western powers did not vilify Saddam Huessein. A very proficient campaign was run to vilify Michael, and it could be proved in a court of law. If you knew the man, his character and his statements that he gave to C4 (of which I have audio copies), you would understand what I am referring to. If you knew the man, you would know why his claim to Messiah is credible. 2000 years of generations have accepted by faith that Jesus was the Messaih and this is nothing different.

BUT take umbrage at you attempting to convince me that your unshakable belief is the truth

Excuse me! I do not desire to “convince” you of anything. I already told you how to escape the terrible trauma of me doing this. You are willingly reading my posts.

I happen to agree that the world is not the most wonderful and delightful of places but swapping a lack of freedom in what you would term the outside world for the lack of freedom in your world does not appear to be a step up.

I could understand why you might say what you say, considering you really know very little about the world that I actually live in (Strong City). How could you have any idea of the freedom, or lack of it that I have? I can tell you this, I am perfectly free to do whatever I want to do, at any time I want to do it. I am perfectly free to follow my conscience at all times. Most people are not. I could not say this when I was in society at large. We have had to leave houses lands, spouses and families in order to live with a clear conscience. Soon we will leave the earth's government altogether

It appears to me that your morality and decision making is still inflicted upon you from an outside source - just God? rather than peers/governments.

There is a major difference here, God does not force me to do things as the state does. God gives me, and you, the choice to do what we want to do. The state is not so benevolent however. If, as all the noise from the Brits reaches the “new world” the state could easily come in here and take the few children we have left, just because of public outcry (mob rule) - and this would not be due to any crime of any manner that was committed, since no crime has been committed. That is part of the problem with governments today, they are based on mob rule, bypassing supposed constitutions, instead of any real type of freedom. God does not work that way with me.

I have to be very honest with you, I have so very little interest in convincing non believers in a God, to become believers. I would much rather let them enjoy their lives without “harassing” them to be converted. I only continued posting here because it seemed there were some folk who had a genuine interest finding out more about the film and its contents. I hope you live a long and happy life, and do not wish anything on you that you do not want.

[TerryCzap]

As a confirmed atheist, I nevertheless find this thread, and Terry's contribution in particular, absolutely fascinating. It's always interesting to read about a way of life that's so completely at odds with what you believe yourself.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here about being "completely at odds with what you believe yourself".

[snowychap]

I have to be very honest with you, I have so very little interest in convincing non believers in a God, to become believers. I would much rather let them enjoy their lives without “harassing” them to be converted.

It seems then that your reason for actively searching out discussions about Strong City was defensive.

Indeed as a result of a bit of googling of my own it seems that - IF indeed you are a member of that little group in New Mexico and those others such as Timothy, Joy, Mesha et al are also your neighbours in Strong City - you have been on a very large, defensive media offensive. I refer to other fora such as digiguide, vice magazine, athinkingman, etc.

I assume you are Terry Czapiewski?

[TerryCzap]

You may call it whatever you like. I call it living in the moment.

[Gringo]

A defensive media operation is not the same as harrassing people to be converted. It would appear from Terry's last post that they fear some form of media backlash from the documentary which could have dire consequences for their community and so are trying to put their side of the story.

[TerryCzap]

It would appear from Terry's last post that they fear some form of media backlash from the documentary which could have dire consequences for their community and so are trying to put their side of the story.

That would be a very inaccurate application. What I was demonstrating by my statement: is what happens when the state controls the conscience of its citizens, even if the state is swayed by mob rule.

Our statements on the web, telling our point of view of the film, likely has little impact on people who have been deceived already by the fraudulent presentation. First impressions are lasting ones.

The film was the "media backlash". Bounties have been offered for someone to put a bullet to Michael's head. Hundreds are vainly clamoring for Michael the pedophile to be impisoned. Others offer their desire to come and pulverize him. Do you not think that is the backlash?

[villab0y]

Some of you have asked or commented about Jeff, Michael's son. He has posted a little statement on our site to make things clearer in regard to his role in things. It can be found at this link.

Terry, I do apologise, it wasnt Jeff my original question was about.

It was a younger boy, Matthew I think? Dark hair and made some planets out of clay that he showed Ben in the film.

Maybe this is Jeffs son? Sorry for confusing you.

It is him I was originally asking looking frail and scared..

[Gringo]

It would appear from Terry's last post that they fear some form of media backlash from the documentary which could have dire consequences for their community and so are trying to put their side of the story.

That would be a very inaccurate application.

Terry - I was responding to the previous post by snowychap referring to the debates on other internet forums. Not an accusation as such.