Strong City

[snowychap]

So to put in words that perhaps you might understand, God's care is there is apparent misfortune just as it is there in apparent good fortune. I hope this helps.

Sorry, but I start to get very tired with and bored of people who feel the need to patronise.

Banter, have a laugh, tell someone that you believe they're wrong but don't go around belittling their intelligence in order to try to support your side of the discussion. Puerile style, I'm afraid. :roll:

Sorry friend if you took it that way. I have nothing in my heart that resonates with this thought about patronization you have brought up. If I have done something wrong, it is in ignorance. But I am very willing to say forgive me.

Just to re-organise your post, Jerry. Only so as it identifies who posted what.

[TerryCzap]

So God has told michael to sleep with these women.

Did God tell him why?

I just don't understand why God would tell someone to sin.

I think this has been expained a couple hundred times. If God tells someone to do somethig, is it a sin?

This is a test to see who can hear God's voice and who cannot.

[hanifa]

This is a test to see who can hear God's voice and who cannot.

...to see who will hear and yield to God's voice and who will not.

[TerryCzap]

To Don

We are only 48 people.

Only 48. Were you not 70 strong? When did you lose these others?

Some got offended and left. Some are still part of our family, living in the area, but not on the property here.

[Jerry]

So God has told michael to sleep with these women.

Did God tell him why?

I just don't understand why God would tell someone to sin.

This is a rare moment. I don't think I have yet seen anyone on any of the blogs I have been on that had the sense to ask this most obvious and simple question.

First off in the bible there are "living parables" where people were asked to do things that illustrated a given truth and message. These parables were often very against the norm and this is the same today.

Man was created married to God and one with Him. He would put His desires in man and man would follow them as if they were his own desires. In this you have the symbol of intercourse. A seed of desire brings forth fruit in action. It is a mutually agreed upon outcome.

When Eve accepted another seed (thought) from the Adversary of God, she produced rebellion. The thought was that God could not be trusted. He is withholding something. This was adultery and the wife was stolen.

At Jesus time the religion and its figurative writes were so misunderstood and corrupted that the system had to be swept away and a new system which expressed what the old was meant to do was established in its place. Now at the end of the world with the appearing of Christ, the human marriage relationship which was suppose to reflect the relationship of man to God, has to be swept away as well, because it too has been so misunderstood and corrupted.

So God is taking back his wife (humanity) from the one who stole her. This Adversary has so filled humanity with his seed thoughts, that man's thinking about God has become completely distorted, for we have the same nature and character of this husband of the soul. We have had no idea just how much we are loved and cared for.

So in this symbol. Two women were driven from their former marriages which were not an expression of what the true relationship to God looked like. The women were given the ability to walk away from their families and not look back. They were drawn to be with the One in Whom God was being expressed.

Michael told them both to go home and be good wives but they could not go against what was impelling their hearts.

The husbands had to relinquish their hold on them because the women were no longer abel to be brought back into the relationship by anything short of physical force. In just the same way, the Adversary has to willingly let us go when he sees that he can no longer get us to receive his thoughts any more. All our contracts and agreements with him are broken.

The bride now has only the true Husbands thoughts and is kept from the assaults of the former lover.

Hope this helps.

[snowychap]

So - in this parable, two members of your community (two Christians by your definition) are substituting for 'the Adversary', i.e. one who assaults his lover.

I wonder how it is that two sinless people can be equated to the being that is responsible for filling humanity with his sinful 'seed thoughts'.

The husbands had to relinquish their hold on them because the women were no longer abel to be brought back into the relationship by anything short of physical force. In just the same way, the Adversary has to willingly let us go when he sees that he can no longer get us to receive his thoughts any more.

I'm not sure that having to relinquish one's hold on something in this way is the same as doing it willingly.

Also, Jerry. I have seen this question asked on other sites more than once and mostly it surrounds a scriptural discourse on the definition of adultery, divorcement, etc.

(Sorry VB - didn't mean to undermine the value of your question. )

[Jerry]

Sorry friend if you took it that way. I have nothing in my heart that resonates with this thought about patronization you have brought up. If I have done something wrong, it is in ignorance. But I am very willing to say forgive me.

I take it that you are actually saying forgive me rather than just announcing your willingness to say so.

I am more than happy to forgive you but I would wonder whether I have the power to do that? I would have thought that you could only seek forgiveness from one source.

I would have to say that I am skeptical about the ignorance. Judging by the careful way in which you and your companions choose your words, I doubt that you are ignorant of the way people might construe anything you say or do.

If I had sinned by telling a lie, which indeed would be a sin, I would seek forgiveness from Him, however what I said is true, I don't lie. Yet I do believe I have an obligation to amend any problem or misunderstanding with another soul when that happens. I will admit I am rather clumsy when it comes to decorum, but I have no desire to protect my sorry self from exposure, on the contrary I invite it. If I have been inappropriate I will be the first to want to correct it.

There is that normal tendency in humanity to judge when you are offended. But your offense has no other bases than what you might have felt if you had written those words your self. I don't know of anything else I can do to convince you otherwise. I will be happy to leave the forum if you think I am lying. I would not want to violate any rules here any more than violate my conscience.

And I would add that I still consider this to have been an enjoyable experience and I have no ill feelings towards you or any others.

[carlitobrigante]

so Michael is 60? If he really is the messiah then its abit of an anti-climax? i thought the re-appearance of christ was meant to be something special. Not a 60 year old man having the time of his life being worshipped and having sex on tap with 50 odd followers on a ranch somewhere.

The first id heard of him was from this thread about the documentary and im sure the same goes for most of us here. Not really doing much to change the world is he? ok he's got a pretty ranch where the 50 of you are at peace and happy. Fair play, but he's not doing alot to spead his message / change the world is he?

im sure you'll just ignore my arguments like you ignored my previous posts. but still the having sex with sister in law and others bit sort of kills any sort of credibility in my eyes. Sexual relations outside of marriage, (with his sister in law of all people!) is expressively forbidden in the bible and coming out with the old chestnut 'god told me to do it' doesnt cut it im afraid. I see youve tried to explain it in the previous post but what youve written doesnt seem to make any sense to me. A parable is a story with a meaning. The only meaning i see in the story of michael is that if your 60 and getting old then tell people your the messiah and sad, blind, trusting people will offer to jump into bed with you.

Terry please though, on a serious note, prepare yourself mentally that theres a chance he isnt the true messiah. whether he thinks he is but is deluded, or whether he is just a con man is nether here nor there. Make sure you build some sort of life outside of this group. When/ if this cult falls apart (as they all do) you dont want to look back and see how youve wasted years of your life . Keep an open mind and look after yourself.

[futumtch]

One of the reasons people think we will blindly drink poison and kill ourselves is the wonderful spin doctors of our day. We are told David Koresh and the Branch Davidians killed themselves those many years ago. If you did some research, you would find out this is not true. Films like “The Waco Lie” and “Rules of Engagement” clearly demonstrate the Davidians were murdered by a cult who does not like people to live in a free manner. There is also a lot of controvery about the real events that happened at Jonestown, the home of the koolaid story.

Think about it; the Davidians were held up in their own compound and were a long ways from any other neighbors. The government could have sat there for years and waited and watched. But because they are the true cult, and claiming to save the children (the same uproar we hear), they (U.S. Gov.) went in and torched the place to the ground.

I can accept that the handleing of the Waco debacle was the major cause of so many deaths. As one great late comic noted: "...yet I've seen with my own eyes footage of a Bradley Tank shooting fire into the compound".

So what was the deal with the Heaven's Gate group? Is Jesus a regular user of spaceships hiding behind comets?

[mjmooney]

I can't say that I have done a lot of study, but when it has come my way I have relished it. For so many years the creation vs evolution debate seem to always go to the evolutionists. But in the last decade or two, things have swung the other way. The evidences for creation and God are fascinating to me.

Swung the OTHER way? Evidence? What Are you ON? (Don't answer that. I know).

When I was a kid I was quite disenchanted with school.

Well, that sure shows.

Now I love to learn new things.

Could have fooled me.

Forgive me if I am going off into what some might think is la la land.

You are forgiven.

I just stumbled onto this thread when I noticed it had got to 26 pages. Staggering.

[TerryCzap]

All quotes are from carlitobrigante,

Im sure you'll just ignore my arguments like you ignored my previous posts.

If I recall I answered most of your questions previously. I don’t bother trying to answer mockery, pure nonsense or something that has been answered 50 times already - I’m not a machine.

So Michael is 60? If he really is the messiah then its abit of an anti-climax? i thought the re-appearance of christ was meant to be something special. Not a 60 year old man having the time of his life being worshipped and having sex on tap with 50 odd followers on a ranch somewhere.

I don’t see an honest question here, only mockery. If it is honest, then you can find the answer in this thread elsewhere as it has already been dealt with.

but still the having sex with sister in law and others bit sort of kills any sort of credibility in my eyes.

As has been said already; Michael had a brief sexual encounter with a divorced consenting woman. This was done to offend the self-righteous souls who think they are holy.

Sexual relations outside of marriage, (with his sister in law of all people!) is expressively forbidden in the bible and coming out with the old chestnut 'god told me to do it' doesnt cut it im afraid. I see youve tried to explain it in the previous post but what youve written doesnt seem to make any sense to me. A parable is a story with a meaning. The only meaning i see in the story of michael is that if your 60 and getting old then tell people your the messiah and sad, blind, trusting people will offer to jump into bed with you.

Since you refer to the bible, it implies you must you believe in it. If that is the case; should a man obey God? Should Abraham have told God “forget it”, when he was asked to sacrifice his son? If Abraham is considered a “holy man” for obeying God, why should Michael be considered an immoral idiot for obeying God?

If you don’t believe in the bible is inspired, why refer to it?

Terry please though, on a serious note, prepare yourself mentally that theres a chance he isnt the true messiah. whether he thinks he is but is deluded, or whether he is just a con man is nether here nor there. Make sure you build some sort of life outside of this group. When/ if this cult falls apart (as they all do) you dont want to look back and see how youve wasted years of your life . Keep an open mind and look after yourself.

I am prepared for your central banking system system to have such a collapse, it will make the worst financial crisis the modern world has ever experienced look like absolute prosperity. I am very prepared to watch your world get blown to complete smithereens in a nuclear holocaust the likes of which men have imagined since the A-bomb was created. I am prepared to be taken to my heavenly home, for God is not a liar like the men of the world.

If none of this happens, I am prepared to live my life as God tells me to. I’ve had 25 years of experience in trusting my Father, I think I will stick with Him.

[villab0y]

So God has told michael to sleep with these women.

Did God tell him why?

I just don't understand why God would tell someone to sin.

I think this has been expained a couple hundred times. If God tells someone to do somethig, is it a sin?

This is a test to see who can hear God's voice and who cannot.

But does having sexual realtions with someone you are not married to make it a sin?

Lets say for instance, Michael claims that God told him to kill evryone in your little village except you.

Would you accept that this was Gods word?

[futumtch]

VB, that last post of yours was your 6666th. You devil you.

[villab0y]

VB, that last post of yours was your 6666th. You devil you.

:evil:

[Mesha]

I would have to say that I am skeptical about the ignorance. Judging by the careful way in which you and your companions choose your words, I doubt that you are ignorant of the way people might construe anything you say or do.

Your statements and use of the word "careful" may be giving us more credit than we are due. We are not primed or coached to be "careful" and protect ourselves when communicating with each other, and that may spill over to those we communicate with that are not part of our community. Though we come from a variety of professions, educational and social backgrounds, it has been many years since the majority of us have had to deal in the hardened, faithless, skeptical world you live in which often misconstrues information. We have been taught to speak openly, honestly and from our heart. This we do, and thus many of us do not make great arguers, defenders or banterers.

Let me ask you, if you were trying to communicate/educate someone regarding the more technical aspects of your profession or interests, and they were completely ignorant of what you were involved in, wouldn't you attempt to present the information in the most understandable light possible, knowing they are interested, but totally unfamiliar with the terminology, technology or theories behind what you were trying to explain, so they could receive the best understanding of the information you were trying to relate?

Our words, though maybe not politically correct to suit some, are truthful and we try to share our heart with those we communicate with. Snowychap, would it be possible to simply look for and receive what Jerry's heart is trying to share with you instead of picking his words apart?

[dundeevilla]

Terry, I notice you've not answered my previous question about whether Michael's son (Jeff?) was actually divorced from his wife at the time Michael and her "consumated" the marriage at the behest of God.

You claimed they were divorced at that time. Can you just clarify that please?

[rjw63]

^^^Are you another member of the NM Strong City?

Our site is surely blessed!

[Mesha]

Are you another member of the NM Strong City?

Yes.

[rjw63]

Are you another member of the NM Strong City?

Yes.

Can I come for a visit? I promise I'll be discreet

[dundeevilla]

Are you another member of the NM Strong City?

Yes.

Can I come for a visit? I promise I'll be discreet

Just say God sent you Rob, and you can fill yer boots. They're suckers for that kinda talk.