Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[magnkarl]

50 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

If true, this is an interesting video and commentary. 

It's said to be a T90m which is Russia's 2nd best/most modern tank. 

It's said to have met with an AT4 which is a light anti tank weapon from Sweden. 

 

 

 

I'll do you one better. Here's one getting taken out by what looks to be a mine. Even our AFV's can withstand a mine.

 

I'm assuming India is well pleased having bought such quality hardware.

[avfc1982am]

37 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I'll do you one better. Here's one getting taken out by what looks to be a mine. Even our AFV's can withstand a mine.

 

I'm assuming India is well pleased having bought such quality hardware.

Ennio Morricone will be spinning in his grave listening to what they've done to his music. Bloody gringos!

[Mandy Lifeboats]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

I'll do you one better. Here's one getting taken out by what looks to be a mine. Even our AFV's can withstand a mine.

 

I'm assuming India is well pleased having bought such quality hardware.

Thanks for the video @magnkarl

I have seen your video portrayed as the same tank in my video but shown a little earlier when it took the hit. 

However it got taken out, its good to see.  But I have no idea if it's actually a T90m.  

[bickster]

2 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Here's one getting taken out by what looks to be a mine

Nah, if you look closely at the start there's another explosion to the left inside the woods. It's been hit by something other than a mine and whatever it was had another go for the second tank but missed and hit the woods instead

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[magnkarl]

Yesterday during lunch some of the cretins from the delivery branch at work started discussing this conflict, and seemed to have been completely brainwashed by the Elon Musk\Chomsky\Carlsson view that this is somehow Ukraine's fault for not agreeing to giving half of their country away. As it so happens, one of my colleagues is married to a Ukrainian and things started heating up. The whole thing escalated to the point where one of the ones that started it used RIA and various Facebook groups quoting Veteran's daily as some sort of true source for anything, and was then slapped down verbally by another colleague who never says anything really.

'Is there any more air left in your mother's basement? There seems to be more and more of you down there since the pandemic. Has it gone out of fashion to think or have a moral compass?'

In either case, Russian paid troll-farms and social media influence seems to have corrupted an awful lot of (and excuse me here if I'm stereotyping) single white males in the West. The kind of people that struggle with other things like holding down a job, low education, poverty, drugs etc.

[villa89]

24 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Russian paid troll-farms and social media influence seems to have corrupted an awful lot 

The west have been way too slow to realise the influence china/the Middle East/Russia are having on the world by bots/paid trolls/online shills etc. It's absolutely rampant. Even in Ireland the far left basically own the internet, anything said against their views will be met with a barrage of attacks from paid accounts, bot accounts etc. There's a good argument that Russia got Trump elected president. 

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, villa89 said:

The west have been way too slow to realise the influence china/the Middle East/Russia are having on the world by bots/paid trolls/online shills etc. It's absolutely rampant. Even in Ireland the far left basically own the internet, anything said against their views will be met with a barrage of attacks from paid accounts, bot accounts etc. There's a good argument that Russia got Trump elected president. 

The guys here aren't really far lefties though (there's some of these too), but rather hard brexit goons with nothing to do but spend hours and hours in echo-chambers on facebook and 8chan all day. There's the obvious people who call themselves hard lefties who are Putin shills like Galloway and Milne, but these guys aren't generally who seems to have corrupted the two fellows at work at least. They seem to be more along the qanon, incel, everyone hates white males, women won't touch us, yay for authoritarian regiemes, Andrew Tate-kind of people. They are easy targets for Russia, just like the anti-vax movement is largely fulled by the same forces.

Edited January 17, 2023 by magnkarl

[avfc1982am]

42 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Yesterday during lunch some of the cretins from the delivery branch at work started discussing this conflict, and seemed to have been completely brainwashed by the Elon Musk\Chomsky\Carlsson view that this is somehow Ukraine's fault for not agreeing to giving half of their country away. As it so happens, one of my colleagues is married to a Ukrainian and things started heating up. The whole thing escalated to the point where one of the ones that started it used RIA and various Facebook groups quoting Veteran's daily as some sort of true source for anything, and was then slapped down verbally by another colleague who never says anything really.

'Is there any more air left in your mother's basement? There seems to be more and more of you down there since the pandemic. Has it gone out of fashion to think or have a moral compass?'

In either case, Russian paid troll-farms and social media influence seems to have corrupted an awful lot of (and excuse me here if I'm stereotyping) single white males in the West. The kind of people that struggle with other things like holding down a job, low education, poverty, drugs etc.

That last bit is harsh imo. There are individuals from all walks of life being brainwashed into either being pro Russian or Ukrainian for a multitude of reasons. You see just as many ill informed people from upper and middle classes that are under the influence of one entity or another due to the media outlets they gather info from. Maybe most of the conspiracy theorists come from the lower classes due to not trusting their particular government, but that in itself is nothing new imo.

The idea that anyone in the categories you mentioned are invested in Russia or Ukraine is a little extreme thinking. I would gather non of these groups really give 2 shits what happens in Eastern Europe and that most of the media bollox comes from those a little more opinionated, a little more comfortable in life, just not having much of a clue as to what their opinion is based on because it isn't really that important in their bubble. 

I brought this up last week with regards to Twitter and the amount of pro Russian posts, there is an awful lot more pro Russian propaganda but I think the majority of it is centred around the US and their own economic and political issues. American seeing potential corruption with Biden off the back of Ukraine is deflecting from the real issue of Russian aggression. I think Europe itself is pretty steadfast as far as the civilian populations are concerned. It's a little closer to home for a start.  

[avfc1982am]

 

[magnkarl]

34 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

That last bit is harsh imo. There are individuals from all walks of life being brainwashed into either being pro Russian or Ukrainian for a multitude of reasons. You see just as many ill informed people from upper and middle classes that are under the influence of one entity or another due to the media outlets they gather info from. Maybe most of the conspiracy theorists come from the lower classes due to not trusting their particular government, but that in itself is nothing new imo.

The idea that anyone in the categories you mentioned are invested in Russia or Ukraine is a little extreme thinking. I would gather non of these groups really give 2 shits what happens in Eastern Europe and that most of the media bollox comes from those a little more opinionated, a little more comfortable in life, just not having much of a clue as to what their opinion is based on because it isn't really that important in their bubble. 

I brought this up last week with regards to Twitter and the amount of pro Russian posts, there is an awful lot more pro Russian propaganda but I think the majority of it is centred around the US and their own economic and political issues. American seeing potential corruption with Biden off the back of Ukraine is deflecting from the real issue of Russian aggression. I think Europe itself is pretty steadfast as far as the civilian populations are concerned. It's a little closer to home for a start.  

In my humble opinion, a lot of the people that seem overly keen on Russia's genocidal policies are also people who were anti-vax, MAGA-Qanon, 'red pill' Jordan Peterson is our saviour incel types, or just downright conspiracy nuts. I guess Putin has invested heavily in influencing said groups to cause a lot of dissent in the West.

It isn't a stretch to say that Qanon has the heaviest hold on white lower class Americans, and I'm sure that same goes for the other categories as well.

Edited January 17, 2023 by magnkarl

[avfc1982am]

 

[avfc1982am]

Sickening.

[bobzy]

24 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

In my humble opinion, a lot of the people that seem overly keen on Russia's genocidal policies are also people who were anti-vax, MAGA-Qanon, 'red pill' Jordan Peterson is our saviour incel types, or just downright conspiracy nuts. I guess Putin has invested heavily in influencing said groups to cause a lot of dissent in the West.

It isn't a stretch to say that Qanon has the heaviest hold on white lower class Americans, and I'm sure that same goes for the other categories as well.

Definitely a similar pattern regarding people I know.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

The problem with Russian Supporters and conspiracy theorists (in general)  is that there is always some truth in their information.

 I support Ukraine. But there was problem with neo-Nazis.  Just like there is a problem in many countries.  A percentage of the population did want to be Russian.   The Ukrainians did shell civilian areas in Donbass. 

 Q-Anon is another perfect example.   Jeffrey Epstein was running a paedophile ring for the rich and famous.   It was undoubtedly covered up by powerful people.   Certain powerful people do seem to have escaped prosecution by using their power, influence, money and the inability to sweat.  

 Its also hard to argue that the West is incredibly hypocritical.   The US and UK did start the Second Gulf War based upon a complete lie that Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq were a threat.  The US and UK never sanctioned Israel for their annexation of the Gollan heights.  The US was willing to start WW3 if Russia sited nukes in Cuba despite having sited their own nukes in Turkey.     

I can understand why the average Russian thinks that the US provoked this war and Putin is actually stopping WW3 by intervening in Ukraine.   I don't agree.  But I can understand.   

 

  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats
speeling mishsteaks.

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

The problem with Russian Supporters and conspiracy theorists (in general)  is that there is always some truth in their information.

 I support Ukraine. But there was problem with neo-Nazis.  Just like there is a problem in many countries.  A percentage of the population did want to be Russian.   The Ukrainians did shell civilian areas in Donbass. 

 Q-Anon is another perfect example.   Jeffrey Epstein was running a paedophile ring for the rich and famous.   It was undoubtedly covered up by powerful people.   Certain powerful people do seem to have escaped prosecution by using their power, influence, money and the inability to sweat.  

 Its also hard to argue that the West is incredibly hypocritical.   The US and UK did start the Second Gulf War based upon a complete lie that Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq were a threat.  The US and UK never sanctioned Israel for their annexation of the Gollan heights.  The US was willing to start WW3 if Russia sited nukes in Cuba despite having sited their own nukes in Turkey.     

I can understand why the average Russian thinks that the US provoked this war and Putin is actually stopping WW3 by intervening in Ukraine.   I don't agree.  But I can understand.   

 

  

From what I've managed to read, a total of 6 civilians died in DPR controlled areas from shelling during the first bouts of this 'conflict'. It's a reach to call it anything but what it is, a sad effect of a defensive war where Russia's 'green little men' invaded their neighbour and annexed big parts of their country. It isn't the genocide or the nazi-rape-camps with US bio-labs that the nutters are talking about.

If the argument was that the people of the Donbas needed protecting then surely they need protecting now that the reported number of dead from Russian shelling is over 1000 just in Donetsk?

The Nazi-argument has been debunked so many times that it can't be counted anymore. Yes there were nome neo-nazis when Azov was founded around the football clubs, but compared to say the amount of nazis in Moscow it isn't even close. Ukraine is one of the countries in Europe with the least issues with neo-nazism, while Russia is on top together with Brazil and the US.

We all know Iraq was bad, but we also almost all showed our disdain for the war. Never has there been more pressure in Europe to end a war than the Second Gulf War, Bush was mocked and in deep trouble over it. Saddam may not have had wmds, but he'd gassed Kurds and opposition en masse for years, it's not like he was the democratically elected government in Kyiv. Russia is invading a democratic nation, killing civilians with no regard for the rules of war, you can't really compare the two. It's whataboutism.

Edited January 17, 2023 by magnkarl

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

The problem with Russian Supporters and conspiracy theorists (in general)  is that there is always some truth in their information.

 I support Ukraine. But there was problem with neo-Nazis.  Just like there is a problem in many countries.  A percentage of the population did want to be Russian.   The Ukrainians did shell civilian areas in Donbass. 

 Q-Anon is another perfect example.   Jeffrey Epstein was running a paedophile ring for the rich and famous.   It was undoubtedly covered up by powerful people.   Certain powerful people do seem to have escaped prosecution by using their power, influence, money and the inability to sweat.  

 Its also hard to argue that the West is incredibly hypocritical.   The US and UK did start the Second Gulf War based upon a complete lie that Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq were a threat.  The US and UK never sanctioned Israel for their annexation of the Gollan heights.  The US was willing to start WW3 if Russia sited nukes in Cuba despite having sited their own nukes in Turkey.     

I can understand why the average Russian thinks that the US provoked this war and Putin is actually stopping WW3 by intervening in Ukraine.   I don't agree.  But I can understand.   

 

  

Zelenskyy was also named in the Pandora papers as having off shore bank accounts in tax havens, along with his key presidential aids.
Biden’s kid was working for a Ukrainian oligarch operating a gas conglomerate.
The US military were in Ukrainian as far back as 2015 providing military support and training.

There is plenty of grist for the conspiracy mill.

That’s why both sides in a war feel like they are ‘fighting the good fight’. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by LondonLax

[Mandy Lifeboats]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

From what I've managed to read, a total of 6 civilians died in DPR controlled areas from shelling during the first bouts of this 'conflict'. It's a reach to call it anything but what it is, a sad effect of a defensive war where Russia's 'green little men' invaded their neighbour and annexed big parts of their country. It isn't the genocide or the nazi-rape-camps with US bio-labs that the nutters are talking about.

If the argument was that the people of the Donbas needed protecting then surely they need protecting now that the reported number of dead from Russian shelling is over 1000 just in Donetsk?

The Nazi-argument has been debunked so many times that it can't be counted anymore. Yes there were nome neo-nazis when Azov was founded around the football clubs, but compared to say the amount of nazis in Moscow it isn't even close. Ukraine is one of the countries in Europe with the least issues with neo-nazism, while Russia is on top together with Brazil and the US.

We all know Iraq was bad, but we also almost all showed our disdain for the war. Never has there been more pressure in Europe to end a war than the Second Gulf War, Bush was mocked and in deep trouble over it. Saddam may not have had wmds, but he'd gassed Kurds and opposition en masse for years, it's not like he was the democratically elected government in Kyiv. Russia is invading a democratic nation, killing civilians with no regard for the rules of war, you can't really compare the two. It's whataboutism.

I agree with you. 

My point was simply what you have confirmed above.  There is a grain of truth amongst all the propaganda.  

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Just an aside……..

One of the things I often read from Russian supporters is that the US and UK have ADMITTED to having armed forces operating in Ukraine at the moment.

Again……it’s a grain of truth.  

Both the US and UK have embassies in Kyiv.  All embassies include military attaches and military personnel.  
 
The UK admits to a military presence in Ukraine.  Russia admits to a military presence in the UK.  

I
 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats
Speeling mishsteaks

[avfc1982am]