National ID cards - good idea?

[Gringo]

Falling apart at the seams

Companies abandon ID card project

Two prominent companies have pulled out of the procurement process for the controversial multibillion pound identity card programme amid growing concerns that the government is planning to delay the roll-out of the project.

The Financial Times has learnt that the IT services company Accenture and the defence company BAE Systems have decided not to pursue contracts linked to the biometric identity card system, with IT experts warning that some suppliers are growing increasingly frustrated with the government's indecision.

The Home Office said last night that the move by the two companies was the result of a "competitive dialogue process" with potential suppliers ahead of the announcement of a short-list of companies who later this spring will be invited to tender for contracts.

"We believe we are still on track for a framework agreement, a contract which creates a list of pre-qualified suppliers, along with a set of agreed contractual terms," the Home Office said.

Accenture said a "mixture of political and commercial reasons" had led to its decision not to bid. BAE Systems was unavailable for comment last night.

According to the Home Office, Fujitsu Services, CSC, EDS, IBM, Steria and Thales are still interested in the identity card project.

The companies said that while the government may delay some parts of it, such as the issue of biometric cards to UK citizens, there would still be scope for other work in the near term, such as constructing the database to house the identity data.

The Home Office's Identity and Passport Service, which is running the scheme, aims to have a list of five prime suppliers in place by May. However, the Home Office confirmed on Tuesday that the government was considering a delay in the main roll-out of ID cards to British citizens.

Leaked Home Office documents show a revised strategy in which the issuing of significant volumes of ID cards alongside a new generation of passports will begin in 2012, two years later than previously planned.

Last night the Home Office confirmed a further leak

suggesting that smaller volumes of ID cards should first be issued from 2010 onwards to young people to "assist" them in opening up their first bank accounts as well as to individuals employed in "positions of trust", such as teachers and social workers.

The British Bankers' Association said that it had not been involved in any discussion on the use of ID cards by young people.

"This has come like a bolt from the blue," it said.

Meanwhile, Damian Green, shadow immigration minister, said last night that the leaked documents showed that the government was engaged in an "outrageous plan" which was "staggering from shambles to shambles".

Mr Green said: "They are trying to introduce ID cards by stealth by making them necessary if you want to work for the government, take out a student loan or open a student bank account.

"This is blackmail and a desperate attempt to bolster a failing policy."

Lies, stealth and a lack of support from the supplying companies or the users.

[BOF]

Have to dream up another foreign attack with some added national security infiltration to drum up public support for ID cards then - perhaps integrate abuse of the lost personal records, perrfick

[Gringo]

Most say ID cards will fail, report finds

Fewer than a quarter of people think that ID cards will have any effect on preventing illegal immigration and foiling terrorists, a report has found.

Just 24 per cent of those surveyed in a poll by the Government said that the scheme would make it more difficult for illegal immigrants to work in Britain.

Only 27 per cent of the 2,000 people surveyed found it "very believable" that ID cards would disrupt terrorist plots and just 29 per cent said they thought they would help foil terrorism.

The report, carried out by the Home Office's Identity and Passport Service, said: "Across the board, full buy-in and belief in the scheme's ability to deliver the proposed benefits is weak."

According to the figures most people also rejected the claim that ID cards would prevent underage drinking and smoking.

The report insists that the majority of the British public still believes the scheme will have some benefits.

However, critics pointed out that the poll was carried out before the Government fiascos over the loss of data at the end of last year.

They suggested that confidence in the proposed ID cards would now be dented even further.

Phil Booth, of the NO2ID campaign group, said: "After five years of trying to get people to like ID cards, even the Home Office's own research says that only 1 in 4 believes they will do what they are claimed to.

"And this is supposed to be positive spin. It's both tragedy and farce."

Identity cards 'useless in fight against terrorism'

Mass fingerprinting, biometric passports, identity cards and international identity databases will not protect Britain and other European countries from terrorists or criminals.

This startling admission comes in a leaked European Commission report prepared for Home Secretary Jacqui Smith and other EU Home Affairs Ministers.

The report undermines Gordon Brown's claims about the need for controversial new passports and identity cards to protect the country from terror attacks.

It raises new questions about the true purpose of Government databases, which will store intimate details of everyone in Britain, including their picture, fingerprints and confidential personal information.

The EU report, obtained by The Mail on Sunday, says most people behind terror attacks in the UK and Europe were living in the EU legally and so would not be affected by increased security measures.

It says: "None of the policy options contribute markedly to reducing terrorism or serious crime.

"In view of the latest terrorist acts in the area of the EU... the perpetrators have mainly been EU citizens or foreigners residing and living here with official permits."

But it does say that the new technology could save money by using automated checks at borders.

[Risso]

They should get Richard Scudamore to think up ways of making them more acceptable to the public....ah hang on....

[drat01]

At Heathrow airport now for internal flights you have to supply Passport, finger prints and have photo taken - will that stop anyone flying?

[Jon]

At Heathrow airport now for internal flights you have to supply Passport, finger prints and have photo taken - will that stop anyone flying?

might do for someone who's had both arms amputated :winkold:

[tonyh29]

At Heathrow airport now for internal flights you have to supply Passport, finger prints and have photo taken - will that stop anyone flying?

They've insisted on some form of photo ID for years ,luckily the photo driving license has always been deemed acceptable in the past , finger prints is a bit extreme and i probably would object as I don't think anyone has that right ..having said that i had to subject to fingerprinting to get into the US , but then i don't live there and so , what option do i have ..

I do live in the Uk though and as such should be free to travel anywhere within the UK without being subjected to fingerprinting

[Gringo]

Stealth != right

Civil liberties groups unhappy at Heathrow fingerprinting

03.02.08

Civil liberties campaigners have accused BAA of sneaking in mandatory fingerprinting of passengers on domestic routes without proper consultation. Heathrow Airport has introduced compulsory fingerprinting and photographic profiling of passengers on domestic routes ahead of the opening of its fifth terminal late next month.

As previously reported, because Terminal 5 is effectively on large lounge without segregation for international and domestic passengers, the move is designed to stop passengers who have arrived on international flights swapping their boarding card with a passenger on a domestic flight and entering the UK without proper documentation.

The new scheme works by passengers giving their print and photograph as they pass through X-ray equipment, before their details are verified using the information when they reach their flight's boarding gate. However, it has already caused disquiet among some passengers who were handed leaflets warning they would be barred from their flights unless they co-operated.

Anti-ID card campaigners have demanded to know why no public announcement was made and fear compulsory fingerprinting is smoothing the path for the controversial scheme's introduction UK-wide. Dr Gus Hosein, of the London School of Economics who has studied the impact of technology on civil liberties, claimed the government is 'softening up' people, particularly the young, by making fingerprinting appear acceptable in the run up to ID cards.

Dr Hosein compared the scheme to those run by the Nazis as part of the Jewish persecution,. He said: 'Britain is the first country in the democratic world to introduce this scheme as mandatory for flights within its borders. There would be a revolution if it happened in the US.'

He said the scheme doesn't breach the data-protection laws because it takes only partial data, rather than the individual's full profile, and is destroyed within 24 hours. However, he added: 'Although it doesn't contravene the law, it breaks the law of humanity which is that you don't fingerprint innocent people.'

A BAA spokesman said: We have been trialling the scheme for three or four months, but we have started to carry it out on a mandatory basis ahead of the opening of Terminal 5.' He said the data was destroyed at the end of each day and there was 'no chance' it would be passed on to other authorities, including the police.

[drat01]

At Heathrow airport now for internal flights you have to supply Passport, finger prints and have photo taken - will that stop anyone flying?

They've insisted on some form of photo ID for years ,luckily the photo driving license has always been deemed acceptable in the past , finger prints is a bit extreme and i probably would object as I don't think anyone has that right ..having said that i had to subject to fingerprinting to get into the US , but then i don't live there and so , what option do i have ..

I do live in the Uk though and as such should be free to travel anywhere within the UK without being subjected to fingerprinting

So Tony would it stop you flying?

[drat01]

..............

Anti-ID card campaigners have demanded to know why no public announcement was made ............]

Wrong - was announced and got various emails about it from BA, BAA and other airlines

[Gringo]

..............

Anti-ID card campaigners have demanded to know why no public announcement was made ............]

Wrong - was announced and got various emails about it from BA, BAA and other airlines

Indeed they did. But seeing as that is the only thing wrong you pick out, one must assume the rest of the article is correct.

[drat01]

Nah couldn't be arsed to reply to the rest

[tonyh29]

So Tony would it stop you flying?

well i don't really do any domestic flying (newcastle away the other year was the last domestic flight i did) so at present the answer would be No ..guess if something came up I'd have to look at if i wanted to drive or take the train ..neither of which really appeal

I'm on the iris scheme in the UK , i don't have a problem with something like that ,but that was voluntry and I had a choice , this current finger printing scheme just seems to be another step down a road we don't want to go ..

Wrong - was announced and got various emails about it from BA, BAA and other airlines

well i must admit I tend to partly ignore emails that hit my inbox unsolicitored so you may well be right but i'd say 100% i didn't receive one from BA who I'm a silver card holder with and so do receive a lot of notifications from ..nor did i receive one from Virgin either ..I may have got one from Malev but buggered if i could read it !! :-)

[drat01]

Im on the Iris scheme and its great as you waltz past the queues at passport control (only to wait while Manc baggage handlers rifle through your bags!)

I'm Gold on BA and I got one and my colleague is Silver and he did. I also got one from BMI, KLM and I think Virgin but I wouldn't money on it. I would imagine they may not as they dont run internal flight's do they?

The thing is yesterday morning it added a few mins to the walkthrough transfers, none of the non-UK nationals moaned about it - well not in English.

[snowychap]

..............

Anti-ID card campaigners have demanded to know why no public announcement was made ............]

Wrong - was announced and got various emails about it from BA, BAA and other airlines

To whom and where was it announced?

The fact that you, as a customer, received various e-mails about it doesn't make it 'public'.

[drat01]

On the BA web site, on the BAA web site, on places like the Times, etc etc

How much more public would you like it?

[b23avfc]

Some kind of fingerprint based id system would be better than id cards which are very easily forged no matter what they try. Whatever they do will be beaten by the crooks but at least fingerprinting or even dna based id would be a bit more reliable. Call me backwards but I noticed laptops with fingerprint recognition built in and that was in bloomin Comet so the technology must be cheap enough to develop already. At least cutting off fingers is a little less likely to happen than someone making a card with a fancy printer and scanner pumping out a bunch of fake id's..

[snowychap]

On the BA web site, on the BAA web site, on places like the Times, etc etc

How much more public would you like it?

Well as someone who tries to take in as much news as I possibly can via whatever medium - I hadn't seen this until Gringo's post.

So all I can say is that to my mind it wasn't publicised - though it might well have been announced publicly.

[tonyh29]

well i had a quick look on news agency and paper web sites and found barely a mention

this bit was interesting though from the independant

Passengers who prefer not to undergo this procedure can fly from Terminal 1 – which still has a domestic area – on BMI, or choose other airports in the London area.

implying that it was only at Terminal 5 where you would have to undergo fingerprinting ..and yet BA's web site clearly refers to terminal 1 ..indeed the news story on BA's web site is not obvious unless you knew what to look for being under the news story "transferring to domestic flights at heathrow Terminal one" ..key word being transferring .. if I was flying Heathrow to Newcastle I would not in fact be transferring but would still be finger printed

[drat01]

Terminlal 1 is where it is - That's where I came through yesterday en-route Jo'berg to Manchester. Term 5 aint open yet

And as for the news - just do a quick search on fingerprint heathrow and you will see this has been in the public domain for some time

Anyway that's way OT - back to the scaremongering and science fiction