National ID cards - good idea?

[Richard]

id cards? No thanks

[LancsVillan]

If they was free then yeah i would have one but some of the prices that was been thrown about 60-300??? No thanks you can get a passport for 40ish (thats how much they was when i last applied for one untill the doctor wanted 20pound to sign the back of my photo told him to jog on!)

Passports are just over £70 now

cheers for the reminder mine runs out in November...

[Risso]

I've seen lots of attempts to disporove the arguments against having ID cards, I've yet to see a single good reason for having them.

[zippy178]

I've seen lots of attempts to disporove the arguments against having ID cards, I've yet to see a single good reason for having them.

I know plenty of good arguments for fake IDs :winkold:

But on the topic, the main point of ID cards is purely for security purposes, I can see no other practical reason for needing them. If they are forced upon us, as the British public, then I feel it's just another definitive step towards a police state. Another chance for observation by a government worried about security (justifiably though I believe).

I'm not saying I agree with them, but can anybody see a better security measure that would help the country in place of ID cards?

[Santa_Rosa]

I voted no, and feel even more that it was the right way to vote after reading that essay. Fascinating stuff that has really made me think about it in a new light. I particularly like his point around 'breathing room'

Anything that lets the government, or anyone I don't want to know for that matter, know more about the way I live my life is a bad thing IMO. The fact that I live it perfectly legally is neither here nor there. As yer man says, privacy is much more than that.

When you consider the expense and the fact that, as far as I can see, it will make little real difference to the 'War on Terror' (that favourite phrase of the scaremongerer) makes it an even bigger no for me.

Just the thought of a copper stopping me in the street and demanding "Papers please!" (I can't even say it without putting on a cod, Herr Flick-style German accent)sends a chill down my spine.

[tonyh29]

What a strange comparison Tony, inferring that on one hand we were becoming a communist state

as usual Ian your wider of the mark than a Savo attempt at goal

I was showing the lesson that History has taught us , or in your case the lesson that history clearly hasn't taught us .. I never even came close to inferring the Uk would become a communist state

Like your arguements for Brown , Blair ,Prescott et al ..you've yet to actuall give a positive for their existance ..so we await your reasoned arguements on why ID cards will make the world a safer place

[Santa_Rosa]

so we await your reasoned arguements on why ID cards will make the world a safer place

The only thing I can think of is it will mean that everyone, having shelled out £300 or whatever, will be too broke to go out and do any terrorising. Everyone will have stop in and watch Emmerdale (Farm) which, as we all know, contains subliminal controlling references hidden deep in dialogue between the Dingles and Betty.

[drat01]

Police say 60% of people stopped give false information.

[tonyh29]

Police say 60% of people stopped give false information.

so of all the reasons you could give , you go for something which is estimated to cost £1.73m a year in police time ...

the estimated annual cost of identy theft and fraud in the UK is £1.72 BILLION and you give an arguement for £1.73 m of it !!

come on i've given you some help with the 1.72 billion , convince us , Why should we carry an ID card ..

[drat01]

Ha ha ha Tony - I didn't realise your Daily Mail subscription was so up to date

So you are honestly saying that people giving false info just to police only accounts for such a small amount. Hmm let me think, uninsured drivers, on the run criminals etc etc etc

And I'm confused now so you are saying that ID theft causes a cost of 1.72 billion to who? and hang on if we can tighten ID fraud could we just reduce that figure.

Go on convince me

[blandy]

Police say 60% of people stopped give false information.

Even accepting this to be the case, to reduce this, carrying your card would need to be compulsory.

"papier bitte - arbeit macht frei"

[Risso]

Police say 60% of people stopped give false information.

And as it won't be compulsory to carry it with you (initially at least) that will help how exactly?

[drat01]

Police say 60% of people stopped give false information.

And as it won't be compulsory to carry it with you (initially at least) that will help how exactly?

Ahem the thread is good idea or not

[drat01]

ID theft a brief outline of what it costs the country

http://www.identity-theft.org.uk/ID%20fraud%20table.pdf

[tonyh29]

Ha ha ha Tony - I didn't realise your Daily Mail subscription was so up to date

I've never met someone so consitantly weak in putting their case across .. you presented a fact , it was shown for the dross that it was , come back with a stronger case , don't resort to weak daily mail retorts .. I don't read the daily mail anymore than you read head in the sand today

So you are honestly saying that people giving false info just to police only accounts for such a small amount. Hmm let me think, uninsured drivers, on the run criminals etc etc etc

You stated 60% of people gave false names to the police as your argument ..and i put the figure on that amount for you ... uninsured drivers etc is a totally different arguement , but one that you didn't state in your case

and now you quote the same source as me in one of your later posts ,now doesn't that make your daily mail jibe look silly

[Risso]

ID theft a brief outline of what it costs the country

http://www.identity-theft.org.uk/ID%20fraud%20table.pdf

And ID cards would stop a fraction of that I suspect. The biggest proportion of that total (a total which is "vague" at best) is made of credit card fraud, ie people using cards that aren't theirs. How would an ID card stop somebody from buying goods fraudulently using a stolen or skimmed card?

[blandy]

ID theft a brief outline of what it costs the country

http://www.identity-theft.org.uk/ID%20fraud%20table.pdf

So the retail industry gets defrauded, but the measures which the Gov't want to take (not industry) are paid for by, er, me. Hmmm.

And the insurance industry....

And telecoms....

And Banks (money laundering)

And then there's the Gov't. The actual cost to the Gov't is nowhere near the equivalent of the cost to introduce the scheme. A tiny fraction. And then there's the costs to maintain the scheme and then there's the issue of whether it will actually work.

whatever body put up that chart has hardly helped the case for ID cards. Especially when considering who's going to be paying.

[drat01]

The thing is Pete when those people lose money due to fraud the cost is transferred to Joe Public, plus individuals (not listed there) also lose significantly.

Don't forget too ID theft is just one part of the whole set of things

Anyway someone found any of those civil liberties we are supposed to be losing?

[bickster]

The thing is Pete when those people lose money due to fraud the cost is transferred to Joe Public, plus individuals (not listed there) also lose significantly.

Don't forget too ID theft is just one part of the whole set of things

Anyway someone found any of those civil liberties we are supposed to be losing?

So this way the public pays twice because it won't stop the fraud and we have to pay for the cards too?

Right that seems fair :roll:

[drat01]

No Bicks that is just wrong and yoiu know it - despite your rolly eyes type thing