TomC

To quote myself from halftime in the match thread... Like I said. We did everything right in the second half but finish. Zrinjski were heroic in their defending and Maric was outstanding for them in goal. Credit to them. We were patient and did not relent. Credit to us. We should have had a breakthrough earlier with a penalty for that blatant series of three back-to-back shirt pulls on Zaniolo.

We're not as bad as some are saying. (Not to say that we've been brilliant.) It's just how these matches go. I remember watching lower Serie A teams stifle the great AC Milan teams like this. Be patient and wait for a breakthrough; we'll win 1-0. We're absolutely dominating possession and Zrinjski is not as talented as Legia to play on the break. We'll be fine.

Feels like a mid-1990s Serie A match, doesn't it? Welcome to old-style continental football.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can afford to take Thursday lightly after what happened with Legia. Maybe you can start Watkins/JJ/Zaniolo/McGinn as the front 4 to give Diaby a rest, but we might need him at some point, especially since JJ probably isn't up to 90 minutes yet. We're so much more dangerous with Diaby out there.

I think that's the most uncontrolled outburst of emotion I've ever seen from him.

The fact that they have Rodri and de Bruyne in the same side is why City have been so dominant. Look what happened to them today without either (plus with Guardiola serving a touchline ban). Very good team but not the same.

That's mostly true. When he played 4-2-3-1 with McGinn and Doug in the double pivot, McGinn was the one with freedom to go forward. You can argue he should have given Doug the freedom instead, but then he would have been misusing McGinn. Neither was a 6. We had Nakamba, but he gave away the ball far too easily. Signing Kamara is what gave us the power to unleash Doug...I think we'll all agree that SG failed to recognize that.

He's not scoring like he did last year, at least not yet. Meanwhile, I don't think it's a coincidence that they lost two matches today without Rodri. He makes the side run. If something happens to him, they will be vulnerable.

He was never a bad player. He was just misused (Deano) or unused (SG).

To be fair, as Unai pointed out, he missed the whole preseason. He was generally competent last year. He may still have a role to play.

We have five more midweek games in the UECL before the next transfer window. Rotation will continue to be an issue. Here's the situation as I see it. I'm talking about before the next window; I'm not discussing transfer targets. I'm going to divide into the back four, double pivot, and (regardless of configuration) the attacking four. Rotation has been a problem in the back four because of the Mings, Diego, and Moreno injuries. However, Diego and Moreno should be back soon enough. Even if you write off Chambers (probably fair) and Lenglet (probably not fair), we should have enough to get by. Moreno and Digne can rotate at left back. Cash, Diego, Pau, and Konsa can rotate in the other three slots (Cash-Diego-Pau-left back, Cash-Diego-Konsa-LB, Cash Pau-Konsa-LB, Konsa-Pau-Diego-LB). We have plenty of options for the front four: Watkins, Duran, Diaby, Zaniolo, JJ, McGinn, Bailey (unless tonight's injury turns out to be serious), maybe Traore. It's the double pivot that has me worried. Other than LB, it's probably the most demanding position in our system. Doug and Kamara can't play every game. So who do you rotate? Tielemans? It seems pretty obvious that he was bought for the role. While I don't think his other performances have been as awful as some have said, he hasn't looked great, and it sounds like he hit a new low in tonight's match (which I missed). I'm not going to write him off so soon, but his rumoured attitude problems are worrisome; attitude is a lot harder to change than form. Donck? I thought he was generally competent last year, but he's a definite fall-off in quality, and he has mistakes in him, which have come back to bite us twice now. McGinn? Sure, he can play in the double pivot, but the Doug-McGinn combination didn't work that well when Deano ran the double piivot. Maybe Kamara-McGinn would be a more balanced combo, but then who subs for Kamara when he needs a break?

He signed a four year contract, by the way...

I think that was Kamara's first goal for us, wasn't it?

He can block shots, he just can't play the ball.

Translation: He drives a lot of shots straight at the keeper, which counts as on target. He finally developed a chip that we saw a few times last year. I'd like to see it again this year. He's just not someone who can hit with both accuracy and power at once.

If we had been playing Real Madrid or Bayern, we would not have started that XI, and the players would not have underestimated their opponents. At least, unlike Stevenage, we aren't out of the competition.

Who are you counting in your 8? Diaby, Watkins, JJ, Zaniolo, obvious. Moreno? OK. Doug? OK, but one of the double pivots is supposed to get forward sometimes because sometimes you need 6 in attack. Cash? Sure he likes to attack, but he's stayed back when he's been told to stay back. Pau? Likes contribute to the attack, but does so from deep. You can argue that he hasn't adjusted to defending in the PL yet, but I see no signs that he actually shirks his duties. Kamara? Wandered forward tonight but usually doesn't do so as much. The fact that he was tucking into the back line against Palace but was high up the pitch tonight says something about the tactical mistakes. He has stayed back when he's been told to stay back. I might put McGinn in for JJ or Zaniolo depending on opponent/match situation/how well each is playing, but otherwise, I agree with DJBOB...that's our best XI until Mings, Buendia, and maybe Diego are back.

I'm not going to overreact. I think that we need to look at this match as part of the bigger picture. Under Unai last year, we defended very well but could have used a few more goals. Things have reversed. Our weakness under Deano and SG was breaking down packed defences. We have gotten better at that now. Yes, we left it late against Palace, but we still put three past them and could have had more in the first half. Yes, we needed another goal tonight, but we still put two past them and created some late chances. Two goals would be enough to win most nights. I take this progress as encouraging, even if we still have a ways to go, because as we get better, we will see park-the-bus more often. Duran's physicality seems much more fit to terrorize packed defences, whereas Ollie's best chances seem to come on the counter. We looked less likely to score with Ollie out there. That said, as others have pointed out, the sub was understandable given that Duran had fatigued. By the way, while Zaniolo deserves plenty of credit for our first goal, I thought Duran's finish was superb. If you get to see the replay from directly behind the net, watch how well he picks out the corner. On to the ugly, the defence...first, make no mistake. Chambers, Lenglet, and at times Digne were poor tonight individually. Far more concerning to me than their individual faults were the poor organization. I missed Legia's first goal, but on the second and third goals, and on several other opportunities, the players seemed confused about who should be marking whom. This is not the fault just of tonight's backline; it's part of a larger trend. We've seen that in other matches with other players. It doesn't help that we've played eight different players in our backline (Mings, Konsa, Cash, Digne, Diego, Pau, Chambers, Lenglet) and will be adding a ninth on Moreno's return. The injuries are not Unai's fault, but our system requires synchronization and familiarity. You can't get that when you juggle your backline constantly. Pick a backline and stick with it. If someone needs a rest, then rest one at a time. Or divide into two units of four and play the same players together. Maybe next year when Mings is back you can play Cash-Konsa-Mings-Digne on the weekend and New RB-Diego-Pau-Moreno midweek. Chambers has no pace...so why did he go forward so much? If you're going to use him at all, use our now-traditional asymmetric back line with only the LB attacking. I agree with the comment somewhere above that the problems in defence are also in part because Kamara is not playing as well this year, which means less protection for the backline. Anyway, one bad performance is not the end of the world. Sort out the defence and we'll be better than last year. Edit: Forgot to mention...without Mings or Pau in the backline, who was supposed to be the distributor? You could notice their absence.

I missed the first 20 minutes, but from what I saw, strange match indeed.

He's been getting a goal or assist every game. I'll take that!

Although he improved last year, JJ isn't exactly the best in defending either. I'd put McGinn a little ahead in defending, JJ a little ahead in attack. Agreed that McGinn is not as important as Doug. Neither is JJ. Particularly with Mings hurt, Doug may be the most important player in the team right now.

No Mings? Or are you excluding long-term injuries (Mings and Buendia)?

This was probably the most interesting tactical tweak yesterday. The funny thing is that SG tried something similar for a few matches (Kamara tucked in between the CBs instead of to the right side while both fullbacks went forward). It didn't work then, but SG is not Unai.

He's an inconsistent goal-scorer and a consistent do-the-little-things player. Fortunately, we now have enough other players who score that we can ride out his goal scoring slumps. When we can attract a Lewandowski or Haaland or Kane, I'll be all for replacing him. Until then, we could do a lot worse.

Sorry to go off topic but...the media may never take us seriously. Who cares? Clearly other teams are taking us seriously. We finished behind Palace in 2019-20 and 2021-22, and only a few places ahead of them in 2020-21. Two season later and now they think that they have to play park-the-bus because they can't cope with our attack any other way. We're going to see more of that as we become a top-6 side.