Raver50032

So expecting a club like ours to be better than surviving on the cheap is acting like a spoilt child? Constant bitching and moaning about how our great club should be at the top of the league, and how far we've fallen and how loads of us are brainwashed to accept this rubbish etc. etc. It's just being realistic, we can all sympathise with the fact that we were top 6 a few years ago and now we're not. Simple fact is we aren't anymore, get over it. The spoilt child thing comes from the amount of people going way over the top stamping their feet and throwing their claret and blue toys out the pram because we aren't up there again now Lambert has been our manager for a year. We all love Villa, we all WANT us to be at the top of the league, we all know it's been sh*t for ages. No-one is settling for just surviving and loving it. Stomping your feet and crying like Lerner just nicked your sweets and repeating the fact that we SHOULD by some divine right be competing at the top of the league is mental. Not going to be happening this season for sure, might start happening next, it'll be a slow process though and I for one think Lambert is just the type of manager we need to oversee this long process away from the crap end of the table and to where we can all feel a bit happier winning football matches a lot more often. No super rich sugardaddy is on the horizon, we haven't produced the next Messi in the academy yet so you know, be patient and let Lambert get on with it. Nice post, liked it. I am battoning down the hatches to be disappointed and unhappy for a very long time. It's just a case of how long I can continue to justify paying the best part of 480 quid on a season ticket each year. I'm currently here out of 'blind' loyalty to fend off any 'where were you when we were shit' rhetoric should we come good again in the future. Only joking. At some point, I will have to make a decision about whether I get value for money from 480 quid EACH year. Not had value for money down VP since MON was here. That's a lot of money to fork out when you are not enjoying it... and all because of 'blind' loyalty and being made to feel grateful for what we do have. As I have said elsewhere about these forums... I am pleasantly surprised by just how many people still go down VP on regular basis taking into account the cost... the hassle... the more often than not frustration/misery. Th key thing is, we're still here. It's just a case of how long for me... As somebody else said, we have a piss easy run of fixtures now, so all will be well won't it? And this debate will be all forgotten. <here's hoping then...>

To be fair... imagine how good it would feel... ;-)

1) What were your expectations when Doug was in charge? 2) What were your expectations when Randy took over? 3) What are your expectations now (today as things stand). 4) What are your expectations for the future. 1 - such a long period to cover. Focussing on the 1989 to 2000 period, I would say I was expecting to challenge for the league and certainly for the odd cup here and there. And we delivered on several occasions. Towards the end of Ellis' tenure, it was becoming clear that he wasn't in a position to push us on and decline was evident. 2 - I fell for the gravy train. I was convinced that we were going to be the new Chelsea... We even took the piss out of City for losing their Shinawatra money when Gabby scored that perfect hat-trick in a famous 4-2 victory. I was expecting us to make a good fist of getting into the top 4 and ultimately actually do it. I could foresee good cup runs again. Then the summer of 2010 happened... WTF? 3 - I am sure we are being scaled for sale. I expect to remain in the division and have the odd flukey cup run. Any promising young player will be sold to the highest bidder. Rinse and repeat. Pretty sure right now that we are going through a phase of treading water and making up the numbers... and slowly boring/annoying our home crowd to death. 4 - From despair to where? It's been a proper Yankee-Mind-Fook... hasn't it?

To be fair Big John, United already were there and super rich, Arsenal and Chelsea too. Liverpool to a lesser extent. We shouldn't accept mediocrity, of course we shouldn't. However, the madness unleashed at Man Ciy has rather dented the whole affair and made things almost impossible for everyone else. Where AVFC are currently coming from, our model is flawed as well. Though I shouldn't moan because we pick from the clubs 'lower and smaller' than us, should any of our starlets show promise, it won't be long before the 'too good for Villa' mantra appears and the Top 7 nobble us with cripplingly derisive bids. We couldn't keep our best players for long even when MON was in charge - I doubt we'll be able to keep our promising 'stars' given our lowly standing in the league right now. Only seems to be one sure way out of this mess... and it smells like bank notes. Sad, but true IMO.

To be fair suttonpaul - I take your point about being unhappy for a long time into the future. I can see that I certainly will be unhappy. I'm firmly in the camp that our recent finishes are unacceptable and the fact we still go down Villa Park to suffer it is sheer 'blind loyalty.' Enjoyment down Villa Park is very scarce (the odd 'lucky' win not-withstanding) and has been for nigh on three seasons now. Frankly, I'm amazed, given some of the 'crud' we have seen football-wise, that so many still actually attend the games. I think Villa are quite lucky in that respect. Yeah, I am fickle and I demand... expect more from my football club. Especially when I am forking out premier league prices. But I am still going, even though I feel this way. Maybe I ain't so fickle after all... Just unhappy. As is my right, and that of every other fan on this board. Though I have never taken drugs, I can understand 'habits.' Villa is my 'drug.' I need just one more hit... like winning a League Cup final to make me feel good again. So much so, I appear to allow myself to be unhappy down Villa Park in the mean time until I get this fix. Even with only the 9th highest revenue - if clubs like Portsmouth, Birmingham, Swansea and Wigan can win major trophies - it's a disgrace then, that we seem so incompetent (Phil Dowd not-withstanding).

At this point in time, it seems to me that the excuses run out 'on paper' after this latest defeat.. We've had the tough opening run of games that I commented on and we have more points than 'worst case' I thought we could end up with at the end of October. We've had the tough fixtures, and we've had the injuries too... For me, no more excuses about tough fixtures and the team being a good, honest bunch of lads who are learning their trade and we go again etc. This next month is so crucial - for Lambert, the fans and the club. I could be a long way wide of the mark here, but I have a feeling that a failure to win against Cardiff in particular (whether through luck, or with overpowering skill and dominance - whatever) then the fans may start to turn. On paper (yes I know, football is more than paper), we have to be beating teams like Cardiff. If (big if) we are slowly being lulled into a relegation scrap, it's teams like Cardiff who you need to maximise against. Last season it was Wigan, and look how that turned out... (you could equally example QPR and Sunderland I guess, but hey ho... with Villa, you just never know... Particularly with this current lot...) That all said, where we seem to be right now with home form, I am not currently convinced that we will actually beat Cardiff. I am predicting a very difficult game, with some 'same old' playing characteristics. I am braced for disappointment and wondering still where we are going as a club. Starting to lose the faith I'm afraid. Shameful though it is to change your mind... I'm having a bit of an internal rage... Lukaku and that other guy totally spoiled my daughter's first appearance at VP... Still, up the Villa... Prove me wrong please.

Which is better, Bent, or Kozak (I can't seem to do that accent on the 'funny A.') There's only one way to find out...... FIGHT>>>>>>>

I'd probably have more interest in the England team if they had built the national stadium at Tamworth (M6, A5, centre of national train network). Instead, they pandered to the words removed of Chelsea and re-built Wembley, totally taking away the symbolism of English football's 'home' and building a bowl of overpriced red seats. Now it's just... Eng-errrrrrrrr-laaaannnd... Vinda-****-loo... etc Can't stand it. They can stick their Green Flag up their arse... or whoever the sponsor is these days. Hope we win the World Cup though.

It just doesn't work like that though. I remember us losing to Brighton away, who only just avoided relegation, the season we won the League. Yes, I get what you are saying... but the likes of Chelsea, Citeh and Arsenal are not going to be thinking that coming away from the KC with a dullard's point will help them win the league... Likewise, I doubt very much that at the end of 'match day 1' this season, Arsenal fans who totally wrote themselves off and demanded the manager's head (from what I saw anyway on TV) after losing to 'little old Veelahh' really believed when they woke up that day that they were going to lose... Not in a million years, I bet... Maybe they did lol? And Citeh probably expected more from their visit to Villa Park. Let's not kid ourselves though - team spirit more than ability, and a little bit of luck did get us through that Citeh game. It was a great moment, and I loved it... But then I look at the Liverpool game, and the Newcastle game and... well, when we lose at home to both of those, we need to be winning at Hull if you want to stay in the title race - long term... The odd 'freak' result will not totally derail a team's campaign... But look at the teams we have lost to, and look at the number of good performances... and when I say performances, I mean, match winning performances. Yes, we've had some veyr tough fixtures and we're better off than I had predicted on fixture release day. Great stuff. I do worry about our performances, especially at home. But, we're still in it, that's all that matters :-)

I went off to try and find something more interesting in the E-book section of Amazon and WH Smith, but I found out they withdrew everything I had any interest in reading... **** censorship eh? words removed,

Well, if we have any ambition of winning the league, I think we need to be going to places like the KC stadium and getting all 3 points. That said, we're still in it...

Yep - you look down the recent England team sheets and it is littered with midfielders who once played for our famous old club, and played together for us. Even Benty - now cottaging at Fulham. I notice Sol 'shop steward' Campbell has turned up the old race card again too in terms of the 'new' workshop to help us win WC2022. This is partly why I get so fed up with football lately. Pussy-footing around all the time to make up quotas and seen at every turn to play a politically correct game... it just waters everything down as ends up focussing more on the colour of your skin, or the genitals you have between your legs. What this is about, is football. Football is the issue here. And now it seems the committee is full of racial hate shit. Shame on you Sol. Or shame on the BBC for putting words in your mouth. And where are the homosexual footballers on the committee then Sol? Where do they fit in your utopian diverse culture? As a straight white male, I find it perverse that not a single Premier League player, nor an England player of the current generation has felt comfortable about 'coming out.' You see Sol, you can play football if you're black, Asian, Japanese - whatever, and even if you have a vagina between your legs... But you can't be gay... That's the bigger issue here... Now move along. Sod it, let's put Hope Powell in there and we can tick two boxes for the price of one. (Did you see what I did there? How cynical... and I apologise) For the record - I actually do agree that the committee needs to be more diverse. It's not about being racist or sexist or whatever political poisons that individuals want to try and provoke... No, I believe the committee should include people who are actually still properly involved in the game at today's coalface... Make it relevant to now and the future. Not cemented in some previous millenium. Hoddle - totally fooked since his David Icke meltdown. Out of date. Wilkinson - never been any good since Leeds 1991/92. Couldn't handle the Villa at Wembley either in 1996. Out of date. Danny Mills? FFs. Roger Burden? Never heard of him. Must be irrelevant. And that's the problem innit blood?

If we win the league this season, or within the next ten, I will offer myself forward to sing 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' (karaoke style) wearing solely a bra and panties on the Holte End penalty spot.

Considering the cost of going to modern football these days, I don't mind saying that improvements to the club I love, and it's team can never come quick enough. That's the modern world. That said, I remain positive about the 'Lambert way' and the journey we are currently travelling as a result of past bungles. I like to think this thread did not emerge as a consequence solely of the victory over City as to be fair, we were very lucky in that game. The tables provided by the OP are interesting indeed and do tell a story. The highlight for me right now in terms of the 'Lambert Journey' has been the very visual team bond and team spirit we have seen from the players and the energy shown by Lambert himself. I do not think I have seen such positivity running through the team since the 1995/96 (The Squaddies video - rememeber that?) team created by a certain Mr Brian Little. IF - and that is a big capital if, we can actually keep hold of our better players (Benteke aside, who I genuinely believe will be gone next summer, and maybe January), and the improvement continues at a steady pace, there is no reason why this club cannot push to challenge for the Europa league places within two or three years. I'm not going to kid myself that we will get into the Top 4 until such time as we are in a position to invest in players that can get us there again. That's modern football. And this is the modern world... Bring on The Jam...

You are offside if a part of your body that you can score with is offside. In KEA's case his leg & foot. For example if your arm is offside then you are not offside (because you can't legally score with your arm). So no, it's not the same as the rule where the whole ball must be over the line. Fair enough BOF - he was offside then. Like he would have been had he been running backwards and his arse was offside... ;-) Sorry, that wasn't a dig at you, more of an observation. It's clear to me now you have explained it and further adds to the 'luck' factor we enjoyed on the day. Cheers :-)

S-I-T - I thought he did well to handle the pressure he was being put under by City to be fair. He had a LOT of work to do didn't he? Like I have said elsewhere, I thought his touch let him down at times throughout the game, but his contribution overall was just what we need in the team. I have a pretty good feeling about him right now.

I must admit, I didn't want to go either when I woke up on Saturday. Hell, I even shouted 'bring lube for the second half' when the players were going off at half time. Glad I was proven wrong and I guess you never, never know do you in football? It was a great result and a great atmosphere in the end, though it did take a while to get going. I think the issues we have seen all season in the first half were there on show once more. It was difficult to watch us in the first half... And sometimes, miracles do happen.

Woke up on Saturday and went 'Ohhh no... Got to go to Villa Park... can I be arsed?' I even texted my mate to see if he wanted to miss a nailed on battering too. No such luck, 'what time you coming round?' he replied... FFS. Anyway, got to the ground and watched the first half pan out pretty much as expected, dismal Villa (it was) and just a question of when City would score and then how many. Half time at a goal down was mild relief - and I would have taken that at full time normally. 2nd Half we were better, though I am under no illusion that things did seem to fall into place for us. From the Holte, I thought our first goal was offside, but having seen that the trailing half of his body, including one of his testicles was onside, then I am sorry Chris Kamara and Ben Shepherd, you're f**king wrong. He is surely onside? Isn't this the text book case where attacking players are given the benefit of the doubt? Furthermore, I am obviously no expert in the offside rule, but if thw whole of the ball needs to cross the line for it to be a goal, a throw in, a corner or a goal kick, then surely the WHOLE of the player must be offside for it to be offside? That's what I like to think anyway. If they are giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker, then surely that's how it is???? I feared the worst when we conceded softly from a corner with bus-stop defending. 1-2 then and deflated oh so easily. Amazing free kick from Bacuna - pure delight. He probably deserved his man of the match (that's who I voted in this thread) after nearly being bullied in the first half as a result of the pressure he was trying to soak up on the right. I thought some of his touches were heavy and misplaced at times, but the fact remains, he got an assist and scored a great free kick. So good on you Mr Bacon. Then calamity - not for us, but for City. Holte End jubilation for once as Weiman toe-poked beyond a hapless defender and headless chicken goalkeeping rush out. ROAR! Coming away from the ground, feeling of relief and for once, almost sexual arousal. We got away with it on Saturday. Still much work to do. Best bit other than taking a 3-2 lead, was seeing how much it meant to the players at the end. It shouldn't feel like a cup final when we play City, but where we are right now, a result like that is just about what it feels like to win a cup. Shows just how far we still have to climb back up the ladder. Well done boys - keep working hard and you might be able to beat the mighty Hull this weekend.

Villa Park used to feel like a second home to me - always got a fantastic buzz walking to the ground for a game and often used to enjoy getting there early to feel the atmosphere build up inside the stadium. But I am with Pieface on this - I feel as though I going there out of loyalty and find it a bit of a chore getting to the ground, stomaching the match and then fighting through the traffic to get away again. I think the number of times in recent seasons where I have genuinely felt entertained and enthused (whether win, lose or draw) has dwindled definitely. I find watching us on TV really nervy too, though that has always been the case with me. So, with loyalty, it's currently about getting through what Villa actually is right now (which isn't a particularly good footballing club) and hoping (yes, hoping) that things will get better and give me a warm rosy feeling again. What I have said since the Eck days though, is how long do you persist going out of loyalty on the hope that things will get better? AVFC has to compete with so many other things that people can do these days with their disposable income. My other team, Nuneaton Town, from nowhere, are top of the conference and I feel (at times) as though I could be having a better time of it there. However, I keep turning up down VP. Surely one day, it will be our turn again? I have said in the past that when I truly feel that we really are just there to make up the numbers, I will probably say sod it and just capitulate and watch on TV or on line, or not bother. It isn't about being fickle either to be fair. I've been going down VP long enough now to have seen some good times and some bad times. 86 to 87 was proper horror show. But those were the days when, although Liverpool always seemed odds on to win the league, all the other places seemed up for grabs. Now, position 1 to 4 is a lock out unless you spend big... and if you spend big, you have to make enough money to play in Europe. So, which places are currently up for grabs for a club like ours? Which places are we likely to compete for when things get better? If you can answer those honestly to yourself, then you will get a gut feeling as to whether you are just making up the numbers, turning up out of habit and possibly 'wasting your time.' (I did say possibly).

Stick with it Shamen... I don't see why you should get to dodge it and we still have to go... ;-) I'm sure we'll get better... <fingers crossed>

Hi Rovers... I get totally what you are saying and it is quite churlish to push a panic button so early and as you have observed after one game. My concern though is that we watched the Newcastle game play out almost the same way as the previous Liverpool game. Slow start (kind of like one of those dreams where although you are trying to run, your feet are stuck in treacle), go a goal behind etc with a very 1-sided first half. We rallied in both games after the break and arguably could have got an equaliser versus Liverpool like we did against Newcastle. We then saw Newcastle raise their game (which I think Liverpool would have done) and go and score another. De Ja Vous - or however you spell it. I'm not panicking by any means. Liverpool seem to be destined for better things another season in to the Rodger's Realm, and I don't think anyone can say that Newcastle are a poor side - they have some great players. They might go all yellow bellied in the freezing cold winter etc, but you never know. Difficult to know what direction we are heading at the moment. Second home game running - defeat. And whilst I do not like to single individuals out, is Gabby playing centre forward or further out towards the wing? At times, it seemed to me that he was polluting Benteke's space, whereas I was would have expected him and Weimann to be ready to fly down the wings and use their pace? In the first half, if anyone cares to watch it back, just see how many players were just following the ball - and generally all bunched over to our left hand side. It looked amateurish - over to you Paul; in you I trust.

Stefan - are you saying we are in for a goalie? Look how big his hands are (more fluffy than hairy). ROFL

Great result for us... I listened on Radio 5 and when we conceded, I thought we were in for a bruising. But we stuck to our task and Agbonlahor seems to have had the game of his life. Delph sounded good, and Guzan, really put up a good display. The relief I felt when Tony Moon netted our 3rd was similar to when Benteke netted at the death up at Stoke last season... Cracking start fellas... Fwiw, I voted Benteke man of the match. Purely for the two goals - he showed a lot of determination to get in and head the rebound from his missed penalty, especially considering it wasn't a textbook rebound i.e. it came down from the stars for him to head it. Knuckle down then on Wednesday, a different smelling kettle of fish there at the Bridge. A wretched hive of scum and villany... we must be cautious.

Great result... over the moon... But I am in... before... you know what...

Hey 1991, nice avatar again, you sure know how to pick them. That cheeky tongue poke is raising hairs on the back of my neck... Full marks from me.