chrisp65

Hamas are proscribed terrorist organisation in the U.K. including the political wing.

It’s not me saying they aren’t legit, it’s our government that doesn’t recognise them. As it happens fwiw, I don’t think they have much of a claim to be legit either after 17 years without even the pretence of political process.

It was the reference to ‘another’ country, and ‘government’ when we don’t recognise either.

I think we have a broadly similar view of the whole thing, but we can’t refuse to recognise Palestine, refuse to recognise Hamas legitimacy (rightly so) AND class them as a country with a government. We can’t flip flop like that, it’s either a country and should be represented as such on the world stage, or its a refugee camp run by a terrorist organisation.

There should be some catchy phrase that best describes the collective punishment of the civilian population. We have terrorism, for what Hamas did, I guess we have war crime for what Israel is doing. Not everyone is going to like that, it’s a bit one sided, apparently.

Pedant alert, I’m fairly confident I have a friend that once got done for eating an apple whilst driving. Done for not being in full control of the vehicle as they were holding an apple.

I wish it more akin to a Mussolini ending.

Yes, I said that too. I’ve been critical of both sides, much more often of Netanyahu and the IDF as they have the overwhelming power advantage, and our government appears to be supporting them. Criticism of something on the Israeli side does not mean support of terrorists. It is possible to see both sides as wrong. Which they are, both wrong.

Out of curiosity I just scanned back through the last dozen or so pages. I’ve said the following: ‘it’s not just Netanyahu… those behind 7th October also need to be hunted down’ ’undoubtedly letting them (Hamas) back in any significant way will eventually lead to the next cycle of violence’ ’neither side should rely on just endlessly playing the victim card’ ’why can’t the leaders just bomb each other’ ’death cults in Israel..and Iran’ ’greater (UN) intervention (in Gaza) could educate and coach some of the extremism out of the culture’ ’anybody killing hostages… targeting civilians…should be hunted down’ I’m not sure that’s painting a conflict from a single point of view? I most definitely have been very critical of Netanyahu and the IDF. They are a sophisticated modern military and they’ve killed tens of thousands of civilians whilst restricting access to food and water. Personally, I struggle finding the innocent party between someone that kills teenagers at a music festival, and someone that kills refugees in tents.

I’ve said things improve when people have all the information. If that offends you, there’s not much I can do about it. I haven’t mentioned heritage, or patriotism, or reading, or others being inferior or any of the other stuff you’re seeing.

Well it looks like we disagree. But you feel people don’t need any more information if they favour unionism, as that would be condescending. Whereas I would welcome more information. I’ve also not mentioned patriotism or described others as inferior. Quite the opposite, I see them as equals. But I’m the Brexity one? Sounds legit..

Perhaps there should be some neutral or multi party version of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre set up to relentlessly hunt down the butchers and their masters. Anybody killing hostages, targeting civilians, ordering the closure of food supply lines, using an injured child as sniper bait, stealing land, or bombing refugee tents should be hunted down.

Completely accept its a work in progress and any concerted idea of independence is relatively recently re discovered. But it’s something well worth working towards and educating people on. Once people have all the information, and don’t just believe in their own lack of talent or agency, then things can only improve. I can’t really say I’ve got any opinion on a Liverpool argument for independence. Though I know places like Cornwall have small indie movements because they also feel they are not getting the best deal and would be better off in charge of their own affairs rather than hoping their year will eventually arrive in Westminster. Wales not being politically homogenous is correct, and a good thing. There are umbrella parties such as Plaid, single issue parties such as the Greens, more socially conservative parties such as Propel or Gwlad. English speaking areas, Welsh speaking areas, industrial and agricultural. All with one thing in common. They’d be better off if they didn’t have to hope for some Westminster hand outs. I cannot see the argument where we are better off with 32 of the 650 MP’s in Westminster, rather than taking responsibility for ourselves.

I see dreary Mark Lawrenson thinks he’s been sacked because of the BBC woke agenda, what with him being a white male. Nothing to do with him being an awful depressing pundit.

So, excluding the war years, there have been 60 years of tory government since there was something like universal suffrage and a Labour Party to vote for. That feels a better measure than nominally choosing 1960? How many times has Wales voted tory in the last 100 years? It’s zero. It’s true.

As a trade unionist you’ll appreciate how galling it must be to always vote left and almost always get right.

Perhaps we should take Ireland back.

Independence is normal.

I never once got the impression he was any sort of wily political operator. He just always looked like he was about to cry.

If both of you are interested, then build it in to some day trips and weekends. Have a day in Oxford, but google record shops first. You’ll pretty quickly work out which ones stock what you like, have reasonable prices, and have a decent coffee shop in walking distance. I was going to suggest using the Dinked website as another gauge of what shops are nearby. Interestingly, the Midlands generally appears to be a bit un represented on their partners shop map. Whatever your social media thing is, follow a couple of extra accounts of record shops, or online sellers, record labels, bands and venues. Pretty soon from that you’ll work out what’s good for you and what isn’t a great fit. That’s how I use the great satan X. One of the handy things here in the good bit, Spillers issue a weekly new stock sheet. So as well as keeping tabs on Bandcamp for bands I already know I like, I get to look through their listing every week. Anything I’ve never heard of, a quick google and I know if it goes on the list. If you’ve built up a bit of a rapport, you can just get a shop to stockpile or reserve stuff for you, until you get back to that town / shop a few weeks later. I know Bandcamp is already mentioned, it’s great. Algorithm is a bit glitchy, it insists I’m gonna like screaming doom laden incel death metal.

Yeah, I get the bit around the Bute agreement and ditching the Greens before they ditched him. That’s what I don’t understand. He so clearly needed them that ditching the Green Agenda so thoroughly was such a dumb move, there must have been a dozen ways to keep talking, keep compromising, get the other side of the Westminster election. His actions could only ever have ended this way. Whatever policies you back, or believe in, or put up with, there’s some pretty simple maths to consider first.

What a shitshow, without knowing too much, it has the feel of having been so avoidably self inflicted. To abandon a point of policy difference which was so obviously going to split an alliance, just very odd politicking. I would suspect it wil now be a lurch away from progressive stuff to fight toe to toe on ground that didn’t need fighting over.

mmmm, yes and no, the one drop of black blood debate isn’t really one for this thread, I’ll steer clear of that. But yes I concede that using the same security personnel (from a company set up by ex mossad people) that the Israeli politicians have used when they’ve visited the UK does not make him in any way have any connection with official Israeli politics.

I believe at the time, the man next to Falter was identified as having been the security adviser at a number of official Israeli appointments in the U.K. His name was issued along with photos of him at multiple venues and events. That doesn’t ‘prove’ anything. But as ever, it places the truth somewhere in the middle.