thunderball

Don't disagree if we agree that circa 27 is generally regarded as prime football age, I accept as much with the suggestion "entering" which may be 1 or two years away, I guess I was differentiating from recent Luiz, Cash, Konsa buys, and that Bailey/Buendia are generally regarded as already decent players with a higher ceiling - but I am happy with that, it makes a nice change from the type of signings we hd been used to. But it differs player to player - when was Rooney or Sterling's 'Prime' years?

I see Tammy has gone to Roma for £34m. I note is has a buy back clause after 2 years which is possibly why we had little interest (if there was any at all)?

I think we bought young because 'young with potential' was affordable given the number of players we needed, not sure thats the case now as Buendia and Bailey are entering their prime, and Ings is clearly a senior player, also last season we were quite happy to buy Barkley at the end of the loan if it worked out. We can certainly afford say Anguissa instead of Doucoure if we want to, but I think with Jack leaving there is perhaps less urgency of immediacy and a year of steady progress with the team developing together would suit us, we can guild the lily next summer with our war chest full. I think above all else we need another 2-3 high quality squad players capable of starting that we can rotate. If we get into Europe by some slim chance we are going to be in two full-on competitions, we need a large and settled squad otherwise its a waste of time and we are likely to wilt under the demands on all fronts. This is why I hope we buy another 2 or three and why I am also convinced despite suggestions to the contrary, we are still in for at least 2 more high quality players.

I hope we revert to 4-3-3 until we find our feet, at least the pattern works for us and we have the talent to generally upgrade those positions this season. We could then work at implementing other systems later in the season as new players find their feet. That would mean playing one of only Watkins or Ings as the lone striker, and I would run with Watkins as the starter as he did a great team job as well as scoring - we have goals elsewhere this seson too. I would play Buendia at the "10" position Barkley occupied with Bailey out on the RHS. I think this is how we planned to play this season if Jack stayed. This would mean we buy a new starting DM/CM to sit alongside McGinn in stead of Nakamba/Luiz, and if I had the choice I would have JWP or Koopermieners, but failing that Anguissa, Sarr or Doucoure. I would then go all out for Damsgaard to replace Jack on the LHS. This is all within our means, and we could sell Nakamba, AEG, Hourihane and recoup a fair chink of that outlay.

Official site - AVTV, they have highlights, extended highlights and the full game from midnight Saturday. It’s good value

Please lock this thread before it is used against us by opposition fans.

Rewatched the game especially our second half, had a totally different view of things. We were actually OK, and 10 more minutes and we would have scored again. Things started to work, we played at a pace we’re used to, they looked on the ropes. First half was shambolic, I have never seen our formation so wide open and full of gaps and our mid field totally pressed like that, I can’t recall conceding those types of goal on a break where the rest of the ream was so far away out of position, we were a huge mess. In fairness to Targett, he was left on his own, and Cash was just terrible all game. These two will come good. And in answer to some comments on here: Jacob Ramsey is good enough to start on this showing and pre-season he was the best midfielder on Saturday. Whether we can buy improvement on him is another question. For me, Nakamba had a very good game but I don’t think he is good enough over a full season, we defo need an upgrade. His replacement has to improve McGinn as well and unleash Buendia. Otherwise I think we need someone other than McGinn (Sanson?) and then McGinn is a squad player. Ings changes everything as now we play a 4-4-2 it’s going to take some getting used to. This is a big surprise to me and surely a totally different direction to what we intended at the start of the window?

OMG, I thought this site had a more considered view, it’s like Villa Twitter on here post match. Too many Football Managers on here who think we have the right to click our fingers and get 3 points just because we sign new players. Give me a settled team over 3-4 new players any day. It’s going to take games and training ground work for weeks which we just haven’t had. It will come.

Looked quality today, with more game time with a more settled midfield he can be a big player. Didn’t shirk defensive duties either today, he looked as likely a source of goal or assist as anyone.

Final thoughts from me, and reason to be positive: we had decent options from the bench that affected the game and very good players missing, and Smith made substitutions in plenty of time, including a half time hooking of Targett which was bold but needed. Thought Young was a very good deputy, he will figure more than I thought this season. That’s progress.

I think thats what we will do, we will expect defensive pressing stats from Buendia.

I've been tough on McGinn, but he was OK today, stepped up, but the midfield was generally over run by the pressing tactics. His goal was worthy of it alone in anotherwise forgettable game.

I have been thinking about this, I think Jack leaving is in fact a net positive: During Jack's England appearances I was screaming at the TV "get it to Jack" but realising that there are 11 very good players on the field, all capable of something. I feel thats what we evolved into and what I always expected, everyone deffered to Jack and perhaps didnt dig deep into themselves. We have very talented players, I think they will be better for not always looking to getting it to Jack. I even think Jacks personal stats were great at the expense of others in the side, because he demanded the ball all the time. I think we need to find a new way of playing, the second half showed we have talent, with more to come. I thought we gave the ball away too cheaply and had not idea on our outlet ball: no triangle or link up. Maybe thats why the kids shone in pre-season because they all played together and found their rythmn and colleagues. I thought Ransey really matured today. I am not surprised by today, I was cringing last night at our fan base ridiculing Arsenal as I thought the same fate awaited us. Watford had a terrific home record last season and have built on that, we were half strangers to each other. We need to learn new patterns of attack, but we have the talent to make the most of it, but it doesnt happen over night.

It was always a very long shot for me. So much to do this season, lots will yet happen this season, so many stories and dramas. It’s next season we are setting up for because Jack leaving is massive.

Watkins was part of the success in how we changed last season, his return will herald a more familiar pattern from which we can build.

P.s. I love Ashley Young

Lol, is any one really surprised? Looked better second half, it’s going to take until November to find our feet. McGinn looked ok, Ramsey looked good, Bailey and Traore looked like they will offer something more this season. Buendia needs to find his feet and where his team mates are going to be. Watkins will settle us down too. I think two ho e games will help, but don’t see more than 4 points from our “banker” 9, and TBH am not surprised at all. It’s a season of transition.

On that side yes, there’s more to come from there if we are complacent

Really not sure that would make a difference today, it’s all down their RHS on the break, we are just poor and rusty, no one knows where anyone is, there’s no space, no running because there is no space.

McGinn was OK, Nakamba showed signs of being more progressive, but wasn’t great on balance. Very much an unfamiliar bunch and a poor pre-season, would always struggle against a settled promoted team at home first game. Cannot see where a goal is coming from. AEG not contributing especially. Ramsey on LHS and Bailey on the right for me.

Top left for me. I don’t like the star being there, nor the bushy lions tail. Add the star over and outside the circle, as the Bayern badge, then when we win it again it’s easy to keep adding them up there, plenty of space. Man City have done a great job on theirs. I would love the old simple round ‘80s badge back.

You could be onto something here!

Run it past TRO first, but he seems to tick all his boxes! Incidentally I watched the game, he had a good outing, some lovely passes. Ramsey was excellent and Young also very bright, and they had a trialist who gave a good account of himself too.

Plenty on Twitter suggesting it has been a "nearly done" deal for a while, however. Some might say there is no smoke without fire?

I think it can only be Mings this season? However I would say the two senior players in the 'leadership' group who are looking over their shoulders come next year are Mings and McGinn. Both need solid seasons. Personally I think the 1st Team improves with better performances from these two positions which might be from improved form from Mings or McGinn, or newer, more capable and progressive players.