MikeMcKenna

I have changed my mind, we can go down!

Has Collins taken a bung? That was shocking! McLeish OUT!!!

Great post Turnbull and interesting that you mention many of my heroes. Over the last few years I have been very lucky to meet & chat with all the former players you mention with the exception of Andy Gray. The most recent was John Gidman who I met at VP in February, a great lad and in his prime, probably the most exciting full back I had ever seen!

Yeah that is clear to see, open your eyes and see the empty seats at Villa Park. The term "true fan" counts for jack shit in this day and age. You can call yourself that and sit there as righteous as you want, but the simple truth is that the club relies on the mass, not the small % of extremely loyal fans as you portrait yourself to be. People demand mutual respect to fork away thousands of pounds every year, and when a certain point arrives they will stay away. The club needs international fans to come see Villa every year, spend a lot of money in the city and in the club shop - as well online for supporter effects etc. That spirals on to every aspect of the club as a product and a business. More apathy and less people in the stands equals less interest, less revenue, lost income from TV, sponsorships and the whole nine yards. You can probably get a better view from your seat next season though, as I guess the demand will decline tremendously. And you can sit there with your other firm believers. The important point here is not that all other fans are gloryhunters and lesser fans, not at all, but football is not the most important thing in life and that is more visible when the club gives so little back. It is not a human right to win trophies or win most home games every year, but who are we kidding, we are Villa and we do not demand that at all. What I do want is a challenge within our means, the best attempt from both players and club at board level. What we have this season and the last one as well, is a clear disrespect from the guys in charge. Loyalty is lost and fans are boiling over because of it. Our team is more than good enough to perform better than this, and Villa come from the second biggest city in England, yet the numbers are that low. It is amazing, spectacular even. Whilst I understand and agree with elements of your argument parts of of it are rubbish. I do not consider myself to be part of a "small % of extremely loyal fans". I have been vociferous in my protests against the Villa board and Ellis in the past, think the current owner has lost the plot and think AM is a disaster. However I have never decided to stop supporting the club as a form of protest in the past and refuse to do so now. I do sadly believe that ST sales will be down massively next year and respect peoples decisions with-hold their hard earned cash but that doesnt mean I or 000's of others shouldnt renew. FWIW I would like Lerner to sell up and know that the fans are taken for granted but I am not going to change the habit of a lifetime. My comments have all stemmed from the fact that I cannot understand other fans betting on the Villa to go down. I do not consider myself to a better or truer fan than those who have decided to withold their support and reacted to a jibe - we all deal with the shit in different ways.

Football's dead to me. Knew the 'true fan' brigade would come out... It's called being a realist and seeing a chance for some money rather than throwing more away on a **** season ticket. Enjoy the apathy folks. If you want to call it a "true fan" fine that suits me as on principle I never nor would ever bet against the Villa. Likewise I will be renewing my season tickets, not because I support Lerner or McCleish but because I support Aston Villa! Players, Managers, Owners etc come and go but fans are fans for life "through thick and thin"

I cant believe any true fan would put money on us to go down! What a joke!

Who wouldn't. Me. Nor me. Why anyone would want to go for a pint with any of todays jumped up millionaire footballers is beyond me. Look at the photograph ffs! He is so far removed from the fans reality that he would struggle to get his head out of his own arse to speak. At the recent supporters clubs do at VP the only "footballer" that turned up was Tony Daley AND he is now a coach for Wolves! I really cannot understand why fans hero worship the greedy self interested mercenaries who are todays footballers. The post headline is "Who cares?" - I doubt that many (if any) players give a flying F**k about the fans and stay as far away from them as possible when they are not playing!

Jeez... Its really depressing but I sincerely believe we are not going down!

So many great memories ..... but one thats sticks out and will live with me forever.... December 1970 After holding Manu to 1-1 at Old Trafford and against all the odds (being in the old third division) we beat them 2-1 at VP in the semi final of the league cup in front of 62,000!! They had the likes of Law & Best up front and Jimmy Rimmer in goal :-) and Best had said in the press that beating us was a formalility before reaching the final. Me and my mate were gutted as we couldnt get tickets for the Holte End and had to go in the Witton End (open away end before the North Stand) surrounded by Manc Neaderthals. Unbelievably we were wearing our colours and basically ******g ourselves in case we scored! So when we went 0-1 down to a goal by Brian Kidd we got the dogs abuse but were a little relieved that we were not getting a good kicking - despite our night getting even worse!! However in the 2nd half it was a different story. The Villa crowd were immense, the noise was deafening as we came roaring back as the great Andy Lochead levelled to 1-1. Our fear of the mancs just evaporated and we thought sod 'em and together with small group of other exiles from the Holte we started to chant Villa, Villa, Villa - amazingly none of the mancs came anywhere near us (a couple of nearby police may have helped!) To say Villa Park was rocking is an understatement as anyone who was there will remember. We might have been in the third division but in our eyes Aston Villa truly was the greatest team the world has ever seen!!!! THEN with about 20 minutes to go the majestic Pat McMahon rose to score an incredible header and we were 2-1 up and on our way to Wembley - if Villa Park was loud before, after the goal the waves our of sound were devastating and made every hair on your head stand!! But to end one of my greatest memories was the look of shock on the manc fans faces as the whistle blew for time ....... I still dont know till this day why we didnt end up in hospital

Kin hell! How low have we sunk? BOTH OF THEM ARE SHITE!!!! And should never have had or been near the Villa Manager job!

Thought we would get hammered so 1-1 is more than I expected but wonder when we will get another win!

The fact that this thread has 27 pages tells me many fans are rating our youngsters too highly and expecting too much from them.

Despite Liverpools terrible form, I have a terrible feeling that we will get a hammering!

I hope we win against Stoke but I reckon if we lose the floodgates will open and the crowd will turn massively against AM!

It may be true in "your time" but it is ridiculous to claim that apart from "MON years and the time in the 90's" that AVFC have "always" been boring. From the early 70's to early 80's we were one on the most exciting teams in modern times! I was there and it saddens me that younger fans have never experienced an exhilarating AVFC team like we had then! We havent "always" been boring.

I stand by my previous comments about us not being relegated and renewing my season tickets. The odds that we will be relegated instead of those below us statistically against and still well in our favour. Does that mean we are doing well no it doesnt but Frankly Villa "fans" like you make me nauseous. Having a go at the owners and management is fine but there is no need to attack other fans - the mess we are in is not of the fans making. Thinking we will stay up and renewing season tickets does not mean people like me are any less angry at the club ownership or McCleish. Having followed my club for decades doesn't make me a fool but your attack on those that don't agree with your hysterical comments does show you are a bit of a clearing in the woods and that you need to grow some. I havnt attacked anyone, I was mearly pointing out that SO MANY FANS LIKE YOURSELF are too quick to shoot REALISTIC fans like MYSELF down when we mention that relegation IS a possibility. It is only our opinion that it could be a very high possibility that we could actually go down. And calling someone a Clearing in the woods over a internet forum shows you have really grown a pair dosent it mate...? you have sort of been slightly hypocritical saying I am attacking fans to then go and do that? brilliant... Hilarious.........

I stand by my previous comments about us not being relegated and renewing my season tickets. The odds that we will be relegated instead of those below us statistically against and still well in our favour. Does that mean we are doing well no it doesnt but Frankly Villa "fans" like you make me nauseous. Having a go at the owners and management is fine but there is no need to attack other fans - the mess we are in is not of the fans making. Thinking we will stay up and renewing season tickets does not mean people like me are any less angry at the club ownership or McCleish.

It wasnt ALL down to the signing of Heskey, but that January 2009 was the most crucial transfer window for the club. I remember leading up to it on these forums, people were saying if we can just buy a decent striker, we will get 4th ahead of Arsenal. There was talk of Darren Bent, Huntelaar and a Luca Toni, but in the end we got Heskey. If we had sóf signed Bent or someone of the same quality, I think we would of held of Arsenal and got 4th. The gap was only 7 points in the end. The current mess the club in, is not all down to Heskey, but that is a big factor. The most important transfer window in the clubs history, and the club got it horribly wrong. Isnt obvious that by then Lerner wasnt prepared to invest in the likes of Bent etc? Heskey was a terrible buy but you cannot assume that money was available for better.

Correct. That tosser deserves very little loyalty from fans he showed absolutely zero loyalty to. As soon as the golden goose threatened to stop laying eggs for him to do with as he pleased, largely on players not good enough that we're still stuck with or have only recently left, costing us a fortune for little or no return, he scarpered. Now his media mates are covering for his shortcomings and it's being swallowed up again like he's some sort of miracle worker. I dont want McLeish anywhere near this club and that goes for Woody Allen too. It really is rubbish to claim "we'd probably have been in the top 4 a few times" had we had someone like Hiddink. O'Neill did have a lot of money to spend but this was against a backdrop of years of under investment by ellis and the fact that other top clubs were still spending big numbers. Even when the money was spent we had one of the smallest quads in the premiership. Which was the reason we couldnt sustain the challenge in O'Neill's final year. IMO 6th was as good as it was going to get given our inability to retain players and without another large tranche of investment.

Nothing to celebrate but there is no way we will be relegated THIS SEASON! However next season we are well and truly f****d with this manager and useless squad!

We need to face facts: 1. We have a manager who is best suited to a mid table championship side 2. The majority of our players likewise are best suited to mid table championship sides I see no point in getting upset about today's game against an Arsenal team who totally outclass us in every department who have a manager who wouldnt employ AM to manage his reserves. The sooner this season is over the better. Unfortunately we have several more humiliations to come!

This..... Some discraceful and vitriolic comments on this thread, many of which are based on pure ignorance, prejudice and frankly make me ashamed that some of you are fellow Villa fans. In particular the comment by one of our number is particulary nauseating.. The comment made to Thatcher was NOT fact, the police LIED and the FACTS were as follows..... 1. South Yorkshire Police hid the footage of the day for ten years. 2. Every senior officer on the day was pensioned off. 3. The Taylor report exonerated the Liverpool fans of any culpaility 4. The Police refused to allow the ambulance staff to assist for over 30 minutes and at 3pm said no ambulances were required. 5. Police claimed the gates were forced open by fans, the Police Officer David Duckenfield gave the order. 6. Fire Brigade arrived to be told they weren’t required 7. Hillsborough safety certificate had expired 8. Leppings Lane stand was deemed unsuitable in 1981 but never overhauled after 38 Spurs fans suffered crush related injuries. Sheffield Wednesday never carried out the work required. 9. The Access tunnel was closed in 1988, in 1989 the police left it open 10. The CCTV from inside the ground was wiped clean from 2.30pm until 3.15pm 11. The police didn’t request medical assistance until 3.30pm 12. The coroner was advised by persons unknown to take the blood alcohol level of all the victims, including a ten year old boy 13. No major disaster medical plan was put in effect. 14. 37 of the 42 ambulances were kept outside the ground 15. Only 14 victims wer taken to hospital 16. BBC commentators noticed the congestion inside the ground at 2.40pm 17. Officers inside the ground begged the kick off be dealyed. The supervising officers refused. 18. Sheffield City Council were aware that Hillsborough failed 17 safety regulations without censure 19. David Duckenfield had never managed an event of this size before. 20. Who stole the video tapes from the police control room 21. No stewards were on the concourse between the tunnel into the pens and the turnstiles. 22. Crushes had occured at Hillsborough in 1981, 1986, 1987 and 1988. 23. The capacity of the pen that the crush occured in was 2000. At 2:50 it was estimated that 3000 fans were in that pen. The police allowed a further 2000 fans to go into that pen. As Bicks and Blandy have said this could have happened to any of us who attended big games during the 60s - 80s. Having narrowly avoided a disaster in 1981 Hillsborough was a waiting death trap in 1989. If some of you can put your hatred of Liverpool fans to once side for just one moment; consider what would have happened had it been Villa that day. Rather than delay the game to allow the mass of fans outside entry, the supervising police officer ordered the gates opened. Fans entering unsurprisingly went through the tunnel before them which led into an already packed penned. The fans entering didn't know this still they arrived, the crush of those behind forced them on causing a massive crush further down which led to the deaths. Anyone who has been in a severe crush knows the scenario. Contrary to what the media and police said at the time and bigots still think, it wasn't ticketless drunken fans scaling walls and forcing entry.

It's not relevant though is it? Yes, its a benchmark It shows he's doing much better than some think under far more challenging conditions Come the end of the season I wonder if you will claim the same?

Have just watched the game again on Football First and AM's comments ref subs were total bullshit! He treats the fans like idiots. Yes I am very, very happy that we won, but to claim some kind of masterstroke in putting Weimann on is a total ****** joke! We have had go suffer his negative crap all season and he now expects us to accept that he is a tactical genius - the bloke is clearly delusional!

You need to get a life son. No real Villa fan has "a right giggle" because Aston Villa loses. If as you said elsewhere that you have "100% lost interest" maybe it's time you and your Barcelona badge ***** off!