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What Is O'Neill's Attacking Thinking?


JohnCresswell

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For how long though John ? Do you just mean to get out of trouble this season? Cuz you'll never win anything playing long ball in the Premier. You might not go down but you'll be unlikely to get to Europe either - which must be our goal.

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Nothing wrong with hitting the front man early, every club in the Premiership, ironically with the exception of Arsenal (I say ironically as they were once the masters of it) uses it as part of their repetoire.

The difference is offering something alternative. The Bolton side of recent years also had Jay Jay Okocha, for instance. No way is he a typical route-one player, and it would sum up why Bolton have been more successful than 'just staying up'

Of course the question is can MO'N develop the side as such? I think it is possible, though I do not deny that is the one long-term question mark I have around him.

Point is though, we are so far away from being title-contenders at the moment anyway, by the team we get there, MO'N might have decided to retire anyway!

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Nice post. My tuppence:

1) You need at least two players for every position in the PL, otherwise your players get knackered. So I wouldn't read too much into Moore and Agbonlahor's future looking dim. They are the future.

2) I'd be very surprised if we didn't go for 4-3-3, with Petrov tucking in behind the main striker. As long as your wingers are fit and track back, then you're playing a formation that can interchange between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 - which is very confusing for defenders. And bloody effective.

3) I'd be very surprised if John Carew is short term. I reckon he is perfect for the PL and has been waiing for an opportunity to come play here and learn his treade

4) I reckon that's the end of Angel - which is gutting

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If we buy Drogba or van Nistelroy, not that we will of course, in the summer would Carew be short or long term ?

That is my point and I believe O'Neill intends to do something similar.

I agree completely with what has been said about us not winning much with route one, where I have doubts is that O'Neill has a variation that will, although you can never be totally certain. Winning in Scotland isn't like winning a top 4 spot in the Premiership, well I don't think so anyway, but for now it will help stabilise the ship

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Thing is Malc who do you see us getting in better then?

Not necessarily saying you are wrong, just not sure who the better alternative is if Carew is short-term, because when I look around I do not see many better options that we can get in - the bit in italics being the important part.

That said, I would definitely suggest that Dean Ashton is one such scenario.

I will not pretend my knowledge of football outside of Britain is so great that I can offer much there. Not that I know nothing about football beyond these shores, but I know more about Championship football than I do beyond the top teams in Europe. Arrogant English type & all that :winkold:

I guess it also depends on the definition of short-term.

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Simply O'Neill has ideas on who he can get for the longer term to help us progress in the prem to the top 4 I'm sure and although Carew is a decent find, one he's known about for 5 years or so, there are others he wants who he couldn't get who are younger and better and don't have as dodgy a potential future based on his past

Short term in this instance means until he can get said man

No idea who he is but I don't need to.

For now Carew is a superb buy, and long may he be so.

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Simply O'Neill has ideas on who he can get for the longer term to help us progress in the prem to the top 4 I'm sure and although Carew is a decent find, one he's known about for 5 years or so, there are others he wants who he couldn't get who are younger and better and don't have as dodgy a potential future based on his past

Short term in this instance means until he can get said man

No idea who he is but I don't need to.

For now Carew is a superb buy, and long may he be so.

DELETED

Time will tell, I suppose.

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Thanks for the explanation of "route one " ball Baz, much appreciated.

Carew long term or short term? Not worried about it really.

I like the 443 as I think it puts the our strongest players in attacking positions

but we seemed to play better with the 442.

I am looking forward to what MON decides to do against REading.

My guess is a 442 with maloney on the right, Gabby on the bench.

Also Berger's backward passes were freaking annoying, I think he is shite(as you say).

MON is just proving he is a "players" gaffer.

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People (well me) hate (consistently) long ball football because it relies on percentages, on power, on chance (and depends on having a big lummox (to out-muscle the opposition). There's no art to it, no beauty, and while it's a skill I suppose to execute that style, it's not a patch on "passing" football.

Unlike JC, I do care what type of football we play. I want to win first of all, sure, and beggars can't be choosers, but both Arsenal and Bolton win.

I'd pay not to watch Bolton.

But I'm picky. I want to be entertained, and that means good players, with skill and commitment. I want a desire to impress, but not to show off, and I want the team being greater than the sum of it's parts.

Good football also comes from confident players. Not people confident that they can kick the ball 60 yards in the general direction of... but just confident that they can express themselves while remaining disciplined to the basics of the tactics.

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.......Malcolm,When you are soaking up the sun on your deck chair .....are you contemplating a shower.

Martin O'Neill will soon be experiencing a luxury that previous Villa managers have not enjoyed, but other club managers have ....... A proper size squad.

That will bring with it competition ( something our players have not had to endure) and he will watch to see what cream rises to the top.....but don't forget its a squad now, not just a team.

I fancy a few surprises along the way ( players that you favour, may find the exit door).....there will be a lot of transition in the next few years, don't get too attached to any of them ..... the sign is up

......MANAGER AT WORK.

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I think what O'Neill is building, is options. Carew will still be the target man, and we only went 442 in the second half against West Ham. My feeling is that we will play similar to chelsea, with Carew in the middle, Gabby, Moore or Young as the 2 wingers, te 3 midfielders will be 3 of Petrov, McCann, Barry, Maloney. McCann will obviously sit deep, leaving the other 2 to get forward or out wide i.e Barry and Petrov at the minute.

But its the first time we have had options in the squad for a long time, and we should be praising that.

We can afford to rotate the team. We now dont have a set first 11 unless an injury. Which is brilliant news.

..my thoughts too.....options and flexibility.

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Agree with Blandy again

Mind you I agree with John too but as Blandy and others keep saying ad nausea :), we are on a long road to salvation and this is O'Neill's first move to a.) increase the quantity of players in the squad and also b.) the quality.

My view on O'Neill's past is that he uses this tactic to achieve stability and some limited success, I don't class 1 EUFA cup final the success we want ultimately, it doesn't suit my agenda now or later, but it will help us achieve enough growth to gain a regular position amongst the top 10.

From then on we will, as Blandy so rightly says, need a change of tactics to progress on. I'll say now I'm not sure O'Neill capable of such, but tis a long way off, for now 3 wins on the trot would be a major achievement, but and this was the point of my starting this, if O'Neill is going to change the playing structure so, as some predict, come the summer, plenty of players we now take for granted as stars and certainties on the team sheet just don't look like they will be in the future, not because they are crap, shit, fking useless, but simply they don't fit the managers tactical plan.

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The one thing I will say about the 'tactical prowess' of MO'N is that Chelsea were pretty dull, wide players aside, in their two championship seasons.

If the players are good enough I think teams will be up there regardless, of course it is whether or not we can become genuine title contenders that is the question.

But the John Gregory side was boring a lot of the time, Paul Merson aside.

I think I might be waffling a bit, the point I am attempting to make is O'Neill probably can take us beyond just the 'top 10'.

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The one thing I will say about the 'tactical prowess' of MO'N is that Chelsea were pretty dull, wide players aside, in their two championship seasons.

If the players are good enough I think teams will be up there regardless, of course it is whether or not we can become genuine title contenders that is the question.

But the John Gregory side was boring a lot of the time, Paul Merson aside.

I think I might be waffling a bit, the point I am attempting to make is O'Neill probably can take us beyond just the 'top 10'.

I never thought Gregory would, and I really liked him as any who saw me defend him to the death and beyond would know, take us much beyond the top 10 either.

OK Both will get us in with a chance of a top 4 spot once in a while like Allardyce has with Bolton, but even with money I'd doubt Allardyce would regularly make anyone a top 4 competing side.

I'm not saying O'Neill won't just I don't think from what I've seen he is adaptable enough or tactically modern enough. You never know though, I still feel he's a lucky manager

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