Chop chop! Lets all gawp at Newcastle (again)

[bobzy]

38 minutes ago, Random Precision said:

But they aren’t…..SELA £25 million a year isn’t exorbitant…..and Adidas, German company £40 million a year, I guess if it upsets other fans at Newcastle maximising revenue streams then so be it.

Upset is probably strong - but no other side (apart from Man City) is on an even keel; which is a bit shit. 

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, TheFish said:

Not even close. We're 6th for gross spend and 4th behind Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd  for net.

Seriously lacking ambition is what you’re trying to say!

[oishiiniku_uk]

10 hours ago, TheFish said:

Newcastle haven't been the biggest spenders in the league yet.

Only because FFP, which didn't exist at the time of the Chelsea and Man City takeovers, prohibited you from spending more. PIF would have spunked a billion on players if it were allowed. If you want credit for spending a 'mere' 400 million over 3 windows while barely bringing anything in from player sales then you're not going to get it. 

[Vancvillan]

4 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

If you want credit for spending a 'mere' 400 million over 3 windows while barely bringing anything in from player sales then you're not going to get it. 

They did get 23m for ASM though

[oishiiniku_uk]

21 hours ago, bobzy said:

They've had a great start to the season - this is a madness post.

Is it a great start? Since beating us on opening day Newcastle have:

- Lost meekly to Man City 1-0
- Beaten by 10 man Liverpool
- Outplayed by Brighton
- Narrow 1-0 over Brentford (who aren't great so far this season)
- Battered by AC Milan and fluked a 0-0
- Won against Sheff Utd & Burnley (who are both cannon fodder)
- 1-0 win against Man City in Carabao Cup (both teams rotated heavily)
- THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN EUROPEAN HISTORY!!! (home win against a PSG side who are struggling to top the table in a league in which they regularly spend 5 times more than any other team).
- Draw with West Ham (who are quite good).

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Is it a great start? Since beating us on opening day Newcastle have:

- Lost meekly to Man City 1-0
- Beaten by 10 man Liverpool
- Outplayed by Brighton
- Narrow 1-0 over Brentford (who aren't great so far this season)
- Battered by AC Milan and fluked a 0-0
- Won against Sheff Utd & Burnley (who are both cannon fodder)
- 1-0 win against Man City in Carabao Cup (both teams rotated heavily)
- THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN EUROPEAN HISTORY!!! (home win against a PSG side who are struggling to top the table in a league in which they regularly spend 5 times more than any other team).
- Draw with West Ham (who are quite good).

or...

they're 8th in the table 3 points off us in 5th, in the next round of the cup with man city out, top of their CL group

the only way its not a great start is if you looked at it thinking they would challenge for the title this year (they were never going to do that) if you look at it more realistically and say get CL again, win a cup, have fun in the CL then id say they're off to a great start yeah

we should have the exact same season - get CL qualification, win a cup, have fun in europe - we're out of the cup and im not sure id describe europe as fun 

[bobzy]

20 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Is it a great start? Since beating us on opening day Newcastle have:

- Lost meekly to Man City 1-0
- Beaten by 10 man Liverpool
- Outplayed by Brighton
- Narrow 1-0 over Brentford (who aren't great so far this season)
- Battered by AC Milan and fluked a 0-0
- Won against Sheff Utd & Burnley (who are both cannon fodder)
- 1-0 win against Man City in Carabao Cup (both teams rotated heavily)
- THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN EUROPEAN HISTORY!!! (home win against a PSG side who are struggling to top the table in a league in which they regularly spend 5 times more than any other team).
- Draw with West Ham (who are quite good).

Yes, it’s absolutely a great start. They’ve had the toughest fixture list - both in league, cup and CL - but are only 8th, knocked Man City out of the cup and are unbeaten in the “group of death”.

Unless you’re thinking Newcastle should be challenging Man City for the title, it’s a great start. 

[TheFish]

16 hours ago, bobzy said:

I’m sure it is.

But the question for me would be why entirely unknown (in the UK) entities who don’t operate in the UK would pay more than known massive companies for a chance to be a sponsor on a British football teams’ top? Further, why would they not have already sponsored other sides or indeed be competing in the sponsorship market? And why would these companies, with very obvious links to the same owners as Newcastle, happen to be the biggest bidders for all of Newcastle’s sponsorship?

But sure, fair value and all that. 

For the first part, that happens all the time, doesn't it? I'd never heard of AIA, Astropay e.g. Plus 90% of the betting companies. 

The second part is absolutely right, of course it's nepotistic.

[TheFish]

14 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Only because FFP, which didn't exist at the time of the Chelsea and Man City takeovers, prohibited you from spending more. PIF would have spunked a billion on players if it were allowed. If you want credit for spending a 'mere' 400 million over 3 windows while barely bringing anything in from player sales then you're not going to get it. 

I'm not asking for credit, not at all, I'm just saying we've not splurged in the way people expected. I mean, because of the way Ashley had run us, we could have theoretically splashed £500m on transfers in the first window alone. As it is, we've spent about the same as other clubs with ambitions of Champions League. 

[bobzy]

5 minutes ago, TheFish said:

For the first part, that happens all the time, doesn't it? I'd never heard of AIA, Astropay e.g. Plus 90% of the betting companies. 

The second part is absolutely right, of course it's nepotistic.

AIA are absolutely huge as an insurance group, but fair enough if you hadn't heard of them.  Astropay operates in the UK, as do the (often dodgy, should be banned from being sponsors) betting companies too.  Sela doesn't.  It has zero ties to the UK (bar being PIF owned like Newcastle) - I'm not even sure the company operates outside of Saudi Arabia so it seems a little bit odd that they'd want to pay £25m a year to sponsor a British team operating in European competitions.

[TheFish]

3 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Is it a great start? Since beating us on opening day Newcastle have:

- Lost meekly to Man City 1-0
- Beaten by 10 man Liverpool
- Outplayed by Brighton
- Narrow 1-0 over Brentford (who aren't great so far this season)
- Battered by AC Milan and fluked a 0-0
- Won against Sheff Utd & Burnley (who are both cannon fodder)
- 1-0 win against Man City in Carabao Cup (both teams rotated heavily)
- THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN EUROPEAN HISTORY!!! (home win against a PSG side who are struggling to top the table in a league in which they regularly spend 5 times more than any other team).
- Draw with West Ham (who are quite good).

Let's take a look at those results from another point of view;

• Beat Aston Villa who many are tipping for European spots
• Narrowly lost to the likely winners
• Narrowly lost to a resurgent Liverpool despite battering them
• Outplayed by Brighton
• Battered Brentford who are a top half side
• Produced a thoroughly professional point in our first away game in the Champions League for 20yrs
• Scored 8 away from home against Sheffield, who until then had only lost by the odd goal to Man City, Spurs, Palace, Forest. If some of those matches finished 5 minutes earlier, they would have taken another 4-5 points.
• Battered Burnley
• Beat Manchester City in the League cup despite both sides making a few changes. (bear in mind their squad is deeper than ours)
• Absolutely hammered PSG in the CL, keeping arguably the best player in the world quiet. We're top of the group, and are unbeaten. 
• Drew with West Ham who are good.

We're 8th in the league, only Brighton have scored more, only 5 teams have conceded fewer, highest xG in the league, 4th lowest xGA. And we've already got through some of the toughest fixtures in the season. All of this with an injury ravaged squad. 

It's been a very good start.

 

[TheFish]

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

AIA are absolutely huge as an insurance group, but fair enough if you hadn't heard of them.  Astropay operates in the UK, as do the (often dodgy, should be banned from being sponsors) betting companies too.  Sela doesn't.  It has zero ties to the UK (bar being PIF owned like Newcastle) - I'm not even sure the company operates outside of Saudi Arabia so it seems a little bit odd that they'd want to pay £25m a year to sponsor a British team operating in European competitions.

Ah, I see your point, but I still think it's pretty commonplace for fairly unknown companies to splash their logo on the front of a PL shirt. Chiefly because it's a great way to get their name in the public consciousness. King Power is another example. And it's an example of a company linked to the owner. 

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, TheFish said:

Ah, I see your point, but I still think it's pretty commonplace for fairly unknown companies to splash their logo on the front of a PL shirt. Chiefly because it's a great way to get their name in the public consciousness. King Power is another example. And it's an example of a company linked to the owner. 

King Power a good example of being the same thing, yes - and I think Leicester were investigated for some weird sponsorship dealings with King Power (can't remember the details... or, actually, if anything happened?).  But yeah, complete nonsense.

I don't think there are many other shirt sponsors out there who are non-UK operational/unknown/not linked to owners.  Betting companies are the obvious scourge; but they'll all be online.  Chelsea got a new sponsor actually - no idea what they are.  Data analysis or something I think?

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

AIA are absolutely huge as an insurance group, but fair enough if you hadn't heard of them.  Astropay operates in the UK, as do the (often dodgy, should be banned from being sponsors) betting companies too.  Sela doesn't.  It has zero ties to the UK (bar being PIF owned like Newcastle) - I'm not even sure the company operates outside of Saudi Arabia so it seems a little bit odd that they'd want to pay £25m a year to sponsor a British team operating in European competitions.

Those betting companies are 'operational in the UK' only in the sense that it's possible to access the website and they have a white label licence from a PO box company on the Isle of Man. They're exclusively intended for Chinese customers. 

[oishiiniku_uk]

5 hours ago, TheFish said:

Let's take a look at those results from another point of view;

• Battered Brentford who are a top half side
• Produced a thoroughly professional point in our first away game in the Champions League for 20yrs

 

Ah yes, the 1-0 'battering' of Brentford where you had fewer shots than them and half your xg came from a penalty. Do you class any victory above an odd goal as a battering?
And 'professional' is getting out of the San Siro somehow with a draw when they had 25 shots (a lot of them good chances) to your 6?

Couple more stats for ya: 8 of your goals, 9 of your big chances and 5 of your xg comes from a single game against a team that has 1 point from 8 games. You're seventh for points in 2023.

Plenty of teams have a significant number of injuries (ourselves included) and a number of teams are having to deal with playing in Europe for the first time in a while. Your situation isn't unique.
Seriously though, Why are you spending your time trying to convince fans of another club - on THEIR forum - that your team has had a great start? It seems like a fool's errand.

Edited October 10, 2023 by oishiiniku_uk

[villa4europe]

Out of interest what would constitute a great start then?

I seriously think not dropping off given the additional CL games is a good season for them, they're not winning the league they don't have the team or the squad for it

[veriaqa]

14 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Is it a great start? Since beating us on opening day Newcastle have:

- Lost meekly to Man City 1-0
- Beaten by 10 man Liverpool
- Outplayed by Brighton
- Narrow 1-0 over Brentford (who aren't great so far this season)
- Battered by AC Milan and fluked a 0-0
- Won against Sheff Utd & Burnley (who are both cannon fodder)
- 1-0 win against Man City in Carabao Cup (both teams rotated heavily)
- THE GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT IN EUROPEAN HISTORY!!! (home win against a PSG side who are struggling to top the table in a league in which they regularly spend 5 times more than any other team).
- Draw with West Ham (who are quite good).

Agree with this. We have bad start, and many United fans dont want to admit it just because they dont want to admit that Howe is starting to get found out by the top manager of this league. We only won against team that never play us (PSG) or team that doesnt have a good manager (Sheffield, Burnley, Brentford, etc). Kudos to you man. You should post this on some United's forum like NO.

On Sela, they are actually sponsored La Liga in the past and many Saudi tournament until recently.

[oishiiniku_uk]

13 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Out of interest what would constitute a great start then?

I seriously think not dropping off given the additional CL games is a good season for them, they're not winning the league they don't have the team or the squad for it

Improvement on results against teams in the top 7 is what they really need to do to push on (a bit like us). Newcastle win or draw most of the time against mid-lower table teams but they only took 13 from 36 points against teams in the top 7 last season. So far they are 4 from 15 points (as the top 7 stands currently) and four of those games took place before any European fatigue could be considered a factor. Also, a lot of the lesser teams that went toe-to-toe with them last season will sit deeper and make it harder to get those wins this time around (again we're seeing a similar thing with us vs Palace, Wolves etc).

Edited October 11, 2023 by oishiiniku_uk

[Demitri_C]

20 hours ago, TheFish said:

Let's take a look at those results from another point of view;

• Beat Aston Villa who many are tipping for European spots
• Narrowly lost to the likely winners
• Narrowly lost to a resurgent Liverpool despite battering them
• Outplayed by Brighton
• Battered Brentford who are a top half side
• Produced a thoroughly professional point in our first away game in the Champions League for 20yrs
• Scored 8 away from home against Sheffield, who until then had only lost by the odd goal to Man City, Spurs, Palace, Forest. If some of those matches finished 5 minutes earlier, they would have taken another 4-5 points.
• Battered Burnley
• Beat Manchester City in the League cup despite both sides making a few changes. (bear in mind their squad is deeper than ours)
• Absolutely hammered PSG in the CL, keeping arguably the best player in the world quiet. We're top of the group, and are unbeaten. 
• Drew with West Ham who are good.

We're 8th in the league, only Brighton have scored more, only 5 teams have conceded fewer, highest xG in the league, 4th lowest xGA. And we've already got through some of the toughest fixtures in the season. All of this with an injury ravaged squad. 

It's been a very good start.

 

You beat us but you played us at a good time. Buendia gout midweek with ACL mings done his in the game. I would gurantee if burn or trippier did theie ACL in the game it would have affected you the way it did us.

If it was now no chance would it would be 5-1

Also on a different nite what you made of tonali? He looked good agaonst us but since then hasnt really kicked on i think

[TheFish]

17 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Ah yes, the 1-0 'battering' of Brentford where you had fewer shots than them and half your xg came from a penalty. Do you class any victory above an odd goal as a battering?
And 'professional' is getting out of the San Siro somehow with a draw when they had 25 shots (a lot of them good chances) to your 6?

Couple more stats for ya: 8 of your goals, 9 of your big chances and 5 of your xg comes from a single game against a team that has 1 point from 8 games. You're seventh for points in 2023.

Plenty of teams have a significant number of injuries (ourselves included) and a number of teams are having to deal with playing in Europe for the first time in a while. Your situation isn't unique.
Seriously though, Why are you spending your time trying to convince fans of another club - on THEIR forum - that your team has had a great start? It seems like a fool's errand.

No I count a game when we were clearly the better side as a battering. We got out of the San Siro with a 0-0 draw when most of our team hadn't featured in Europe, let alone the Champions League, it was our first fixture in that competition for 20yrs, against a top European side, in a daunting stadium, and we managed the game well. Our defence was good and while we didn't offer much up front it was a very good result and a good professional performance. 

Re: your stats, that's right, we got 8 goals, 9 big chances and a good chunk of our table topping xG (I have 3.9 xG) came in one fixture. A fixture that caused Man City, Tottenham, much bigger problems. We're 7th for points in 2023, but we've had a very difficult run of fixtures and have come through it only 5pts off Man City. 

I'm not claiming our situation is unique, I'm just challenging your claim that we've had a bad start. I don't think that's true at all.