The Randy Lerner thread

[CI]

As a man, I prefer him 100% above GED who always gave the vibe we should be grateful to have him

[Mantis]

We are.a below average team who, with a limited manager, will struggle to stay up. It is unfair to expect a manager of mcleishs ability to polish a turd. There is a manager currently unemployed who could get more out of this team but he would not come here undetermined this joke of an owner

Below average team who will struggle to stay up? Get real. Sure, we're not world beaters, but we're hardly below average either.

[thegiddygambler]

We are.a below average team who, with a limited manager, will struggle to stay up. It is unfair to expect a manager of mcleishs ability to polish a turd. There is a manager currently unemployed who could get more out of this team but he would not come here undetermined this joke of an owner

Below average team who will struggle to stay up? Get real. Sure, we're not world beaters, but we're hardly below average either.

I'm starting to think we are very much below average to be honest with you.

That first half against QPR was shaemful. There's been so many home games this season where we've created little to nothing attacking wise.

Gabby, Given & Bent are good players, Dunne, Collins & Warnock are quite capable. The rest are very questionable and I include our "wonder kids" in that description.

[barry'sboots]

Both relegated, one with a cup one without yet somehow the one without the cup did better?

The one without a cup had a team full of championship players, the one with a cup was able to sign some players for and on a fair bit of money. The one without a cup kept a dream alive till the last day of the season, the one with a cup did something that only Villa fans dreamt about.

Expectations were different. One exceeded in being able to stay up till last day of season. One fell well short.

But in history and real terms the outcome regardless of when it happened is relegation so the cup is the difference. I think that makes him the more succesful of the two managers last year.

Dale is spot on. You are not comparing apples with apples. Holloway's achievements were way in excess of McLeish's last season and I think every football neutral would accept this. McLeish took a team that finished 9th the season before, didn't lose anybody from memory and had money to spend on reinforcements and got them relegated. A cup just does not make up for that. I think you must surely have your C&B specs (or should I say RL specs) on to try and argue otherwise.

[briny_ear]

Well, when people start advocating Holloway as manager of Villa we have truly reached a new low.

[MikeMcKenna]

Given our current predicament I can understand why this thread keeps drifting towards McLeish but like many Villa managers in the past he really is incidental to the current situation. I don't think he is capable of taking us further with or without investment.

Where Mr.Lerner is physically and strategically on Aston Villa is the real issue. I met a senior Villa executive on Saturday and said that like many I felt Mr.Lerner needs to speak us about his vision for the future. His response was that he had done just that through his letter to season ticket holders. I responded that the letter in my opinion told us nothing.

My opinion is that Randy Lerner would sell if given half the chance and also imo realises that he gambled and failed.

[CI]

Please stay on thread topic

Where's Randy ?

[barry'sboots]

Where Mr.Lerner is physically and strategically on Aston Villa is the real issue. I met a senior Villa executive on Saturday and said that like many I felt Mr.Lerner needs to speak us about his vision for the future. His response was that he had done just that through his letter to season ticket holders. I responded that the letter in my opinion told us nothing.

I only saw the letter from PF that went to non-renewing shareholders which, like yours, said pretty much nothing.

Both the contents of these letters and the fact that they are only reaching circa 25k (?) of the potential Villa supporting public shows how pathetic the current board's PR strategy is. They really haven't got a scooby and seem to be taking the fan base for a bunch of mugs with every action (or non-action) that they take.

[makouns_grin]

Please stay on thread topic

Where's Randy ?

Probably at his house.

[DelboyVilla]

Please stay on thread topic

Where's Randy ?

Probably at his house.

Which one??

[CI]

On balance, I think I'd still take an owner that is AWOL over one that constantly meddles and craves self publicity

It could be much worse

[DelboyVilla]

On balance, I think I'd still take an owner that is AWOL over one that constantly meddles and craves self publicity

It could be much worse

I hate that 'it could be worse' argument.

Well it could be/has been a darn site better (under Randy)!! The sudden lack of interest/funds has been so dramatic. They could have phased the cut backs more slowly over 2-3 seasons?

[briny_ear]

On balance, I think I'd still take an owner that is AWOL over one that constantly meddles and craves self publicity

It could be much worse

I hate that 'it could be worse' argument.

Well it could be/has been a darn site better (under Randy)!! The sudden lack of interest/funds has been so dramatic. They could have phased the cut backs more slowly over 2-3 seasons?

Ed Miliband?

Is that you?

[DelboyVilla]

On balance, I think I'd still take an owner that is AWOL over one that constantly meddles and craves self publicity

It could be much worse

I hate that 'it could be worse' argument.

Well it could be/has been a darn site better (under Randy)!! The sudden lack of interest/funds has been so dramatic. They could have phased the cut backs more slowly over 2-3 seasons?

Ed Miliband?

Is that you?

Of course not!

And I refute those who say I am his spin doctor!!! :winkold:

[barry'sboots]

On balance, I think I'd still take an owner that is AWOL over one that constantly meddles and craves self publicity

It could be much worse

I would agree with this .... if he had put a decent management team in place that understood running £100m niche consumer businesses and football. He has not. Equally, he does meddle in the things that are most important, i.e. the appointment of our manager, which he has done to disasterous effect twice now.

[stanthemanisgod]

Meddle??

Whilst I'm not about to drop to my knees in front of him, I think you're being unfair and there's be as many if not more of you on here criticising for not appointing the manager if he left it to someone else.

He's the owner and chairman it's his job to appoint the manager. The issue we seem to have with Lerner is the fact that he's not doing what we want him to do rather than the fact he's doing nothing.

People moan about the lack of communication, where as I've seen quite a bit from him during the summer about where we are in terms of finance etc. The issue is for most imo that he hasn't issued the statemements the majority want to here. Yet we all know about the need to reduce the wage bill, about the drive to bring outgoings in line with income and the club's desire to meet the UEFA financial regulations.

People are accusing him of meddling with the appointment of the manager, not because they honestly believe he shouldn't be appointing the manager, but because he appointed a manager they didn't want.

All Lerner can do is his best based on the options available to him. If he couldn't continue to bank roll the club on a drive for top 4 but ending up with 6th then it made sense to try to reduce the expenditure to a manageable level.

If McLeish was the best man that was prepared to accept the Villa job then what else would you have him do?

It's easy for us to sit here and moan about this and that, but what if had say hired a young unheard of manager that didn't inspire us fans, and had struggled thus far in the league, do you think VP would suddenly be full with a waiting list longer that Utd's? Or do you think there's be people on here moaning about the fact we didn't hire a manager with the relevant experience, who knew how to indentify solid PL players etc etc

[smetrov]

Meddle??

Whilst I'm not about to drop to my knees in front of him, I think you're being unfair and there's be as many if not more of you on here criticising for not appointing the manager if he left it to someone else.

He's the owner and chairman it's his job to appoint the manager. The issue we seem to have with Lerner is the fact that he's not doing what we want him to do rather than the fact he's doing nothing.

People moan about the lack of communication, where as I've seen quite a bit from him during the summer about where we are in terms of finance etc. The issue is for most imo that he hasn't issued the statemements the majority want to here. Yet we all know about the need to reduce the wage bill, about the drive to bring outgoings in line with income and the club's desire to meet the UEFA financial regulations.

People are accusing him of meddling with the appointment of the manager, not because they honestly believe he shouldn't be appointing the manager, but because he appointed a manager they didn't want.

All Lerner can do is his best based on the options available to him. If he couldn't continue to bank roll the club on a drive for top 4 but ending up with 6th then it made sense to try to reduce the expenditure to a manageable level.

If McLeish was the best man that was prepared to accept the Villa job then what else would you have him do?

It's easy for us to sit here and moan about this and that, but what if had say hired a young unheard of manager that didn't inspire us fans, and had struggled thus far in the league, do you think VP would suddenly be full with a waiting list longer that Utd's? Or do you think there's be people on here moaning about the fact we didn't hire a manager with the relevant experience, who knew how to indentify solid PL players etc etc

However I do beleive there were better candiates available. Mark Hughes for one.

Throughout his Tenure Doug lured some decent managers to villa. Its a still a top club - and one of the big jobs in english football

[stanthemanisgod]

But do we know Hughes was actually an option.

According to Fulham he left there in the Summer due to a lack of ambition from the Chairman, can hardly see him swapping that for wage reductions and the sale of Young and Downing.

Are we still a top club? How many neutrals would describe us as so, how many countries are we a famous name in?

People moan Lerner isn't good enough for Villa, McLeish isn't good enough for Villa, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Beye, Cuellar, Heskey, Ireland, Herd, Bannan etc etc etc aren't good enough for Villa..... maybe it's time to reconsider how good Villa is as a club and what is good enough for us?

[barry'sboots]

Meddle??

Whilst I'm not about to drop to my knees in front of him, I think you're being unfair and there's be as many if not more of you on here criticising for not appointing the manager if he left it to someone else.

He's the owner and chairman it's his job to appoint the manager. The issue we seem to have with Lerner is the fact that he's not doing what we want him to do rather than the fact he's doing nothing.

People moan about the lack of communication, where as I've seen quite a bit from him during the summer about where we are in terms of finance etc. The issue is for most imo that he hasn't issued the statemements the majority want to here. Yet we all know about the need to reduce the wage bill, about the drive to bring outgoings in line with income and the club's desire to meet the UEFA financial regulations.

People are accusing him of meddling with the appointment of the manager, not because they honestly believe he shouldn't be appointing the manager, but because he appointed a manager they didn't want.

All Lerner can do is his best based on the options available to him. If he couldn't continue to bank roll the club on a drive for top 4 but ending up with 6th then it made sense to try to reduce the expenditure to a manageable level.

If McLeish was the best man that was prepared to accept the Villa job then what else would you have him do?

It's easy for us to sit here and moan about this and that, but what if had say hired a young unheard of manager that didn't inspire us fans, and had struggled thus far in the league, do you think VP would suddenly be full with a waiting list longer that Utd's? Or do you think there's be people on here moaning about the fact we didn't hire a manager with the relevant experience, who knew how to indentify solid PL players etc etc

I would disagree. I believe it his responsibility to seek out the best managerial appointment possible. To do this he needs proper advice and support. As owner, of course he should have the final say BUT I do not want an owner that knows very little about football and the fan base, IMHO, making decisions which effect our club without a proper process.

I have it first hand from someone very close to the process - obviously can't say where - that McLeish was always RL's first choice. He didn't go through a proper process as far as I can see - and I don't believe that he has the infrastructure/management resource that could support such a process anyway.

I think McLeish is a shocking appointment. Personally, I don't rate him as a manager for either the results he delivers or the style of football that he encourages. I think, at best he is a defensive coach and even there, given our recent defending of set pieces, I am unsure of his capabilities. However, on a commercial basis I think the appointment of McLeish was bizarre and suicidal from a business perspective as a large portion of the fan base was alienated in one move. Its not just because he is ex-Blues - if he were good then Villa fans would have seen this as a positive and a real coup just as they might have with the capture of Scott Dann or Ben Foster. It is because he is a poor manager with a poor track record and a horrible style of play.

Like many, I cannot believe that we could not have found a better manager. We are still, IMO, in the top 10 clubs in the premier league competition in the world. And we are paying over £2m for the role! I'm sure that there were and still are better candidates out there.

[stanthemanisgod]

Whilst you may not be sure I did not see a que of top managers beating down Lerner's door. I did see us make a public approack for Martinez of wigan before we even got a sniff that McLeish was in the frame.

Seems to me that if we didn't have a process in place and Lerner was always going to appoint McLeish he went to some extreme to make it look like we were considering other options.