O'Neill on transfer window again

[BOF]

No need to apologise Malcolm and I wasn't attacking you at all. I was just offering a possible reason as to why MON is saying more in the media than the others managers are. And as far as I'm aware some of these other managers who are happily keeping their heads down and remaining optimistic haven't even signed a player even on loan so despite being optimistic they are worse off than we are.

I don't know where the chirpy MON has gone either but one realistic suggestion I have is that maybe he feels it's time to knuckle down while we're going through a terrible run of results and while the transfer window is open. This is the most crucial part of our season for both of those reasons and maybe if he was remaining chirpy while all around him was seemingly falling apart, another set of fans would not be appreciative of him seemingly making light of a daunting situation. Maybe in the current climate, a focussed and serious MON is what is called for.

[blandy]

..now that could be down to lack of intelligence, or it could be down to their personal agenda....

Pablo, it could be down to Malc simply reaching a different view, having different opinions.

It might be nothing to do with agendas or lack of intelligence.

Why are people grudgefull? (gratuitous M.E.S. reference)

[skywalker]

If Dol had spouted some of the negative crap that Mon seems to on a almost daily basis there would have been a 500 page hate filled thread about it.

[Wurzel]

If Dol had spouted some of the negative crap that Mon seems to on a almost daily basis there would have been a 500 page hate filled thread about it.

The only word for this comment is boll....... He complians no more or no less than other managers.

[pablopicasso]

..now that could be down to lack of intelligence, or it could be down to their personal agenda....

Pablo, it could be down to Malc simply reaching a different view, having different opinions.

It might be nothing to do with agendas or lack of intelligence.

Why are people grudgefull? (gratuitous M.E.S. reference)

im not talking about malcolm...

im talking in general about people who have looked at some of o'neills statements and added their own spin on what he says, to suit the fact that they want to have a whinge...

if malcolm or anyone else thinks im having a pop at them with regards my "agenda/inteligence" comment, then thats their issue with themselves...

not mine..

i never aimed any statement at any individual...

but, if they want to think it applies to them, due to looking at the overall context of my statement, then maybe they would like to use the same courtesy to o'neills statements too...

[trevor]

but I don't see him or Lerenr as this God like figure who can do no wrong, sorry all.

Neither do I but I imagine I will back every decision they make for the rest of the season (and longer). He's the manager Villa fans wanted and the manager other fans envy. No more to be said

[blandy]

It might be nothing to do with agendas or lack of intelligence.

Why are people grudgefull? (gratuitous M.E.S. reference)

But you do agree it could be down to lack of intelligence or an agenda?

I don't think it is down to either of those things.

I don't see why people should imply it is, even if they think it.

[Wurzel]

It might be nothing to do with agendas or lack of intelligence.

Why are people grudgefull? (gratuitous M.E.S. reference)

But you do agree it could be down to lack of intelligence or an agenda?

I don't think it is down to either of those things.

I don't see why people should imply it is, even if they think it.

You dont, oh! Have you read many of the threads in the Villatalk section recently? If you had you would understand why one may come to such conclusions!

[blandy]

Have you read many of the threads in the Villatalk section recently? If you had you would understand why one may come to such conclusions!

I hope not - I agree with a good chunk of what Malc says. Maybe not so much on some issues.

I don't think I have an agenda (apart from the secret world domination thing -Oh! Damn, let the cat out of the bag there. Curse my foolishness), but I'm not a fool - I'm cramming hard for my advanced woodwork O level.

[Wurzel]

All I will say is patience is a virtue, some of the "comments" made against MON by some posters are quite frankly a disgrace, as were some of the comments made against DOL. The difference it seems to me is that DOL was at least given the opportunity to try and improve things, where as some are not willing to give MON the same courtesy.

[blandy]

Sure. I agree.

Thing is though, and this is maybe the point about a lot of issues where someone has a comment on MO'N - you can still support him, want him to succeed, think he's the best man for the job...etc and also make a point that you personally would like to see A rather than B, or would have done something differently - can't you?

I think that anyone who thinks that he has not made a single wrong decision (with hindsight) is perhaps not as analytical as all that. I bet he'd 'fess up to doing one or two things that haven't quite worked out as he'd have liked. It's only natural.

I think we understand the size of the task he has, but when it comes to understanding the detail as to why he says something, we genuinely don't know if there's a reason for his tone or words. He's extremely clever. I'd guess that if he was really positive, then the papers would be all over Villa and he'd maybe not be able to do things on the QT so easily.

We'd get articles every day about how so and so is coming, 20 million this, 10 million that. And it'd all be made up bollex.

I like to think/delude myself that both MO'N and the board are genuinely committed to working away behind the scenes, correctly and properly and with dignity and doing things in the right way, for the best of the club.

If my delusion/thoughts re correct, then I'd expect the sort of statements he's made.

Talk about the transfer window - gives the press an angle, without letting anything out about possible signings. And it's truthful.

s'what DO'L got wrong - he never had the hang of dealing with the press.

Also, you notice little adjustments as a result of press coverage. First of it was coming across very negatively, then there's a positive adjustment about hoping to get 5 StTan class players in..but it might not be possible....but Randy's right behind me (when it was claimed ludicrously that he wasn't).

He's smart.

And transfer windows are mad.

[Grunthos]

All the other managers in the various leagues get on with it, I have just seen Rafa Benitez after 2 awful results stand his ground and suggest he'll be involved in some deals soon and he is happy with the backing his board keep giving him.

What do we get? Negative platitudes and excuses which if O'Neill as I believe will bring in a few big deals, will look slightly hypocritical and of no positive value.

...

I hear all the excuses for him, but the fact remains we have this new wonder regime, this superb manager and all I'm hearing now is excuses and in my view, nothing more, my view some of them are pathetic.

This strikes me as a strongly one-sided view of the evidence to hand. Over the course of the last few months, MON has repeatedly made statements that are sober and sensible, with intent to evaluate both positive and negative aspects of the situation. It seems that for some, only the negative parts are significant or to be believed. I don't see why MON should be disallowed from pointing out the difficulties inherent in the January window, or why Benitez's statement that he has good backing from his board this week is valid while MON's statements that he has full backing from Randy in previous weeks are irrelevant, especially when he has repeatedly stated that (not being an idiot) he recognizes the squad needs a lot of strengthening and wants to bring quality players to the club.

There is fundamentally a contradiction between insisting that the stewards of the club be trustworthy, responsible, and effective on the one hand, while simultaneously never indicating that they are having problems or delays of any kind... let alone paying extra money or rushing to decisions just to spare everyone some angst.

You want players, you say. Get decent bodies into the squad. Well, we don't want to buy or loan those bodies and then succeed in acquiring the better players we have targeted, resulting in money wasted and goodwill squandered. Do you want us to buy a second choice winger on starter's wages, then turn around and land a first-choice winger and be paying double for that starting spot, or turning down the first-choice player because the position was filled? Do you want us to loan in players from other clubs on the understanding that they will get first-team time, then buy a starter and have that first-team time dissipate? Be careful what bridges you want to burn and whose hackles you wish to raise and what money you want to waste in your rush to superficially feel good about the team for the next two weeks.

Fortunately, it appears MON is more than willing to do his best to get things right. I, for one, do not want to see him buying "quality "players that don't fit the team he wants to build, just to fill holes. That's what loans are for. And if we get, say, three talented players on loan for the rest of the year, then I'm good with that. The manager should build the best total team he can, not just a collection of players sharing the same shirt color. So try to be happy you have a manager who will be selective and look to the future of the club at the same time he looks at the present.

[Grant(aka_eddy)]

Sure. I agree.

Thing is though, and this is maybe the point about a lot of issues where someone has a comment on MO'N - you can still support him, want him to succeed, think he's the best man for the job...etc and also make a point that you personally would like to see A rather than B, or would have done something differently - can't you?

Dont think anybody minds anyone else making a point and having an alternative viewpoint. It's what makes VT an addicitve place to come and debate with others [/lovein].

What I think alot of people object to is the constant snide digs, sarcasm, double meanings, vague insinuations, backhanded references and unsubstantiated criticism that have become all too common.

As one of the better (possibly best) communicators on this site Pete you dont have to worry about this. There are others though that I feel could do with dropping the victim complex and realising that it's their actions that are a direct cause of the reactions. It isnt necessarily the points they make but usually how they are being made. However this has all been said before and not taken on board so ...meh!

I think that anyone who thinks that he has not made a single wrong decision (with hindsight) is perhaps not as analytical as all that. I bet he'd 'fess up to doing one or two things that haven't quite worked out as he'd have liked. It's only natural.

Agree. So would most I think.

I think we understand the size of the task he has, but when it comes to understanding the detail as to why he says something, we genuinely don't know if there's a reason for his tone or words. He's extremely clever. I'd guess that if he was really positive, then the papers would be all over Villa and he'd maybe not be able to do things on the QT so easily.

We'd get articles every day about how so and so is coming, 20 million this, 10 million that. And it'd all be made up bollex.

VT'ers guilty of over-analysis and impatience? Surely not!

I like to think/delude myself that both MO'N and the board are genuinely committed to working away behind the scenes, correctly and properly and with dignity and doing things in the right way, for the best of the club.

If my delusion/thoughts re correct, then I'd expect the sort of statements he's made.

Talk about the transfer window - gives the press an angle, without letting anything out about possible signings. And it's truthful.

s'what DO'L got wrong - he never had the hang of dealing with the press.

Also, you notice little adjustments as a result of press coverage. First of it was coming across very negatively, then there's a positive adjustment about hoping to get 5 StTan class players in..but it might not be possible....but Randy's right behind me (when it was claimed ludicrously that he wasn't).

He's smart.

Indeed he is, which is widely accepted in football I feel. He is far from above criticism but the nature of some of it just seems ludicrous in the face of this. People seem to be panicking and bringing up some issues that my 8 year old cousin has a decent grasp of, let alone our manager and board.

And transfer windows are mad.

I apologise for swearing but i **** detest the transfer window!

[flashingqwerty]

I don't think you can compare our situation to Everton & Man City. They have not been taken over. They do not have money they didn't have last year. There are no promises from their board that there's a new direction afoot. In that sense the only club we can be compared to in some way is West Ham. And they've been doing far more media brain-farting than we have. So I suppose in that way MON feels obliged more than most premiership managers to justify himself every few days and to reassure people that he is doing his best.

Hang on I was doing nothing of the sort BOF.

I was comparing the way O'Neill is bitching about the transfer window, complaining about how he's getting gazumped and generally having a whinge in comparison to other Premiership managers who aren't, managers who may have more reason to whinge not having any money and are giving a more upbeat message.

Its got sweet fa to do with a comparison of how great or not each club is or how their board is building a new hotel or paying for coaches to away matches

I'm not looking for O'Neill to fail either, I keep saying I see no reason even though O'Neill obviously does, why he won't get some decent players.

I hear all the excuses for him, but the fact remains we have this new wonder regime, this superb manager and all I'm hearing now is excuses and in my view, nothing more, my view some of them are pathetic.

I repeat, where has the happy smiling, joking Martin with the little quip gone, why is he being gazumped, can he not negotiate can he not do what other managers have/are.

Can people on here stop thinking I have a vendetta against him I don't, but I don't see him or Lerenr as this God like figure who can do no wrong, sorry all.

AVFC take your dark glasses off will you and read the article again

basically your making yourself look foolish with this MON bashing rubbish

and backing your points up with very misguided and unfounded twaddle.

What he is saying is that although he has money he is not willing to waste it now on one player when he can get that same player and 2 or three more in summer for the same price.

There is not 1 team in the premiership who has signed even a half decent player so far

so even attempting to compare us in this way is ridiculous

there is absolutly no pint in paying huge money fpr nothing players when we can wait and get them for half the price in a few months

he will sign some stop gaps and loaners for now and that is fine

i can see your the type of person who spends his monthly wages in the first week and then starves for the next 3 cos you havent got a clue how things work

[villabromsgrove]

Here's my view for what it's worth. Martin O neill has had twelve days of this transfer window and a handful of days at the end of the summer transfer window to try and bring players in. He signed Petrov, almost signed Milner and has got a potentially good right back on loan courtesy of his good friend Sir Alex.

He is having to try to sign players despite the media led expectation that Villa have pots of money to spend and may be prepared to throw large chunks of it at vastly overpriced inexperienced players. Mon has to contend with media and fan expectation and give interviews when he would like nothing more than to quietly go on with the business of getting good players to come to Aston Villa.

It is far to early to make judgements about either the new owners or the new manager, because that is what they are, NEW! Let's wait two or three years by which time both the boards intentions and the ability of Mon to turn those intentions into a winning team will be self evident. Until then we need to recognise that there is an enormous job ahead and it will take time. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will the new Aston Villa be.

[PB]

if you want my opinion all this stuff from MON just points to him being opposed strongly to the whole idea of transfer windows. Cant say as I blame him much to be honest, must be a nightmare. If he, as someone that people tend to listen to, bangs on about it long enough then maybe the whole thing will get binned, or at least debated seriously in the media.

[OldFart]

But it's a UEFA rule that there be transfer windows. It'll need pressure all over Europe to get them removed.

[PB]

But it's a UEFA rule that there be transfer windows. It'll need pressure all over Europe to get them removed.

No-one has ever explained to me what it is that they are supposed to achieve. I can sort of see the theory, but it doesnt make alot of sense to me

I guess that the idea is that you cant buy your way out of trouble, as this would favour the big clubs. Which is fine. but then you stick a window in the middle of the season so that you can, erm, buy your way out of trouble.

Is daft imo

[OldFart]

In some countries it is considered that too much movement of players during the season can lead to manipulation of the league competition. OT, but in Spain a manager may not manage 2 clubs during the same season. I must confess I agree with you, PB, it's daft, but presumably as long as we're in UEFA we have to abide by their rules. Stupid.

[pablopicasso]

All the other managers in the various leagues get on with it, I have just seen Rafa Benitez after 2 awful results stand his ground and suggest he'll be involved in some deals soon and he is happy with the backing his board keep giving him.

What do we get? Negative platitudes and excuses which if O'Neill as I believe will bring in a few big deals, will look slightly hypocritical and of no positive value.

...

I hear all the excuses for him, but the fact remains we have this new wonder regime, this superb manager and all I'm hearing now is excuses and in my view, nothing more, my view some of them are pathetic.

This strikes me as a strongly one-sided view of the evidence to hand. Over the course of the last few months, MON has repeatedly made statements that are sober and sensible, with intent to evaluate both positive and negative aspects of the situation. It seems that for some, only the negative parts are significant or to be believed. I don't see why MON should be disallowed from pointing out the difficulties inherent in the January window, or why Benitez's statement that he has good backing from his board this week is valid while MON's statements that he has full backing from Randy in previous weeks are irrelevant, especially when he has repeatedly stated that (not being an idiot) he recognizes the squad needs a lot of strengthening and wants to bring quality players to the club.

There is fundamentally a contradiction between insisting that the stewards of the club be trustworthy, responsible, and effective on the one hand, while simultaneously never indicating that they are having problems or delays of any kind... let alone paying extra money or rushing to decisions just to spare everyone some angst.

You want players, you say. Get decent bodies into the squad. Well, we don't want to buy or loan those bodies and then succeed in acquiring the better players we have targeted, resulting in money wasted and goodwill squandered. Do you want us to buy a second choice winger on starter's wages, then turn around and land a first-choice winger and be paying double for that starting spot, or turning down the first-choice player because the position was filled? Do you want us to loan in players from other clubs on the understanding that they will get first-team time, then buy a starter and have that first-team time dissipate? Be careful what bridges you want to burn and whose hackles you wish to raise and what money you want to waste in your rush to superficially feel good about the team for the next two weeks.

Fortunately, it appears MON is more than willing to do his best to get things right. I, for one, do not want to see him buying "quality "players that don't fit the team he wants to build, just to fill holes. That's what loans are for. And if we get, say, three talented players on loan for the rest of the year, then I'm good with that. The manager should build the best total team he can, not just a collection of players sharing the same shirt color. So try to be happy you have a manager who will be selective and look to the future of the club at the same time he looks at the present.

bravo....