Manager Paul Lambert

[Big_John_10]

We have a good manager here who has made almost entirely good signings and is in process of turning us around from such an awful mess.

What evidence are you using to support this statement?

It shows how far our expectations have dropped in the last few seasons when people on other threads are celebrating the fact that we beat Reading 1-2. 

FFS, A few seasons ago beating a team like Reading by only 1 goal would certainly not be a reason to celebrate?! 

Some thought it was impressive that we only lost 1-0 to city.

Lambert's certainly very lucky that he took over from such an unpopular manager.

[DeepDish]

I am still in the pro Lambert camp. But I think we can come up with a verdict after next season. If we are top ten at that time, and the finances has been sorted out, I will judge him as a great manager.

 

I think he has some very good ideas, and I like several of his signings.

[brommy]

Virtually any manager who followed McLeish would have more tolerance shown to him. I expect the reverse will happen to SAF's successor. Context isn't surprising.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

You think Lambert is lucky to have walked into this mess? I'm not so sure myself. 

 

Don't get me wrong I have been very disappointed with certain aspects of his management. That horrendous Christmas period will long live in the memory and he almost certainly took one too many gambles with his signings. However, to say we're in a worse position right now than the same point last season is wholly wrong in my opinion. Maybe at points yes and perhaps statistically we are, I don't really know or care. Form wise and playing ability wise we're a long way ahead of where we were at this point twelve months ago. Then, I was almost certain we were going down. Now, I fancy us to stay up. I think we have momentum and belief. 

 

Bring on QPR.

[praisedmambo]

We have a good manager here who has made almost entirely good signings and is in process of turning us around from such an awful mess.

 

What evidence are you using to support this statement?

>It shows how far our expectations have dropped in the last few seasons when people on other threads are celebrating the fact that we beat Reading 1-2. 

FFS, A few seasons ago beating a team like Reading by only 1 goal would certainly not be a reason to celebrate?! 

Some thought it was impressive that we only lost 1-0 to city.

Lambert's certainly very lucky that he took over from such an unpopular manager.

 

 

We've been through this before. You think he's taken McLeish's team and made it worse, which is not the case. I actually appreciate that he's taken a core of academy players and supplemented them on a very limited budget. The players that left last year would have helped us massively this season, but (and this is key for me) all of them had to go—everyone with a brain knows that. You can't go on losing £53 million a year. Aston Villa would disappear if we kept that up. Don't underestimate the financial mess we've been in as it is the whole reason for the state we're in, and that is the cost of Lerner and MON's attempt at getting into the champions league. It is the cost of our failure. So Lambert has cut the wage bill, which HAD to happen, and that gave him a much less experienced squad than McLeish. The signings, considering how cheap they were and the wage situation have been very very good, with a high success rate (you can't win them all—fact). Our biggest problem has been too few signings and an over reliance on the lesser academy players in our small squad, especially when we had lots of injuries over our bleak period at Christmas.

 

Sir, my evidence is my eyes and my brain, which is what you use to think things through. 

[praisedmambo]

You think Lambert is lucky to have walked into this mess? I'm not so sure myself. 

 

Don't get me wrong I have been very disappointed with certain aspects of his management. That horrendous Christmas period will long live in the memory and he almost certainly took one too many gambles with his signings. However, to say we're in a worse position right now than the same point last season is wholly wrong in my opinion. Maybe at points yes and perhaps statistically we are, I don't really know or care. Form wise and playing ability wise we're a long way ahead of where we were at this point twelve months ago. Then, I was almost certain we were going down. Now, I fancy us to stay up. I think we have momentum and belief. 

 

Bring on QPR.

 

Also, not to mention that the awful wage situation is now about £35 million better off and we finally have a team full of players who can only really get better as opposed to worse. So the long term plan, the health of the club, is finally starting to look better. This is the base from where we can grow. 

[praisedmambo]

Can this phrase be banned for the nonsense it is: "It shows how far our expectations have dropped."

 

It's a stupid and ignores everything that actually happens in reality. Wake up, everything is relative, and we have been relatively shit for ages—for ages, bar a three year renaissance funded by Lerner. The club needs a good sensible sustainable plan now. It is the only way.  

Edited March 10, 2013 by praisedmambo

[Big_John_10]

You think he's taken McLeish's team and made it worse, which is not the case.

How is it not the case? Again what are you basing this on?

We average less points per game than mcleish's team.

We have now conceded more goals than the whole of last season and still have 9 games to play.

Mcleish is probably the most negative manager i've ever seen and yet lamberts team have not been able to score more.

So how is getting less points, letting in more goals and scoring about the same amount of goals not making the team worse?

The players that left last year would have helped us massively this season

Who exactly are these players? I'd love to know.

all of them had to go—everyone with a brain knows that.

Who?

Don't underestimate the financial mess we've been in as it is the whole reason for the state we're in, and that is the cost of Lerner and MON's attempt at getting into the champions league

And i don't think you should use it as an excuse.

and that gave him a much less experienced squad than McLeish.

Who are all these experienced players Lambert had to sell in the summer?

The signings, considering how cheap they were and the wage situation have been very very good

I notice you now add considering how cheap they were when claiming them as successful signings. He had a limited budget but i don't think thats an excuse. I also think considering how poor this season has been that there's very little evidence to suggest his signings have been good. He has signed 3 defenders and created one of the worst defences in the league. Jordan bowery has contributed pretty much **** all to the squad and while westwood looks a tidy player he is not a player that has a big influence on games. Benteke has been superb but overall i think its quite clear he didn't spend his limited budget well.

Sir, my evidence is my eyes and my brain, which is what you use to think things through.

I think both of those seem pretty tinted with love for Lambert given the evidence we've seen so far this season.

[praisedmambo]

Big John there is no hope for you. 

 

Collins, Cuellar, Hutton, Warnock, Heskey (not so much him), and I count Petrov too in the list of players who McLeish had and who Lambert shipped out. All of them are experienced, all of them had to go (never ever forget we were losing £53 million a year, it needed sorting out otherwise Villa don't exist). 

 

As for all the rest of the things I said, you can ignore facts, you can pick and choose all you like but they won't go away. You are very selective and it, in my opinion, seriously impairs your judgement. 

 

We have also had the "Lambert bought three defenders and gave us the worse defence discussion". 

 

Notice those players I listed (the experienced ones on the massive wages, part of the £53 million problem) are four defenders and then add Petrov in to it as the one experienced midfielder we had, who screened our defence. Lambert is down one defender and the screening midfielder captain. Also, BigJohn, actually look at the games we were spanked in and see how, for example, in the 8-0 loss to Chelsea only Lowton was playing out of his "terrible defender signings" and we have been relying on the academy players, which brings me back to the point I made that he has taken a core of academy players, and that we have had to rely too much on them (and some very limited ones at that). 

 

You'll never see the light because you're too stubborn repeating the same tripe over and again. Look at the big picture, factor in the finances and the wages as these are absolutely 100% relevant.  

Edited March 10, 2013 by praisedmambo

[KennyPowers]

I'd be more inclined to cut Lambert some slack if I knew exactly why he bombed out Hutton, Warnock, Ireland and is seemingly trying to embarrass Bent.

 

I'm no huge fan of Hutton, Warnock or Ireland but to think you can buy youngsters from League Two (Westwood), League One (Lowton), and the Championship Bennett) as part of your first XI who will be immediately successful appears to me to be extremely arrogant (well, stupid) to be fair.

[praisedmambo]

**** it, I'm adding Gary Gardner and Robbie Keane too.

 

McLeish got abuse because he had a horrid track record (bar the league cup).

 

Lambert will get time because he has a good track record. 

 

They are total opposites. I'd almost say this situation is more complicated than some people on here seem to care to realise, but I really don't think this is all that complicated if some people actually thought about what they were saying. 

Edited March 10, 2013 by praisedmambo

[praisedmambo]

I'd be more inclined to cut Lambert some slack if I knew exactly why he bombed out Hutton, Warnock, Ireland and is seemingly trying to embarrass Bent.

 

I'm no huge fan of Hutton, Warnock or Ireland but to think you can buy youngsters from League Two (Westwood), League One (Lowton), and the Championship Bennett) as part of your first XI who will be immediately successful appears to me to be extremely arrogant (well, stupid) to be fair.

 

£53 million losses. Adding to debts already over £100 million. All those players are on high wages, don't offer nearly enough, and have no future at the club. It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! If we lose £20 million on wages for these players that is just another £20 million that could have been invested in the team going to players totally unworthy of what they are on. 

Edited March 10, 2013 by praisedmambo

[KennyPowers]

I'd be more inclined to cut Lambert some slack if I knew exactly why he bombed out Hutton, Warnock, Ireland and is seemingly trying to embarrass Bent.

 

I'm no huge fan of Hutton, Warnock or Ireland but to think you can buy youngsters from League Two (Westwood), League One (Lowton), and the Championship Bennett) as part of your first XI who will be immediately successful appears to me to be extremely arrogant (well, stupid) to be fair.

 

£53 million losses. Adding to debts already over £100 million. All those players are on high wages, don't offer nearly enough, and have no future at the club. It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! If we lose £20 million on wages for these players that is just another £20 million that could have been invested in the team going to players totally unworthy of what they are on. 

We didn't sell Warnock. We haven't sold Hutton or Ireland though. That destroys your point.

 

We gave Warnock away, presumably paid him off. We are paying Hutton to play elsewehere and paying Ireland not to play.

[Big_John_10]

Collins, Cuellar, Hutton, Warnock, Heskey (not so much him), and I count Petrov too in the list of players who McLeish had and who Lambert shipped out.

Lambert did not have to sell Cuellar or Heskey.

He also did not sell warnock or hutton in the summer so quite clearly he didn't have to sell them during that summer transfer period. So thats just utter rubbish.

You're also assuming he had to sell collins. I'm sure he chose to sell collins to free up some wages for some of his new signings but that didn't exactly work out to plan did it?

As for all the rest of the things I said, you can ignore facts, you can pick and choose all you like but they won't go away. You are very selective and it, in my opinion, seriously impairs your judgement.

Haha i'm very selective and i ignore facts?

Some nerve when you claim he hasn't made us worse.

Notice those players I listed (the experienced ones on the massive wages, part of the £53 million problem) are four defenders and then add Petrov in to it as the one experienced midfielder we had

He didn't sell warnock or hutton in the summer. He chose to buy two new fullbacks when that money could have gone towards a strong cm player. You're making excuses for him.

Also, BigJohn, actually look at the games we were spanked in and see how, for example, in the 8-0 loss to Chelsea only Lowton was playing out of his "terrible signings"

Why do i need to just look at the games we were spanked in? We've conceded a shit load of goals this season. Lambert chose fo build a new defence in the summer.

which brings me back to the point I made that he has taken a core of academy players, and that we have had to rely too much on them

Mainly thanks to his decisions made in the transfer window and his decisions when it comes to players like ireland, bent, hutton and warnock. Again you are just making excuses for him.

You'll never see the light because you're too stubborn repeating the same ridiculous tripe over and again

Ridiculous tripe? Like actual stats and facts? Like actually looking at results, performances and the league table?

Once again some nerve when you claim we haven't become worse.

Look at the big picture, factor in the finances and the wages as these are absolutely 100% relevant.

I have made my feelings towards the owner clear.

Lambert came into a difficult situation, it doesn't excuse the poor decisions he has kept making.

Explain how lack of experience and financial issues forced him to play a diamond formation with no width.

Explain how a lack of experience and financial issues forced him to on a few occassions pick bowery in the squad over bent.

Explain how a lack of experience and financial issues forced him to play 3-5-2 when it was quite clear it wasn't working.

Poor poor excuses for an awful season which lambert has contributed to with his poor decisions.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Big_John_10

[praisedmambo]

 

I'd be more inclined to cut Lambert some slack if I knew exactly why he bombed out Hutton, Warnock, Ireland and is seemingly trying to embarrass Bent.

 

I'm no huge fan of Hutton, Warnock or Ireland but to think you can buy youngsters from League Two (Westwood), League One (Lowton), and the Championship Bennett) as part of your first XI who will be immediately successful appears to me to be extremely arrogant (well, stupid) to be fair.

 

£53 million losses. Adding to debts already over £100 million. All those players are on high wages, don't offer nearly enough, and have no future at the club. It's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! If we lose £20 million on wages for these players that is just another £20 million that could have been invested in the team going to players totally unworthy of what they are on. 

We didn't sell Warnock. We haven't sold Hutton or Ireland though. That destroys your point.

 

We gave Warnock away, presumably paid him off. We are paying Hutton to play elsewehere and paying Ireland not to play.

 

It's not about a transfer fee, just not paying their wages. My point was because of the wages they have no future at the club (so I was thinking of Ireland and Bent then). Ireland is a bit pants though, isn't he. He's had many opportunities. As for Bent, I'm one that says he doesn't do enough for the team, so I wouldn't start him ahead of the other three anyway. It is all about the money. 

[KennyPowers]

Mambo you should read Big John's comments. I respect that you're trying to be positive about the team but you're just tying yourself in knots.

 

The best explanation I have for Lambert's decisions this year is that he is a manager who relies on team spirit. He's not a tactician or a man motivator, he's a guy who relies on building a team spirit, a shared mentality throughout the team. He has removed experienced players who wouldn't buy into this and favoured young players who are easier to control. It's not an absurd strategy, it's somewhat clever but it has largely failed.

[praisedmambo]

Collins, Cuellar, Hutton, Warnock, Heskey (not so much him), and I count Petrov too in the list of players who McLeish had and who Lambert shipped out.

Lambert did not have to sell Cuellar or Heskey.

He also did not sell warnock or hutton in the summer so quite clearly he didn't have to sell them during that summer transfer period. So thats just utter rubbish.

You're also assuming he had to sell collins. I'm sure he chose to sell collins to free up some wages for some of his new signings but that didn't exactly work out to plan did it?

>As for all the rest of the things I said, you can ignore facts, you can pick and choose all you like but they won't go away. You are very selective and it, in my opinion, seriously impairs your judgement.

Haha i'm very selective and i ignore facts?

Some nerve when you claim he hasn't made us worse.

Notice those players I listed (the experienced ones on the massive wages, part of the £53 million problem) are four defenders and then add Petrov in to it as the one experienced midfielder we had

He didn't sell warnock or hutton in the summer. He chose to buy two new fullbacks when that money could have gone towards a strong cm player. You're making excuses for him.

Also, BigJohn, actually look at the games we were spanked in and see how, for example, in the 8-0 loss to Chelsea only Lowton was playing out of his "terrible signings"

Why do i need to just look at the games we were spanked in? We've conceded a shit load of goals this season. Lambert chose fo build a new defence in the summer.

which brings me back to the point I made that he has taken a core of academy players, and that we have had to rely too much on them

Mainly thanks to his decisions made in the transfer window and his decisions when it comes to players like ireland, bent, hutton and warnock. Again you are just making excuses for him.

You'll never see the light because you're too stubborn repeating the same ridiculous tripe over and again

Ridiculous tripe? Like actual stats and facts? Like actually looking at results, performances and the league table?

Once again some nerve when you claim we haven't become worse.

Look at the big picture, factor in the finances and the wages as these are absolutely 100% relevant.

I have made my feelings towards the owner clear.

Lambert came into a difficult situation, it doesn't excuse the poor decisions he has kept making.

Explain how lack of experience and financial issues forced him to play a diamond formation with no width.

Explain how a lack of experience and financial issues forced him to on a few occassions pick bowery in the squad over bent.

Explain how a lack of experience and financial issues forced him to play 3-5-2 when it was quite clear it wasn't working.

Poor poor excuses for an awful season which lambert has contributed to with his poor decisions.

 

 

Yep, all my points still stand, especially about you not thinking. I think selling Hutton and Warnock was one of his aims in the summer by the way, just that nobody would take them on because of their high wages. You don't seem to grasp the bit about Villa's financial losses requiring not giving fresh contracts to the players who were on too high wages, and moving on other players (even if they never actually went): Cuellar, Collins, Hutton, Warnock, **** it Dunne as well. 

 

It's the whole big picture you're not seeing. Part of it is that this kind of transition, from the mess we were in to a place where we are financially sustainable is a very very difficult job and that improvement on a negative investment (less wages to replace players) and cost cutting agenda is nigh on IMPOSSIBLE. To have us where we are, and I think we will be safe (the late goals have especially ruined us just as injuries have ruined us over christmas) — we are worlds apart from where we were last season. If McLeish had stayed and had continued under such a negative investment, considering the way he spent money I bet we would have been relegated. 

 

The 352, I **** hated it and it did my head in. Managers do things though don't they. They work with the players and see different things. Often, I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. 

[praisedmambo]

Mambo you should read Big John's comments. I respect that you're trying to be positive about the team but you're just tying yourself in knots.

 

The best explanation I have for Lambert's decisions this year is that he is a manager who relies on team spirit. He's not a tactician or a man motivator, he's a guy who relies on building a team spirit, a shared mentality throughout the team. He has removed experienced players who wouldn't buy into this and favoured young players who are easier to control. It's not an absurd strategy, it's somewhat clever but it has largely failed.

 

But you're ignoring the fact that we had to lower the wage bill. I'm sorry but that is absolutely key to everything. 

 

Lambert established a bit of a reputation at Norwich of being a tactician man motivator too. I think at Norwich he was also there for 3 years, not 3/4 of a season, and so had a bit more time to shape the team. 

Edited March 10, 2013 by praisedmambo

[praisedmambo]

(and the fact that we were losing obscene amounts of money, which comes from...where?) 

 

You can't go sailing on a ship that's sinking. First you have to plug the financial holes, and then go. 

[Big_John_10]

Mambo you should read Big John's comments. I respect that you're trying to be positive about the team but you're just tying yourself in knots.

 

The best explanation I have for Lambert's decisions this year is that he is a manager who relies on team spirit. He's not a tactician or a man motivator, he's a guy who relies on building a team spirit, a shared mentality throughout the team. He has removed experienced players who wouldn't buy into this and favoured young players who are easier to control. It's not an absurd strategy, it's somewhat clever but it has largely failed.

 

But you're ignoring the fact that we had to lower the wage bill. I'm sorry but that is absolutely key to everything. 

How was adding two new fullbacks in the summer while still having hutton and warnock training with the youth team helping to lower the wage bill?

Everyone accepts he had to lower the wage bill. No one is arguing with you about that.

What some don't accept is that he spent his limited budget wisely and that actually his decisions in terms of tactics and attitude towards to certain senior players have played a bit part in this awful season.

You seem to excuse everything soley on the fact our wage bill needed to be lowered. It's ridiculous.