Zombies Margaret Thatcher

[Demitri_C]

^{Just out of curosity why is never a thread on James Callaghan being so bad? From what I have read he was awful?}

[PauloBarnesi]

He was in power for a very short time; basically the situation in the 70s seems to have been out of control for any of the politicians, and you might say led to the rise of Thatcher.

You could of course start a thread on him! Or Lord Harold Wilson. Or Edward “Ted” ‘Grocer’ Heath. Or Jeremy Thorpe. Or John Stonehouse. Or Rwoy Jenkins. Or Anthony Crosland. Or Sir Keef Joseph. Or Dame Barbara Castle. Or Lord Denis Healey. Or Michael “Donkey Jacket this is not” Foot. So many greats...

[chrisp65]

^{Just out of curosity why is never a thread on James Callaghan being so bad? From what I have read he was awful?}

To go off topic, you could look at the early works of the Jam and see that they were quite anti Callaghan. Then, either through political enlightenment, a change of circumstances, or cynical exploitation of yoof culture, Mr Weller decided to be anti tory instead.

[drat01]

Its well known in political circles He was forced out by Brown who finally got the goods on him after years of trying... Kindly wrapped up in a neat bundle by Jack Straw is the word on the street

So he was forced out by his party in much the same way Thatcher was ... New Year , New Fail :-)

Oh Tony you are so wrong again - its as though you have not learned a thing is it? :-)

So you wont accept that the Tory party - as Peter mentions - got rid of Thatcher?

Now this "word on the street" you keep using as some sort of fact, care to share where it is documented?

As this BBC article of the say shows, members of parliament from all parties gave him a standing ovation - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243558.stm - even Cameron commented on the success that Blair had achieved. He had stated before the 2005 election that he would not lead the Labour party into a 4th election. There was a lot of debate in the party as to when he should resign some thinking that it should be earlier rather than later to allow any successor greater time in office. There was always going to be an election for the next leader, except as in this case someone stood unopposed.

Now I appreciate as a Tory it must be pretty upsetting for you for a Labour leader to win 3 elections with such large majorities, especially when Cameron couldn't even win a majority despite a supposedly unpopular Labour leader in Brown and the tax avoidance millions of Ashcroft and the finance world. Ah well c'est la vie as they say in France :-)

[drat01]

He was in power for a very short time; basically the situation in the 70s seems to have been out of control for any of the politicians, and you might say led to the rise of Thatcher.

You could of course start a thread on him! Or Lord Harold Wilson. Or Edward “Ted” ‘Grocer’ Heath. Or Jeremy Thorpe. Or John Stonehouse. Or Rwoy Jenkins. Or Anthony Crosland. Or Sir Keef Joseph. Or Dame Barbara Castle. Or Lord Denis Healey. Or Michael “Donkey Jacket this is not” Foot. So many greats...

Interesting your bias for Labour political figures there Paul ......hmmmmmm sill claiming not be anti-Labour? :-)

[VillaForever1970]

drat01 have Labour made any mistakes and the Conservative done anything decent in your opinion?

You seem very biased, thats all

[drat01]

drat01 have Labour made any mistakes and the Conservative done anything decent in your opinion?

You seem very biased, thats all

I could easily say that bias is very much the same for many others on here, AWOL, Tony , yourself to quote a few.

Have you ever praised a Labour (or Lib dem)?

Of course all political parties have made mistakes, I am old enough to have lived (and suffered) under Tory Gvmts and have seen and am still seeing the many vindictive policies that they impose that are not mistakes but borne out of a thinking that IMO has no place in a modern so called caring democracy.

Again though maybe you can explain why your anti Labour bias for example is so strong and why you are very biased ?

[Awol]

I could easily say that bias is very much the same for many others on here, AWOL, Tony , yourself to quote a few.

I've voted Labour before Drat, have you ever voted Tory?

[lapal_fan]

Ok then, maybe as someone who has voted for both in the past.

Drat, do you believe that the Conservatives have done anything of merit in the past?

I wish people in here would stop answering questions, with questions.. maybe if this was outlawed we could fix some problems rather than the seemingly one-up-man-ship that goes on in the houses of parliment these days.

[drat01]

Ok then, maybe as someone who has voted for both in the past.

Drat, do you believe that the Conservatives have done anything of merit in the past?

I wish people in here would stop answering questions, with questions.. maybe if this was outlawed we could fix some problems rather than the seemingly one-up-man-ship that goes on in the houses of parliment these days.

:-) - you obviously miss the irony of your comment re questions AWOL :-) EDIT: Sorry I meant Lapal - apologies to both of you

I am honestly struggling to think of anything of significance that the Tory party has done that would be "of merit".

As said many times key issues for me are things like NHS, Public services, Welfare, workers rights etc, something that the Tory party have IMO a very poor record on based a lot of the ideology of the party and its supporters and backers. Maybe as a Tory supporter you can or any of the others list things I should consider.

As also said ALL political parties make mistakes, despite what they may have you think they don't know what the future will bring and when policies introduced the subsequently "fail" that is then a good subject for comment and review as to what the thought process was behind the original decision and what they intend to do now

I've voted Labour before Drat, have you ever voted Tory?

No - and probably would not do so unless they changed their key fundamental policies and ideas.

Why did you vote Labour at the time?

Edited January 3, 2013 by drat01

[Awol]

Why did you vote Labour at the time?

Youthful ignorance.

[tonyh29]

I could easily say that bias is very much the same for many others on here, AWOL, Tony , yourself to quote a few.

Interesting that you've adopted the "ahhhh but .... " defence for you reply :-)

I've praised labour a few times and also openly criticised Cameron and the Tory party... It's just by and large the Labour Party happen to have made an arse of things hence why I don't praise them frequently

I was in favour of Brown increasing the school leaving age , if I recall at the time , many where against such a policy

I just happen to agree with more Tory policies that labour ones

[PauloBarnesi]

Interesting your bias for Labour political figures there Paul ......hmmmmmm sill claiming not be anti-Labour? :-)

Called bang to rights: must have been that insult to arch Labourite Eddie Heath...

[tonyh29]

Oh Tony you are so wrong again - its as though you have not learned a thing is it? :-)

So you wont accept that the Tory party - as Peter mentions - got rid of Thatcher?

Now this "word on the street" you keep using as some sort of fact, care to share where it is documented?

As this BBC article of the say shows, members of parliament from all parties gave him a standing ovation - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243558.stm - even Cameron commented on the success that Blair had achieved. He had stated before the 2005 election that he would not lead the Labour party into a 4th election. There was a lot of debate in the party as to when he should resign some thinking that it should be earlier rather than later to allow any successor greater time in office. There was always going to be an election for the next leader, except as in this case someone stood unopposed.

Now I appreciate as a Tory it must be pretty upsetting for you for a Labour leader to win 3 elections with such large majorities, especially when Cameron couldn't even win a majority despite a supposedly unpopular Labour leader in Brown and the tax avoidance millions of Ashcroft and the finance world. Ah well c'est la vie as they say in France :-)

I made no mention to Thatcher , her ousting was well documented , and she also received standing ovations from all parties and even got invited to Number 10 a few times by Blair to give him some form of credibility :-)

My reply was directly to your post that Blair resigned as if it was of his own making ... It wasn't , simples

[drat01]

Interesting that you've adopted the "ahhhh but .... " defence for you reply :-)

I've praised labour a few times and also openly criticised Cameron and the Tory party... It's just by and large the Labour Party happen to have made an arse of things hence why I don't praise them frequently

I was in favour of Brown increasing the school leaving age , if I recall at the time , many where against such a policy

I just happen to agree with more Tory policies that labour ones

That makes no sense Tony, I was singled out (as have done before) by Tory supporters on VT and quite rightly in the context of the question I asked the same back. That has no relevance to often used and correct accusation that deflection of questioning of Tory policies is met with "ahhh but Labour ...." reply

I really am failing to see what the basis of this whole interrogation is hoping to prove. As said I vote based on criteria that is important for me and my family, followed by the country in general. I am old enough to have been through quite a few elections and while I can see real evidence of say Labour changing there has always been a core set of values that the Tory party and its supporters subscribe to that a lot of the time I find unacceptable. If they ever changed then maybe they would be worthy of consideration but from what I have seen and what I see now that will never happen

I am pleased that you no longer live by your once quoted VT thing of "better dead than Red" which may have been said in jest I don't know. I am still waiting for a list of the things that a Tory Gvmt has done that is orthy of praise. It maybe that I (and others) are forgetting something.

[drat01]

Called bang to rights: must have been that insult to arch Labourite Eddie Heath...

:-) You know the basis of the comment Paul, come on. Your list was certainly littered with Labour political figures from history. Your previous claims of being impartial was the basis of the comment (and hence the smiley). No mention of Lawson, Selwyn Gummer, Major, Tebbitt etc :-)

[drat01]

I made no mention to Thatcher , her ousting was well documented , and she also received standing ovations from all parties and even got invited to Number 10 a few times by Blair to give him some form of credibility :-)

My reply was directly to your post that Blair resigned as if it was of his own making ... It wasn't , simples

again Tony you have not said anything that backs that up though. At least as part of my counter argument I put forward some well documented facts as opposed to your "word on the street" comment.

As many have said previously there was a lot more venom from within the ranks of the Tory party towards Thatcher that led to her downfall. Maybe Blair was more organised :-)

[tonyh29]

That makes no sense Tony, I was singled out (as have done before) by Tory supporters on VT and quite rightly in the context of the question I asked the same back. That has no relevance to often used and correct accusation that deflection of questioning of Tory policies is met with "ahhh but Labour ...." reply

I really am failing to see what the basis of this whole interrogation is hoping to prove. As said I vote based on criteria that is important for me and my family, followed by the country in general. I am old enough to have been through quite a few elections and while I can see real evidence of say Labour changing there has always been a core set of values that the Tory party and its supporters subscribe to that a lot of the time I find unacceptable. If they ever changed then maybe they would be worthy of consideration but from what I have seen and what I see now that will never happen

I am pleased that you no longer live by your once quoted VT thing of "better dead than Red" which may have been said in jest I don't know. I am still waiting for a list of the things that a Tory Gvmt has done that is orthy of praise. It maybe that I (and others) are forgetting something.

Im interested to know what these core differences are

Tories started privatising industry, labour carried it on

Labour started privatising the NHS, the Tories seem content to follow the policy

There hasn't been a lot Between the policies in a while every since labour turned blue

[PauloBarnesi]

:-) You know the basis of the comment Paul, come on. Your list was certainly littered with Labour political figures from history. Your previous claims of being impartial was the basis of the comment (and hence the smiley). No mention of Lawson, Selwyn Gummer, Major, Tebbitt etc :-)

Keef was very much active in the 80s as was Foot, but most were from the 70s if not the 60s as the original question was about Jim who was a prime minister in the 70s after Harold Wilson

[drat01]

Tony - I think you are missing a key point in this conversation. As AWOL pointed out the whole idea of selling off the key services is something that the Tory party went at hell for leather and subsequent sell offs by Labour for example were nowhere near the levels that Thatcher robbed the country by doing. You could not buy them back as such, it was a one off thing that we suffer from now. Look at the debacle re train prices that was all over the media yesterday. I think your attempt to try and claim that subsequent Labour policies are in some way akin to those that Thacher went through are way off the mark and an attempt to deflect questioning the relative merits of them

As for your comments re the NHS you are obviously avoiding the news today about how Thatchers Gvmt were seriously considering privatisation of schooling and the NHS - have a read its interesting especially the spin and lies that followed when she and her Gvmt were questioned about it