Relegation

[Mantis]

We're not the worst team in the league.

[briny_ear]

In a way I agree,

The manager that started this whole thing off can be part blamed on MON for the high structure wages he paid championship average players.

When this amount of money is wasted it does not leave the team in regards to finances in a good position.

RL had no choice but to hold back to re-balance the books etc. over the last couple of seasons.

It has taken nearly 3 managers later for all of the high earning crap to be cleared out and money freed up eventually hence why we signed two piss poor managers prior to PL.

RL was never going to give GH or Eck shitloads to spend for the fact that we where still trying to balance the books and trim the wage bill on players not featuring in the team. Unfortunately it was also the decent players we had also left the club before all the crap was sold (Heskey, Beye, Sidwell, Salifou etc.)

Now RL has made the point he wants to restructure the club in terms of the team and he will back lambert once again.

Come the start of next season Stan & possibly Delph may be the only players left from the MON era. (Unless Stan retires & I don't think delph is Prem lge quality but thats another case for the delph thread)

Warnock and Dunne will leave the club and so will possibly GH & Ecks remaining signings of Makoun, Ireland, Bent, Hutton, N'Zogbia and possibly given will also leave.

All that will be left is a combination of Villa's own product and PL's current signings and I feel the rot will have stopped and all the high earners and average players will be gone.

Combine that with our 10th-16th place finnish this season - Yes that's right we're not going to be relegated!, and a good foundation in place we will be then set and restructured going into next season more stronger and possibly challenge for a 8th-14th place finnish in what will only be PL 2nd season and already improvement shown.

Again this will need time, patience and full backing.

Imagine the merry go round we would have to go round again if PL was sacked, the next manager would have to come in and start all over again and delay putting this club back on track.

As for the fans, well yes we may have been the only decent thing about this club in the last 3 ways (debatable) .. let's hope we can add to it for a fourth season and get behind the team and not panic and shout relegation.

That’s a brave attempt at fanning the dying embers of the “it’s all MON’s fault” argument (originally © General Krulak) but I think most people would now concede at least some of this has to be laid at Mr Lerner’s door. I would argue it’s almost entirely down to his poor running of the club.

MON didn’t pay anyone any level of wages. The only people paid by MON were maybe his kids when they got pocket money. The players’ wages were determined and paid by Randy Lerner and it is clear he was spending at a level he couldn’t sustain in the first three seasons of his ownership, when he had an unrealistic ambition to challenge for a top 4 place. He then hit the panic button and allowed most of our excellent talented players to go without being properly replaced. He appointed two completely useless managers who compounded the problem by producing rubbish football that led to lower crowd numbers, and spent what money they had rather badly – Ireland, Makoun, N’Zogbia, Hutton, Given, these are all players who can’t get a regular place in the squad but none were bought by MON. Even the one exception I would make – Bent – came at a very high price and can’t now get in the side because we don’t have the players for the only style of football that suits him.

I think the fans are starting to say “enough is enough”. A third season of struggling with relegation is going to test their patience immensely, however likeable and well-intentioned our current manager is. It seems Lerner’s new plan for the club is to try to survive in the Premier League while paying Championship level wages and there’s only one place that is going to take us.

He’s got the January window to try to sort this and stem the decline. After that, I must say, while I voted “unsure” in the poll, I have a very bad feeling about this squad and its ability to cope.

[Mantis]

Funny how you mention Houllier and McLeish spending money badly yet neglect to mention that O'Neill was by far the worst for that.

[Big_John_10]

We're really going to start blaming Mon again? Really?

There seems to be this idea that its automatic that we'll click as a team, sign quality players in jan and be fine. But could that blind optimism be applied to all the teams who are going to be fighting relegation this year?

I think we're one of the worst teams in the league and easily the most boring. I don't think we have one single entertaining player.

[Mantis]

Who's blaming him? All I'm saying is that he was the worst of the lot for wasting money.

[CI]

Come January I think we'll find it nigh on impossible to recruit the right calibre of players. For multiple reasons :-

1) Our standing overall as a football club

2) league position

3) our new championship esque wage structure

4) Paul Lambert and his track record of working primarily in the lower leagues

5) Paul Lamberts dour nature

[Mantis]

People seem to be forgetting Lambert bought 3 players from abroad this summer.

[CI]

Yes and none of them have "hit the ground running" which is what will be needed come January. KEA particularly looks well short on PL quality. Vlaar is hit & miss, Benteke is showing good signs.

[AVFCforever1991]

Vlaar has been immense in some games..

[markavfc40]

That’s a brave attempt at fanning the dying embers of the “it’s all MON’s fault” argument (originally © General Krulak) but I think most people would now concede at least some of this has to be laid at Mr Lerner’s door. I would argue it’s almost entirely down to his poor running of the club.

MON didn’t pay anyone any level of wages. The only people paid by MON were maybe his kids when they got pocket money. The players’ wages were determined and paid by Randy Lerner and it is clear he was spending at a level he couldn’t sustain in the first three seasons of his ownership, when he had an unrealistic ambition to challenge for a top 4 place. He then hit the panic button and allowed most of our excellent talented players to go without being properly replaced. He appointed two completely useless managers who compounded the problem by producing rubbish football that led to lower crowd numbers, and spent what money they had rather badly – Ireland, Makoun, N’Zogbia, Hutton, Given, these are all players who can’t get a regular place in the squad but none were bought by MON. Even the one exception I would make – Bent – came at a very high price and can’t now get in the side because we don’t have the players for the only style of football that suits him.

I think the fans are starting to say “enough is enough”. A third season of struggling with relegation is going to test their patience immensely, however likeable and well-intentioned our current manager is. It seems Lerner’s new plan for the club is to try to survive in the Premier League while paying Championship level wages and there’s only one place that is going to take us.

He’s got the January window to try to sort this and stem the decline. After that, I must say, while I voted “unsure” in the poll, I have a very bad feeling about this squad and its ability to cope.

Very good post Briny.

Have to say that I do find the lets blame it on Mon game all a bit tiresome now. Did he buy some crap – yes – did we put some players on wages they subsequently didn’t warrant during his tenure – yes but its debatable whether or not he negotiated those contracts.

Bottom line in the Mon years is this for me. When he came in we were on the slide. We had narrowly avoided relegation the season before and crowds were dwindling. In 4 years he spent a net of around 80 mill (less if you include the sale of Milner a week after he left )and in his final 3 seasons we had the 8^th, 6^th and 6^th highest wage bill in the league ( not sure on wage figures in his first season ). During those three seasons we finished 6^th three times on the spin for the first time in over 50 years. We played in Europe, we reached a major final for the first time in a decade and we competed for a Champions League spot till the last month of the season twice. We regularly gave the big boys a game and never lost a local derby. We averaged over 40k for the first time in way over 50 years and had another two years with average crowds of around 39k.

I think given what he inherited and who we were competing against he achieved about what I’d expect.

As in life in football you generally reap what you sow. Under O’Neill we spent a few quid, had the 6^th highest wage bill and hey ho were finishing top 6,competing for a Champions League spot, competing in the latter stages of cup competitions and attendances were high.

Over the last two years we have cut back recklessly, made two shite managerial appointments and spent 90% of the last 2 seasons in or around the relegation zone with this season heading the same way. On top of the above we have in the main been served up tripe and it is therefore no surprise that attendances have dwindled.

Lerner is certainly reaping what he has sowed and sadly we are being made to suffer.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Top post Mark, spot on!

[CI]

Vlaar has been immense in some games..

I think that's a little Mis-leading.

Id say he has "immense" moments within games (some of his blocks on Saturday were extraordinarily immense) coupled with worrying errors in the same game (see Holt getting clear for two 1 on 1's)

[Mantis]

People seem to be missing the point. Yes we were ok under O'Neill but it was backed up by heavy spending which was never going to be sustainable. Yes Randy obviously has to take a portion of the blame for this but when he finally realised his mistake and tried to get the finances under control O'Neill walked, something which people blame Randy for. So in other words he gets criticized for letting the finances get out of control but he also get criticized for trying to bring them under control.

[AVFCforever1991]

I blame Lerner.

[AVFCforever1991]

People seem to be missing the point. Yes we were ok under O'Neill but it was backed up by heavy spending which was never going to be sustainable. Yes Randy obviously has to take a portion of the blame for this but when he finally realised his mistake and tried to get the finances under control O'Neill walked, something which people blame Randy for. So in other words he gets criticized for letting the finances get out of control but he also get criticized for trying to bring them under control.

I think there needs to be some middle ground, Lerner just seems to go from 1 extreme to the next.

[villan_007]

Come January I think we'll find it nigh on impossible to recruit the right calibre of players. For multiple reasons :-

1) Our standing overall as a football club

2) league position

3) our new championship esque wage structure

4) Paul Lambert and his track record of working primarily in the lower leagues

5) Paul Lamberts dour nature

Interviewer: "We heard that you were possibly signing for Villa? what happened?"

Player X: "I was all for it, but as soon as I spoke to paul I just found him too boring. I have to work with a manager that tells me a few jokes a day, the football is secondary"

[Big_John_10]

Well mantis might explain it as realising his mistake but lets face it, it was a massive **** up which has set this club back years.

There was one man who should have had a clear picture of the clubs finances, there was one man who should have had a clear plan regarding the clubs finances and there was one man who ultimatley was in charge of everything and that wasn't Mon.

Lerner ran the club so badly, that after our best season in years we had to sell our best player and spend no money. And mantis and others shrug that off as a little mistake.

Also the only reason Mon still gets some of the blame is because of how much of a **** up lerner has been since the minute o'neill left. If we'd replaced him with a decent manager and given them the funds made available to mcleish, houllier and the compensation paid out to 3 managers and our rivals does anyone think we'd be in this position now?

I think we'd still be a top 8 side right now if we'd made the right appointment after Mon and we wouldn't be on here moaning about lerner or ex managers right now.

But because Lerner is the might **** up that he is we do find ourselves in this position.

[Mantis]

Where did I shrug that off as a little mistake? Stop putting words into my mouth FFS.

[cbr600rr]

mon spent & we did well..fact..when rl took over he paid doug 60m (about) but the real price was around 80m,doug wanted 20m spent on the team,,rl funded 20m on the team, now here we are.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Yes and none of them have "hit the ground running" which is what will be needed come January. KEA particularly looks well short on PL quality. Vlaar is hit & miss, Benteke is showing good signs.

I will take Vlaar being hit & miss versus last years, "catastrophe or backs to the wall block" central defenders.

I actually think our back 4 is significantly better than last year with Lamberts signings. Now thats better relatively speaking, I am not suggesting its good for the league but certainly its a small step up for us.