2012 Tour de France

[RunRickyRun]

It's hard for Nibali to attack with Sky so strong. Ideally, he needed 3 or 4 guys to put out a pace that would isolate Wiggins and Froome but in the end only Basso was up to the job.

I think he's happy enough to consolodate his 3rd place. If he attacks from the off tomorrow, he risks been reeled in by Sky then losing big time to the other contenders.

[El-Reacho]

Sky's dominance has nullified the whole Tour this year. It will be interesting to see what they do next year because Brailsford is likely to have to make a decision between building a team around Wiggins and letting Froome go elsewhere, which would leave Wiggins a lot more vulnerable in the mountains, or else making Froome captain - in which case he could have a GC contender for the next 6-7 years.

Imagine Wiggins, Froome, Nibali, Contador, Schleck Junior, Hesjedal, Van Garderan, Van den Broeck, and Rolland all leading their teams at next year's tour.

If Froome had done what Roche did in the Giro in 87 it could have been a real soap opera.

[PauloBarnesi]

Lets be honest, its been boring. Someone like Andy Schleck has been missed, as has Contador. But the Tours have been pretty boring for a long time as a whole; the strong arming by teams, the great time trialling and controlling it in the mountains. Nothing compares to the 89 Tour. What we want is the yellow being traded between cyclists on a daily basis. People constantly attacking.

As for Froome leaving Sky; not sure he will. No one else will be able to pay him as much, and I doubt he would have such a strong team behind him. But you never know.

It will still be great to have a British winner in Paris...

[Jon]

Lets be honest, its been boring.

I've been gripped by almost every single stage in all honestly. Absolutely love it, and every stage throws up something different.

I also love to see dominant teams, the employment of tactics and the like. I actually prefer that than simply seeing guys sans teams having a go all the time.

Tactics can be what the tour is all about, and it seems to me that Sky have got theirs spot on.

Like an 'exciting' game of chess, if that were possible.

It's been superb, for me anyway.

[Jon]

Sky's dominance has nullified the whole Tour this year.

Why is that though?

Personally, I doubt the entire team is doping!?

So then, how do they do it, and why aren't the other teams able to live with them, on the whole?

The TDF really is a team race, with a team leader, and so Sky seem to have it spot on, and the others don't.

[villa89]

If thats the case, it throws his "I was posioned" arguement straight out of the window.

You can throw that out the window anyway. Talk about getting your excuses in early. "I already know my B sample is going to test positive beacuse I've been doping so I'll be claiming I got poisoned when that happens. Eventhough none of my team mates tested positive and we all eat the same food." Would have been refreshing for him to just admit he's a doper. I had hoped that the schleks would be clean but obviously they (and many others) still aren't. Cycling still has its head buried in the sand when it comes to tackling doping properly though.

I agree that its been a really boring tour this year. No battle for the green or Yellow jersey and not enough genuine contenders for either of those jersey's. Hopefully next years will be better if Contador, Schlek and Others are back to challenge Wiggins.

[El-Reacho]

Sky's dominance has nullified the whole Tour this year.

Why is that though?

Personally, I doubt the entire team is doping!?

So then, how do they do it, and why aren't the other teams able to live with them, on the whole?

The TDF really is a team race, with a team leader, and so Sky seem to have it spot on, and the others don't.

I honestly can't remember a team that has been able to bring two riders over the line pretty much together on all of the mountain stages. Riis and Ullrich might be the last team to be able to do it. They've always had at least one other rider starting the final climb if not two. They all ride to Wiggins' tempo so there's no accelerations, just constant high pace.

It seems that it is just having by far and away the strongest team has done it for them.

I definitely do not believe that it is innovative marginal gains that has done it for them - like reccying the stages, or warming down, or a swim coach.... and I think it's disrespectful to the other teams for them to suggest that it is. But if it's legitimate innovation in training techniques then fair play and why should they disclose them.

[Jon]

I definitely do not believe that it is innovative marginal gains that has done it for them -

Jens Voight thinks it is. Interviewed on ITV4 the other day, and he attributed Sky/Wiggins' dominance to exactly that.

Getting (clean) 1% advantages here and there can make all the difference, and that is what he said Sky had done.

and he's not one of them.

Someone also said to me that this has been one of the 'slowest' tours of recent years - also adding weight to the 'Clean' nature of the leaders, possibly.

Really enjoying this tour, and really enjoying seeing a hard working, clean British rider out in front, riding for a 'British' team.

Shows what can be done, with the right application.

[Jon]

But if it's legitimate innovation in training techniques then fair play and why should they disclose them.

and so how would you like Sky to 'prove' to you that they are clean? :?

[PauloBarnesi]

Lets be honest, its been boring.

I've been gripped by almost every single stage in all honestly. Absolutely love it, and every stage throws up something different.

I also love to see dominant teams, the employment of tactics and the like. I actually prefer that than simply seeing guys sans teams having a go all the time.

Tactics can be what the tour is all about, and it seems to me that Sky have got theirs spot on.

Like an 'exciting' game of chess, if that were possible.

It's been superb, for me anyway.

If you get gripped by some of those flat land stages, then paint drying must excite you

I think we had some great tours in the 80s, but I am struggling to think of many in the 90s and beyond that have been great from a yellow jersey point of view; Indurain was a bit boring for me. Riis, Ullrich, Pantani were fine, and then Armstrong made the whole thing tedious. I guess Contador, Schleck and Evans will have excited some, but I find them pretty uninteresting.

I think also this has been the end of the winner of the grand Tours racing anything else. Sure Wiggins has done Paris-Nice, Tour of Romandie and the Dauphne (and very well), but he’s certainly not going to make a go of the classics...

But as I ve said; I am delighted for British cycling.

[El-Reacho]

But if it's legitimate innovation in training techniques then fair play and why should they disclose them.

and so how would you like Sky to 'prove' to you that they are clean? :?

What about publishing their blood values? That's not giving any of the tricks of their trade away. Brad even said that he felt it should be done a couple of years ago.

What about employing an independent expert to verify their blood values like Armstrong said he was going to do but then never bothered?

What about not hiring riders and staff that have been tainted by dope scandals of the past, again as Brad himself suggested a couple of years ago.

What about confronting the inevitable questions that are going to be asked of any TdF leader with regard to doping in stead of having a strop or having the team's PR director ban people from press conferences for asking them? David Millar brings up doping in every interview he does, why do Sky brush it under the carpet as though it's not an issue in this sport?

I've said before that in my opinion, due to the current state of professional cycling the onus is on the riders to illustrate that they are clean and answer the questions demanded of them to prove it. Benefit of the doubt has all been used up.

[El-Reacho]

I definitely do not believe that it is innovative marginal gains that has done it for them -

Jens Voight thinks it is. Interviewed on ITV4 the other day, and he attributed Sky/Wiggins' dominance to exactly that.

Getting (clean) 1% advantages here and there can make all the difference, and that is what he said Sky had done.

and he's not one of them.

Someone also said to me that this has been one of the 'slowest' tours of recent years - also adding weight to the 'Clean' nature of the leaders, possibly.

Really enjoying this tour, and really enjoying seeing a hard working, clean British rider out in front, riding for a 'British' team.

Shows what can be done, with the right application.

On the other hand Sky's DS Servais Knaven, said the other night that it was purely down to Froome and Wiggins' talent and that the marginal gains theory was over blown by the media.

I had no idea this guy was working for Sky too - Wasn't Knaven thrown out of the Tour along with his TVM teammates as they were being investigated for systematic doping? Once again the Wiggins of two years ago wouldn't have allowed this guy near the race or his team.

I know that pretty much anyone who has raced in the last few years can be linked to a doping scandal however tenuously, and that realistically an top professional cycling team has to get guys with experience - but why are Sky recruiting these guys - Barry, the Dutch Doctor, and Knaven etc. who were at the very heart of these scandals?

I thought Brailsford's explanation for hiring that Dutch Doctor was laughable to be honest - because they needed someone who could treat serious saddle sores and had experience of extreme hot weather? The only guy available just happens to have been Rabobank's Doctor?

If those are genuine reasons why is he not here at the Tour? A saddle sore might be the only thing other than a stupid crash that could cost Brad the Tour?

[OutByEaster?]

Is anyone going to make a serious attempt to attack Wiggins during this tour or did the field pretty much take a look at team SKY on the third day and just give it up?

It's great that we have a Brit in such a strong position, but it's not the most dramatic of tours - when was the last time someone will have worn yellow for this long - it's been almost uncontested.

[villa89]

Is anyone going to make a serious attempt to attack Wiggins during this tour or did the field pretty much take a look at team SKY on the third day and just give it up?

Nibali will proably have a go at them (Wiggins and Froome) but they'll just mark him and wait for the time trial.

[El-Reacho]

^^ Maybe Indurain? I know that he's held it longer than Armstrong ever did. It was definitely in the mould of an Indurain win - take jersey in the pre-mountain TT and defend.

[PauloBarnesi]

The only guy available just happens to have been Michael Rasmussan's Doctor?

I thought he was the team doctor, not the personal doctor. Wow thats terrible.

[Eames]

^^ Maybe Indurain? I know that he's held it longer than Armstrong ever did. It was definitely in the mould of an Indurain win - take jersey in the pre-mountain TT and defend.

Ahh Miguel, win the prologue, wear yellow. Repeat.

To be fair to Indurain though, he was able to blast out of the front and win non TT stages as well in the mountains.

[El-Reacho]

The only guy available just happens to have been Michael Rasmussan's Doctor?

I thought he was the team doctor, not the personal doctor. Wow thats terrible.

Duly corrected Paulo. He was Rabobank's team Doctor.

[PauloBarnesi]

I think doctors in all professional sports are facing a lot of issues. I know that some of them realise that they have to deal with doping athletes. They could walk away, but like many people they stick with the job; some try to advise and keep the athletes from killing themselves. Some of them are actively involved in the doping process. Some of them avoid it actively.

Whatever the case its murky, and I certainly think its more widespread then people want to believe. Britain certainly isn’t perfect, but its a lot better than say China, the USA, Spain and Italy...

[El-Reacho]

Nibali cracked...