PauloBarnesi Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Oh and can Liggett and Sherwyn remove their heads from BMC’s arse. Is that because Sherwyn used to work for Motorola, manager Jim Ochowicz, manager of BMC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted July 9, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2012 Personally I think the generation in the 80s were the ones who changed it; Anderson refusing to drink perrier and drinking Coke instead, the 7/11 team, but more than anyone the legend that is LeMond. First million dollar rider. Did what the hell he wanted, much to the annoyance of the Badger, etc. I think its hard to imagine Armstrong ever existing without LeMond. LeMond got the US interested (wasn’t he the first cycling Sports Illustrated winner?) and the TV networks. He was also the first to get all of the big sponsorship deals. By the later 1990s though, the US had basically forgotten. The Tour was back to getting an hour a week of highlights. LeMond was viewed as a one-off American in a European sport, and that's not really the perception today. I agree that sans LeMond, no Armstrong (the John the Baptist :: Jesus analogy is perhaps appropriate). In 1992, I get the impression (I was ten years old, after all) that most American cycling fans (and the general public) were of the view that it would be decades before another American did well at the Tour. Now, you'd be hard-pressed to say that Tejay van Garderen won't be nibbling around the podium for the next several years. That hasn't happened post-Armstrong. Yes, the ratings on NBC Sports (f/k/a Versus, f/k/a OLN) are roughly half what they were in '04 or '05, but that's about the percentage that, say, NBA ratings fell after Jordan retired (and just as with Jordan, Armstrong's unretirement didn't really change things). Landis didn't dent it, and I think that the American sports public is somewhat indifferent to doping anyway (baseball wasn't really affected by a run of doping scandals which rivals cycling in scale: it's pretty much consensus that most of the star players from a 20 year period were on 'roids). If nothing else, what is the aim of athletic competition if not "performance enhancement"? *: I love how Van Garderen's wiki page notes that he is of Dutch descent. No shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ^^ I notice Nike are no longer part of the Tour. I'm not sure they have any sponsorship in cycling anymore? I remember they came in and threw money at the sport after Armstrong's first win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Froome’s performance I agree are remarkable; he was a virtually unknown cyclist until the Vuelta. I have to say that when I was watching it I thought his performance was a little "too" good. If you look at his build compared to the build of Cancellara or even wiggins you would not expect him to be a good time trialler. Good in the mountains but not good on a flat time trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Radioshack's issues regarding team leadership had no bearing on Fabian's performance today because he said when he finished he felt that no one would beat his time. Radioshack are in utter chaos. The word was that the recent article in the Dutch newspaper was actually placed by the former manager of USPS, none other than the missing Bruyneel. Cancellera can say what he likes, but he’s not the unbeatable figure he was. Froome’s performance I agree are remarkable; he was a virtually unknown cyclist until the Vuelta. I certainly didn’t know he was going to be released by Sky. As for Sky like USPS. Maybe more like La vie Claire Therein lies the strange allure of the sport. I agree with you about BMC yet am still pulling for Cadel. I still follow this sport religiously despite the fact that logic suggests that it is corrupt to the core and I should just switch off. Surely you can see the similarities between Sky and USPS though? Lance and Johan were giving us all of this stuff about the detail they went into to shave off milliseconds, they all add up. It was about knowing the routes inside out etc. But as you rightly say Radioshack are in chaos. I know Lance and Bruyneel aren't there but they own the team surely they would have instilled those same values in the staff and riders? I disagree with you re. Fabian though. He's had a bad year with injuries and that but I think he's still at the top of his game. Sherwen and Liggett will have their heads up the ass of all three of the American teams because that's were their wages come from. I think ITV4 pay a negligible amount of money to use their commentary feed but the American networks are the guys that are footing the bill for it - maybe someone could correct me on that? I think they'll both be forced into retirement if Lance does get convicted. They've invested both of their reputations on him being clean. The Motorola clique of the 90's still seems to be very tight though doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Are people suggesting that say Wiggins has doped throughout his career, or just now? Are people suggesting the doping is encouraged by Brailsford? Are people suggesting Cavendish is on drugs? Was Boardman on drugs? Was Cancellara on drugs to beat Wiggy in the prologue? Are the entire British track cycling team on drugs? Are people also therefore saying that Wiggy has been on drugs all season (he has come into this tour as favourite after all - after 3 big wins). Was Froome on drugs during the Tour of Spain last season. It's nonsense. I would say it's impossible to answer any of those questions Jon. Only the very inner core of professional cycling could answer them with any certainty. The one I would answer with most conviction is that no, Chris Boardman was not on drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 One thing is for sure, is that Boardo is tight. Of course I can see similarities between USPS and Sky, but the first really super team which redefined the sport IMO was La vie Claire, coached by Paul Keochli, who applied science and preparation and the selection of riders to a new level. Look at the dominance of the sport, something Sky or USPS will never reach; 85 Tour, 1, 2 & 10, 86 Tour 1, 2, 4 & 7. Quiet why Tapei decided to dump Hampsten and Lemond is beyond me! By the way I love this quote from a judge yesterday on Lance "This Court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong's desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification of Defendants, by sifting through eighty mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of factual material relevant to his claims." and in the footnotes Contrary to Armstrong's apparent belief, pleadings filed in the United States District Courts are not press releases, internet blogs, or pieces of investigative journalism. All parties, and their lawyers, are expected to comply with the rules of this Court, and face potential sanctions if they do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 ^^ I notice Nike are no longer part of the Tour. I'm not sure they have any sponsorship in cycling anymore? I remember they came in and threw money at the sport after Armstrong's first win. And it was one of the issues; that Nike sponsored the tour, and they also sponsored the star athlete. Certainly evidence exists of Oakley’s public support of Armstrong and yet behind his back they weren’t sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 http://alturl.com/ymxo4 Cofidis have been raided this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 One thing is for sure, is that Boardo is tight. Of course I can see similarities between USPS and Sky, but the first really super team which redefined the sport IMO was La vie Claire, coached by Paul Keochli, who applied science and preparation and the selection of riders to a new level. Look at the dominance of the sport, something Sky or USPS will never reach; 85 Tour, 1, 2 & 10, 86 Tour 1, 2, 4 & 7. Quiet why Tapei decided to dump Hampsten and Lemond is beyond me! By the way I love this quote from a judge yesterday on Lance "This Court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong's desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement or vilification of Defendants, by sifting through eighty mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of factual material relevant to his claims." and in the footnotes Contrary to Armstrong's apparent belief, pleadings filed in the United States District Courts are not press releases, internet blogs, or pieces of investigative journalism. All parties, and their lawyers, are expected to comply with the rules of this Court, and face potential sanctions if they do not. I saw that yesterday - and this is a judge in Austin, Texas. Lance must be starting to panic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Its part of a year long investigation. Murky as always. Will the sport ever be clean? No. Will it ever stop being a circus? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 And began with the clean team Astana this rider was previously on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Could be a good chance of a break away staying away and getting the stage win today. I can't see the main GC candidates doing much given the profile of the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Could be a good chance of a break away staying away and getting the stage win today. I can't see the main GC candidates doing much given the profile of the stage. Not so sure - If Evans, Nibali, or Menchov have any aspirations of winning this race they will work together on the Colombier and try and put pressure on Wiggins on the descent. It seems to be the only potential for a Sky weakness. If Nibali or Evans have any sort of gap on Wiggins and Froome on the climb they will surely extend it on the descent. Having said that I reckon they'll all finish together though - I'll go for Valverde for the stage win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Could be a good chance of a break away staying away and getting the stage win today. I can't see the main GC candidates doing much given the profile of the stage. Not so sure - If Evans, Nibali, or Menchov have any aspirations of winning this race they will work together on the Colombier and try and put pressure on Wiggins on the descent. It seems to be the only potential for a Sky weakness. If Nibali or Evans have any sort of gap on Wiggins and Froome on the climb they will surely extend it on the descent. Having said that I reckon they'll all finish together though - I'll go for Valverde for the stage win. Yes, I think Cuddles and Nibbles will both have a go at Wiggo today. They have to really. Be interesting to see how they all fare following the rest day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Prediction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Might be a good stage for someone like frank Schleck, and he's far enough down for the leaders not to be too concerned about him. He could do them for 3 or 4 minutes and still not be a GC threat. so, Schleck for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://tiny.cc/v349gw Interesting take on things by Paul Kimmage. Was not aware that Wiggins had blocked him from following Sky in the 2010 Tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 http://tiny.cc/v349gw Interesting take on things by Paul Kimmage. Was not aware that Wiggins had blocked him from following Sky in the 2010 Tour. Hmm. Kimmage clearly doesn't like Wiggy. Wiggy clearly doesn't like Kimmage. Negative article from Kimmage on Wiggy - quelle surprise. Good article I read on this today in The Times - far more balanced. This guy clearly has an axe to grind .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 But Wiggo and Kimmage used to be best pals. He does sum up exactly how I felt when Wiggo came out with that tirade the other night. I loved Wiggo, specifically because you could see the contempt he had for dopers like Moreni. He seemed to be the only one of the peloton who seemed genuinely pissed off that doped riders were costing him results, costing him contracts etc. You could sense the bitterness that you would imagine would come so naturally to someone in that position, and it made me absolutely convinced he was clean. But Kimmage is right, his attitude has completely changed in line with his performances. Cycling has used up all of its good will over the last 20 years - after Contador has been banned, Armstrong is facing charges that could result in him being stripped of his 7 titles, Landis, Rasmussan, Kohl, T-Mobile, Riis, Pantani, Ullrich, how far back do you go. If after all that you take the yellow jersey in the Tour, in even more emphatic fashion than any of those guys that have gone before, and you can't understand why anyone would question that then he's utterly utterly deluded - as are Cav, and Brailsford for sticking up for him. I was gutted with his comments, just like I was gutted with his comments with regard to Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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