All-Purpose Religion Thread

[bickster]

... and nobody is making a profit, why shouldn't they use your bits to save a life.

Now!

After a decade or so of this becoming common practice, whose to say that some financial scheme won't be cooked up. Then you're a simple skip away from people who are alive but poor selling their organs like they do in some third world countries

[chrisp65]

But babies and people are 'denied life' on an hourly basis. There are budgets and somebody somewhere decides they will invest in heart surgery in Liverpool at the expense of something else somewhere else. 'They' already decide when you live or die without your express consent, from pensions, through winter fuel allowance, health advice, legislation on fags and a thousand other tiny things.

The big blunt transfusion baby dilemma is a relatively minor part of the whole personal freedom of choice thing. If you were forced to pay more tax, far more babies would survive than by forcing JW's to allow their babies transfusions. The greater good would be to tax everyone more and not worry about such minority fringe items until we've dealt with the big stuff.

Surely us lot having a beer or a night out is 'evil' when babies are dying because of our direct choice not to put more money into health?

I think current social mores make it difficult to see where the 'evil' line is crossed. People choosing to vote for budget cutting governments might be harming far more innocent babies than JW's could ever dream of.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying its right, I'm not supporting it. It's just not as simple as we are right they are wrong. We might also be wrong in our choices, they just aren't as instantly directly emotional.

Freedom of choice currently means local council budgets are being spent cleaning up vandalism and puke and monitoring fast food late night opening and thus not having the funds for sufficient social workers and early years health support. Sometimes, our freedom to choose, needs a reality check for the greater good. Admittedly, organ harvesting is the extreme end of social over personal, but it's not as simple as 'my body my rules'.

True evil might be the big night out and a £65 taxi ride home that I saw in another thread. That surely, is personal choice not understanding social responsibility.

[chrisp65]

... and nobody is making a profit, why shouldn't they use your bits to save a life.

Now!

After a decade or so of this becoming common practice, whose to say that some financial scheme won't be cooked up. Then you're a simple skip away from people who are alive but poor selling their organs like they do in some third world countries

I agree the slippery slope arguement is compelling. That's a very real potential outcome. But we can't not do good things now in case someone later tries to find a profit angle. That's when you object, later.

For now, just drive carefully when you go to Wales.

What about....would you accept the transplant of a person that died in Wales on a presumed yes, even though they might not have actually consented? Surely, you'd have to decline, just in case you offended their wishes for their carcass that they forgot to make clear. Or would the 'my body even after death' rule only apply to you personally?

[leviramsey]

What exactly is wrong with organ donors being compensated?

Lives would most definitely be saved (this is perhaps most especially true with kidneys).

[leviramsey]

How to suck at your religion

[CrackpotForeigner]

How to suck at your religion

That is excellent.

[PussEKatt]

There is one big fact that I dont understand.Christians of all denominations do not believe in reincarnation, yet god died and came back to life.

So, is that a fact ? and if it is then why is it so hard to believe in reincarnation ?

[mjmooney]

He was Special.

[PussEKatt]

So, he is saying.Do as I say,not as I do ?

[mjmooney]

Of course. God the father, innit?

[A.J.Rimmer]

I see in today's news the BBC Trust have censored Paxman for calling Genesis 'religious hogwash' and those who believe it 'stupid people'.

It seems they have been 'offended'.

As religious believers continue to slaughter innocent people every day, exactly as they have always done throughout the pages of the ages, I humbly suggest our problem is that we have not offended them nearly enough, and that the sooner we expose these idiots for what they are, the better it will be for all of us.

Sadly we have reached a point in this modern society where people not merely expect, but actively wish to be lied to, rather than face unpalatable truths. Indeed, it is hard to think of any aspect of modern government where this is not being pracised on some scale or other.

Some day it will all come back to haunt us, and everyone will be busily explaining why it was not their fault.

[mjmooney]

This is what pisses me off so much.

If I went around claiming that the world is made of marzipan, and was created by a giant stuffed rabbit called Kevin, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed. But if you claim that humans came about because an invisible being pulled a rib out of a man and made it into a woman, who got led astray by a talking snake, WE HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR YOUR BELIEFS???

****. Right. Off.

[A.J.Rimmer]

This is what pisses me off so much.

If I went around claiming that the world is made of marzipan, and was created by a giant stuffed rabbit called Kevin, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed. But if you claim that humans came about because an invisible being pulled a rib out of a man and made it into a woman, who got led astray by a talking snake, WE HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR YOUR BELIEFS???

****. Right. Off.

I'd be careful if I were you. If you continue to agree with me you will be roundly vilifies by almost everyone else on this site... and I was just about to post that I agreed with your favourite 3 Bond films... I think we're in danger of giving away our age.

[PussEKatt]

This is what pisses me off so much.

If I went around claiming that the world is made of marzipan, and was created by a giant stuffed rabbit called Kevin, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed. But if you claim that humans came about because an invisible being pulled a rib out of a man and made it into a woman, who got led astray by a talking snake, WE HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR YOUR BELIEFS???

****. Right. Off.

The bible should really begin with.......Once upon a time.

[mjmooney]

This is what pisses me off so much.

If I went around claiming that the world is made of marzipan, and was created by a giant stuffed rabbit called Kevin, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed. But if you claim that humans came about because an invisible being pulled a rib out of a man and made it into a woman, who got led astray by a talking snake, WE HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR YOUR BELIEFS???

****. Right. Off.

The bible should really begin with.......Once upon a time.

And end with either:

"...... and they all lived happily ever after!"

or:

"...... and then he woke up - AND IT WAS ALL A DREAM!"

[mjmooney]

I'd be careful if I were you. If you continue to agree with me you will be roundly vilifies by almost everyone else on this site... and I was just about to post that I agreed with your favourite 3 Bond films... I think we're in danger of giving away our age.

You mean you're in danger of giving away yours - mine is hardly a secret!

[A.J.Rimmer]

This is what pisses me off so much.

If I went around claiming that the world is made of marzipan, and was created by a giant stuffed rabbit called Kevin, I'd be laughed at and ridiculed. But if you claim that humans came about because an invisible being pulled a rib out of a man and made it into a woman, who got led astray by a talking snake, WE HAVE TO SHOW RESPECT FOR YOUR BELIEFS???

****. Right. Off.

The bible should really begin with.......Once upon a time.

And end with either:

"...... and they all lived happily ever after!"

or:

"...... and then he woke up - AND IT WAS ALL A DREAM!"

Or more likely still... 'and then there was a long series of nuclear explosions, but rather than stepping in to save us, God just let it all happen.'

[legov]

Why shouldn't they? Because they assume that because I didn't say no, I said yes. The principle of the thing is shocking. My body is mine. I will decide what happens to it. Not anyone else, even after I am gone.

It's fundamentally different to the child being denied a blood transfusion. If an adult wants to roll the dice and refuse a transfusion, they're fools but their choice, so be it. A child is unlikely to be able to make that decision knowing the consequences.

It's down to the individual being able to make a considered choice. The child is either unable, or incapable of doing that, to deny it a life is evil. If I choose to not donate my property, that is my call. The state deciding that me not saying no is me saying yes, is a different and wholly wrong matter. The individual is master of his fate, and in the event that the individual is unable to make a considered choice, the right thing is to maintain life and give then the chance to be masters of their own fate.

Do you think euthanasia is morally right if the patient is senile/comatose, Chindie?

[snowychap]

Wales is going to go 'opt out' instead of 'opt in', so if you die in a freak orange, wardrobe and chord accident in Wales they'll presume they can do a quick organ harvest.

I wasn't aware of that until your post.

Having had a look, one will have to have lived in Wales for a period of time, too, I believe - so they won't just be sending loads of ambulances over the border to pick up possible harvests.

I'm not ok with the opt out system, fwiw. (Discussion covered previously in this thread).

[chrisp65]

Out of curiosity, would you be ok with an opt out system transplant if you needed it, or would you wait until an opt in transplant organ became available? Anyway, that particular diversion is in danger of going well and truly off topic.

I meant to clicky reference the first 'creationist' school getting it's licence the other day, but then I got distracted and now can't be arsed to find the link. They applied to be a free school and had creationism on the science curriculum, so were turned down. They've re applied with creationism still taught but now separated from the science curriculum and it looks like they've got their licence.