Martin O'Neill

[Mantis]

So this is now the John Gregory thread? :confused:

Shoud it be renamed 'The ex-managers who failed to fulfil their potential thread'?

Or "Managers who did better at Villa than Martin O'Neill thread"

[briny_ear]

So this is now the John Gregory thread? :confused:

Shoud it be renamed 'The ex-managers who failed to fulfil their potential thread'?

Or "Managers who did better at Villa than Martin O'Neill thread"

Good idea but of course you'd need to go back well before John Gregory to find one of those.

If people really want to talk about JG and the like, how about "Managers who disappeared with hardly a trace after managing Villa (unlike MON)"? :winkold:

[Mantis]

So this is now the John Gregory thread? :confused:

Shoud it be renamed 'The ex-managers who failed to fulfil their potential thread'?

Or "Managers who did better at Villa than Martin O'Neill thread"

Good idea but of course you'd need to go back well before John Gregory to find one of those.

If people really want to talk about JG and the like, how about "Managers who disappeared with hardly a trace after managing Villa (unlike MON)"? :winkold:

Personally I think Gregory did a better job.

However, even if you don't agree with that, Little undoubtedly did a better job and he came right before Gregory.

[briny_ear]

So this is now the John Gregory thread? :confused:

Shoud it be renamed 'The ex-managers who failed to fulfil their potential thread'?

Or "Managers who did better at Villa than Martin O'Neill thread"

Good idea but of course you'd need to go back well before John Gregory to find one of those.

If people really want to talk about JG and the like, how about "Managers who disappeared with hardly a trace after managing Villa (unlike MON)"? :winkold:

Personally I think Gregory did a better job.

However, even if you don't agree with that, Little undoubtedly did a better job and he came right before Gregory.

Brian Little is one of my favourite Villa players of all time. Yes, as our manager he did well for a couple of seasons but not so well in his bail-out season of 97-8. He would also qualify under my alternate suggested title for the thread.

[Mantis]

So this is now the John Gregory thread? :confused:

Shoud it be renamed 'The ex-managers who failed to fulfil their potential thread'?

Or "Managers who did better at Villa than Martin O'Neill thread"

Good idea but of course you'd need to go back well before John Gregory to find one of those.

If people really want to talk about JG and the like, how about "Managers who disappeared with hardly a trace after managing Villa (unlike MON)"? :winkold:

Personally I think Gregory did a better job.

However, even if you don't agree with that, Little undoubtedly did a better job and he came right before Gregory.

Brian Little is one of my favourite Villa players of all time. Yes, as our manager he did well for a couple of seasons but not so well in his bail-out season of 97-8. He would also qualify under my alternate suggested title for the thread.

How on Earth did MON do a better job at Villa than little?

[briny_ear]

How on Earth did MON do a better job at Villa than little?

Don't know. Do you really think he did? :confused:

[Mantis]

How on Earth did MON do a better job at Villa than little?

Don't know. Do you really think he did? :confused:

Of course he did. He won us silverware. His highest finish with us was 4th, and he also got us 5th the season afterwards. This is without mentioning the fact that he did it under Ellis.

There's no question that Little did a better job. Same goes for Atkinson.

[MrDuck]

How on Earth did MON do a better job at Villa than little?

Don't know. Do you really think he did? :confused:

Of course he did. He won us silverware. His highest finish with us was 4th, and he also got us 5th the season afterwards. This is without mentioning the fact that he did it under Ellis.

There's no question that Little did a better job. Same goes for Atkinson.

I don't think you can compare, frankly. I loved O'Neill and Little, more so Little due to him being one of our greatest ever players. I think they both did very well for us, although MON's record elsewhere suggests he's the better manager by some distance.

But in Little's day, the playing field was a lot flatter than it is now... the gap between the rich and not so rich wasn't anything like as big, so how do you compare in any meaningful way? You can't. Little won a trophy, but MONs three 6th place finishes with ever-increasing points were no mean achievement.

[Mantis]

How on Earth did MON do a better job at Villa than little?

Don't know. Do you really think he did? :confused:

Of course he did. He won us silverware. His highest finish with us was 4th, and he also got us 5th the season afterwards. This is without mentioning the fact that he did it under Ellis.

There's no question that Little did a better job. Same goes for Atkinson.

I don't think you can compare, frankly. I loved O'Neill and Little, more so Little due to him being one of our greatest ever players. I think they both did very well for us, although MON's record elsewhere suggests he's the better manager by some distance.

But in Little's day, the playing field was a lot flatter than it is now... the gap between the rich and not so rich wasn't anything like as big, so how do you compare in any meaningful way? You can't. Little won a trophy, but MONs three 6th place finishes with ever-increasing points were no mean achievement.

I wasn't talking about the two managers overall, just about the job they did at Villa.

Yes, that's true, but Little did what he did under much harder ownership. Also, it's not like they both achieved similar things. Little easily surpassed MON in terms of achievements. The three 6th place finishes in a row were good but with no silverware to show for it I don't think MON did as great a job as people think he did.

[briny_ear]

Not that it's at all important, but if you read what I actually said, I never claimed MON was better than Little. That was an argument Mantis appeared to be having with himself. :winkold:

Little has always been one of my heroes and I won't hear a word said against him.

However, even his biggest fan would have to admit that, while he was really good for two seasons as out manager, he was desperately poor in the 1997-8 season and he bailed out with Villa in 15th place in late February 1998, 6 points off the relegation zone.

Sound familiar?

I agree with Mr Duck's post. Little managed the club in very different times and faced different challenges. By the time MON came to the club, a "top 4"of clubs had built up a massive wealth and powerbase fuelled with CL TV revenue and massive investment of the like Villa just hadn't seen.

The fact that he got a club that had been drifting around mid table to challenge consistently for the top 4 and for trophies is to his credit, although obviously it's disappointing we didn't ever make the top 4 or win a trophy.

For those who gloat about his departure, however, it's surely galling to see the chaos our club has been in since he left, and our mediocre achievements; also to see Sunderland now getting the benefit of his motivational and tactical skill.

[coda]

I see Niall Quinn has left Sunderland. Thought that might be relevant to this thread.

[Mantis]

Not that it's at all important, but if you read what I actually said, I never claimed MON was better than Little. That was an argument Mantis appeared to be having with himself. :winkold:

Little has always been one of my heroes and I won't hear a word said against him.

However, even his biggest fan would have to admit that, while he was really good for two seasons as out manager, he was desperately poor in the 1997-8 season and he bailed out with Villa in 15th place in late February 1998, 6 points off the relegation zone.

Sound familiar?

I agree with Mr Duck's post. Little managed the club in very different times and faced different challenges. By the time MON came to the club, a "top 4"of clubs had built up a massive wealth and powerbase fuelled with CL TV revenue and massive investment of the like Villa just hadn't seen.

The fact that he got a club that had been drifting around mid table to challenge consistently for the top 4 and for trophies is to his credit, although obviously it's disappointing we didn't ever make the top 4 or win a trophy.

For those who gloat about his departure, however, it's surely galling to see the chaos our club has been in since he left, and our mediocre achievements; also to see Sunderland now getting the benefit of his motivational and tactical skill.

No, that doesn't sound familiar. :?

Why do people always use the state of the club now as something in favour of O'Neill? It's got more to do with the decline in spending and Randy's managerial appointments than anything else.

[Laivasse]

Why do people always use the state of the club now as something in favour of O'Neill? It's got more to do with the decline in spending and Randy's managerial appointments than anything else.

Well, isn't the second point exactly the same as the one you're questioning? If Randy's managerial appointments had been at the same level as MON, we would not have sunk nearly so far.

[Mantis]

Why do people always use the state of the club now as something in favour of O'Neill? It's got more to do with the decline in spending and Randy's managerial appointments than anything else.

Well, isn't the second point exactly the same as the one you're questioning? If Randy's managerial appointments had been at the same level as MON, we would not have sunk nearly so far.

I think McLeish is an exceedingly bad manager. That doesn't make MON great or anything.

As for Houllier, I think we'd be doing quite well now if he was still here but I can understand why some would disagree. I really don't want to open that can of worms.

[PauloBarnesi]

MON wasn’t and isn’t great. Very few managers are. However MON was and is a good manager, perhaps a very good manager. And perhaps in the case of Aston Villa, a ‘good’ fit. He’s certainly been and was better for Villa, than his successors. But more importantly is those above the manager, those who actually appoint the manager.

Who do you trust the footballing side of Aston Villa? Faulkner & Lerner or MON?

[thetrees]

MON wasn’t and isn’t great. Very few managers are. However MON was and is a good manager, perhaps a very good manager. And perhaps in the case of Aston Villa, a ‘good’ fit. He’s certainly been and was better for Villa, than his successors. But more importantly is those above the manager, those who actually appoint the manager.

Who do you trust the footballing side of Aston Villa? Faulkner & Lerner or MON?

Sub MON for Neil Warnock, Steve Bruce, Sam Allardyce, Simon Grayson, Paul Ince etc etc and the answer would be the same.

Faulkner is an administrator, and Lerner, apparently, was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has incredibly not yet managed to lose the undeserved fortune inherited from his father :winkold:

[PauloBarnesi]

Faulkner is an administrator, and Lerner, apparently, was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and has incredibly not yet managed to lose the undeserved fortune inherited from his father :winkold:

Faulkner is an administrator, but at the same time he has also been involved in signing and selling players; certainly Milner and Ireland, and the appointment of Houllier and McLeish. He believes we are a top six side.

Its not his job to be an expert in football, but he does need to have the knowledge to appoint the expert, i.e. the manager. McLeish is an expert in a certain brand of football as we know...

[VillaGoMarching]

Luckiest manager goin.

The media would have you believe that Irish lad Mclean was scooped off the street while having a kick about with a tin can by O'Neill on a charity visit to Ireland. Funny how he was signed by Steve Bruce.

[PauloBarnesi]

Luckiest manager goin.

The media would have you believe that Irish lad Mclean was scooped off the street while having a kick about with a tin can by O'Neill on a charity visit to Ireland. Funny how he was signed by Steve Bruce.

All MON has done is play the guy, I haven’t seen a single article where its claimed he signed him, or anything like that Its hardly unusual a new manager picks a player and gives them a break. Look at MON at Villa with Gabby.

Most managers at new clubs find that they have inherited some kind of gem ; John Robertson was on the transfer list when Clough joined Nottingham Forest and look what became of him.

[Voinjama]

This MON thread will run and run, it will still be on the first page of other football in 2 years time.