Could Noah's Ark hold all the animals?

[Risso]

Despite these initial attacks, Jehovah’s Witnesses stood their ground and publicly denounced the oppression and injustice. The November 1, 1933, issue of The Watchtower featured the article “Fear Them Not.” It was prepared especially for the German Witnesses, exhorting them to take courage in the face of mounting pressure.

On February 9, 1934, J. F. Rutherford, the president of the Watch Tower Society, sent a letter of protest to Hitler stating: “You may successfully resist any and all men, but you cannot successfully resist Jehovah God. . . . In the name of Jehovah God and His anointed King, Christ Jesus, I demand that you give order to all officials and servants of your government that Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany be permitted to peaceably assemble and without hindrance worship God.”

Rutherford set March 24, 1934, as the deadline. He said that if by that time relief did not come to the German Witnesses, the facts about the persecution would be published throughout Germany and the rest of the world. The Nazis answered Rutherford’s demand with stepped-up abuses, sending many of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the concentration camps that had recently been set up. Thus, they were among the first inmates of these camps.

And you have the nerve to say .. I beleive lies.

Shame on you Martin.

One of the streets in Berlin has recently been named after one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was beheaded in the concentration camps. He wasn't good enough for a bullet, so they beheaded him.

See my link above. Rutherford was anti-semite who sucked up to Hitler, and thought the Nazis were going to win. The complete opposite to your lies on here.

[Kiwivillan]

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

[JulieB]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Hmmm. The bloke who started your sect seems to be of the opposite opinion:

See page 15 and 16.

Oh dear wrong again Martin.. Charles Taze Russell founded the modern day Bible Students in 1879.

[Chindie]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Hmmm. The bloke who started your sect seems to be of the opposite opinion:

See page 15 and 16.

I don't believe the Nazi's took over Switzerland either... unless of course you realise that the Hebrew for 'Switzerland' can be translated also as 'were bested in the field of conflict then hunted down and executed like dogs or forced into hiding for the rest of their days'. Which can also of course be translated as 'the collection of illegally garnered Nazi gold into Swiss banks (allegedly)'.

[steaknchips]

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Bullsh1t Kiwi,

If you have read and understand the bible..Even if you didnt believe in it you would still respect it. You would respect it as an historic document, historic writings.. Yet you take the p1ss..

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I wonder what SteaknChips (andco) makes of the lovely folks on Channel4 at the moment.

[Risso]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Hmmm. The bloke who started your sect seems to be of the opposite opinion:

See page 15 and 16.

Oh dear wrong again Martin.. Charles Taze Russell founded the modern day Bible Students in 1879.

There really are no depths you won't plumb are there? He was your leader, and under that leadership, the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" was used for the first time. As that leader, he wrote the above book which states that the Allies would lose the war. Which shows you up as a liar, or at least a repeater of lies.

[Kiwivillan]

In fairness to JulieB

Risso mentioned Jehovahs Witness's not fighting against Nazis.

I think its only right whatever you think of JW's that its pointed out they were persecuted and killed in Nazi Germany like many groups . They were vocal critics of Nazi party very early on.

Unlike the catholic church...

But yes this offtopic somehwat

Actually, a quick Google shows that this standing up to Hitler is more lies and misinformation put about by this detestable cult.

Martin I didn't take you to be a liar. There is a huge amount of evidence about this subject from sources nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Channel 4 made a film all about it called Purple Triangles.

Jehovah's Witnesses supported Hitler until Hitler and the majority of Christian denominations decided that the Jehovah's Witnesses were undermining Christianity by claiming Jesus as prophet and not actually God. Read their own words below.

In 1996 the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society released a video entitled “Stand Firm”. This video along with countless articles published by the Watchtower Society have constantly boasted about the strict neutrality of Jehovah’s Witnesses during World War II and Nazi Germany. Most is true, and it certainly is commendable, and noble of the many fine witnesses that stood firm for their supposed integrity to Jehovah. But sadly, their loyalty, as sincere as it was, was to an organization, a self appointed “slave class of men".

At first the Nazi party did not threaten the Watchtower organization with opposition, and allowed them the freedom to preach their version of the “good news.” But as soon as the Nazi’s started opposing and putting pressure on them, the Watchtower Society took a 180% turn against the Nazi regime.

Instead of publicly admitting their own support for the Nazi party before opposition, the Watchtower Society suppresses and hides statements, such as the ones quoted below against the Jewish people in this 1934 yearbook. This is nothing short of dishonesty to

protect a man made organization. An honest and open reading of the below quotes truly shows the Watchtower Society’s compromise with Adolph Hitler in the 1934 yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Thousands of Watchtower articles continue to quickly point out how the churches of Christendom compromised their integrity to Hitler and Nazi Germany, however they do not bring out, or admit to their very own compromise as shown here below. Apparently, by admission, this would make their organization in the same level as “Christendom”, which they interpret to be “Babylon the Great” of Revelation chapters 17 & 18. Finally, after many years in a 1998 Watchtower they have made admission to these statements, however this admission of guilt is completely negated as they hypocritically continue to discredit and condemn Christendom for the same actions she took.

Page 134: “The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.”

Page 135: “The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position:”

Page 136: “Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart.”

Page 137: “A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness . . . .

Page 138: “Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens. That the League of Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany.”

The Real Danger of the

Watchtower’s Admission to Compromise

Unlike most of the Protestant denominations and the Catholic church openly apologizing for their compromises and wrong actions they took, the Watchtower Society stand much more to loose by their

Finally, after many years of denial, in 1998 the Watchtower Society has made admission to these statements written in the 1934 yearbook. This admission of guilt is completely negated as they hypocritically continue to discredit and condemn Christendom for the same actions she took. In addition, this compromise of integrity, undermines their theology: the claim of God’s complete rejection of the entire realm of Christendom and the sole appointment of the Watchtower Society as God’s only channel of communication on earth, as the so called “faithful and discreet slave class.”

admission. Their very theology depends on it. They are caught in a theological interpretation backfire. Unlike most Christians who solely base their faith in God and Christ alone, Jehovah’s Witnesses, represented by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, boldly base their faith in this organization as God’s sole channel of communication on earth to all of mankind. They brazenly claim to be the “faithful and discreet slave class,” who were appointed as such in the year 1918, 3 and 1/2 years after their unique interpretation of parousia, Christ’s second coming, interpreting this to be an invisible presence of Christ where he rules invisibly, judging the nations and all religious organizations. For the Watchtower Society, to live up to their self appointment as God’s “slave class,” even though they admit and allow mistakes of imperfect men who make human errors, must still be clean, maintain integrity and act in proportion according to the mercy and justice of God. By their admission of out right written statements supporting probably one of the worst know men of evil, Adolph Hitler, one our centuries most notorious ethnic cleansing leader, does not go well with their divine appointment as God’s sole and only channel of communication to mankind on the planet earth, along with their claim of a complete rejection of the entire realm of Christendom as outcasts and subject to death by God.

Frequently the Watchtower will quote prophecies of Jeremiah and other prophets directed at the apostate nation of Israel who turned her back on YHWH and were in line for harsh disciplinary judgment, and apply their words to all of Christendom, lock, stock and barrel, with blanket condemnations. They on the other hand, as God’s sole appointed “faithful and discreet slave class,” maintained their integrity at all times, unlike all other Christian denominations on the face of the earth. Their admission and apology to their compromise of integrity and failure to obey God and show true agape love, compassion and conviction towards their fellow man, particularly the Jews, breaks down their very foundation theology and claim of being God’s only true people, his witnesses, on earth. Yet this is the truth and this is what happened,

To confirm that the above information is accurate, please see for yourself this 1934 yearbook in your local Kingdom Hall library.

[ml1dch]

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Bullsh1t Kiwi,

If you have read and understand the bible..Even if you didnt believe in it you would still respect it. You would respect it as an historic document, historic writings.. Yet you take the p1ss..

I don't think he's taking the piss out of what is a very interesting set of stories.

He's taking the piss out of the crazy people who base their lives around it.

[kidlewis]

SPASTICATED DICK CHEESE...

[Risso]

Kiwi, there are pages and pages of that stuff, all with the original manuscripts being available to read as well. It paints a completely different story to that told by Julie. The JW top brass were clearly anti-semitic Nazi sympathising scum.

[Kiwivillan]

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Bullsh1t Kiwi,

If you have read and understand the bible..Even if you didnt believe in it you would still respect it. You would respect it as an historic document, historic writings.. Yet you take the p1ss..

Because I have read it and researched I know it for what it is. It most certainly is not a historic document. If you wanted to put a percentage on the historical accuracy of the entirety I would say 15% max.

If you believe different you have been successfully brainwashed.

There are some hilarious flaws in bible accounts that come about from multiple translations that people because they are so blindly indoctrinated can not take them for what they are.

Jesus' trial being one of my favourites.

[JulieB]

That is twisted lies...

The 1934 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses reported how the police of Germany occupied the Society’s property in Magdeburg. In June of 1933 the Society’s large printing plant in Germany was closed by order of the government. The government had forbidden any meetings by Jehovah’s witnesses throughout Germany. They confiscated all the literature that they could lay their hands on and tried to stop the distribution of the Kingdom message in any form. Would this drastic move again trigger people to deliver the Christian witnesses of Jehovah up to tribulation and would they kill them and make them objects of hatred by all the nations? (Matt. 24:9) Read for yourself how world opposition rose against Jehovah’s witnesses again.

31 Publishers preaching the good news of the Kingdom were brought into the courts world wide and were charged with selling without a license, disturbing the peace, peddling without a permit, violating the Sunday sabbath law, and so forth. They were classed as solicitors rather than ministers of the gospel. But Jehovah’s witnesses did not slacken in their zeal and determination to advertise the King and the Kingdom. In fact, the persecution against Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany became so intense as the build-up for World War II gathered momentum that the Christian witnesses of Jehovah in fifty countries sent cables of protest addressed to Hitler and his government concerning the persecution of their fellow workers in Germany. It caused a terrifying impact on the Hitler government. We would like to quote from the book Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, page 142, regarding a sworn account of what actually did take place in Hitler’s presence October 7, 1934, as a result of this flood of protests. Karl R. A. Wittig said:

32 “On October 7, 1934, having been previously summoned, I visited Dr. Wilhelm Frick, at that time Minister of the Interior of the Reich and Prussia, in his home office of the Reich, located in Berlin, 6 am Köenigsplatz, since I was a plenipotentiary of General Ludendorff. I was to accept communications, contents of which were an attempt to persuade General Ludendorff to discontinuance of his objection to the Nazi regime. During my discussion with Dr. Frick, Hitler suddenly appeared and began taking part in the conversation. When our discussion obligatorily dealt with the action against the International Bible Students Association [Jehovah’s witnesses] in Germany up until now, Dr. Frick showed Hitler a number of telegrams protesting against the Third Reich’s persecution of the Bible Students, saying: ‘If the Bible Students do not immediately get in line we will act against them using the strongest means.’ After which Hitler jumped to his feet and with clenched fists hysterically screamed: ‘This brood will be exterminated in Germany!’ Four years after this discussion I was able, by my own observations, to convince myself, during my seven years in protective custody in the hell of the Nazi’s concentration-camps at Sachsenhausen, Flossenburg and Mauthausen—I was in prison until released by the Allies—that Hitler’s outburst of anger was not just an idle threat. No other group of prisoners of the named concentration-camps was exposed to the sadism of the SS-soldiery in such a fashion as the Bible Students were. It was a sadism marked by an unending chain of physical and mental tortures, the likes of which no language in the world can express.”—Quoted from sworn statement made by Karl R. A. Wittig, November 13, 1947.

33 Why was Hitler so enraged against Jehovah’s witnesses? It was because they were uncompromisingly preaching the good news of God’s kingdom and would not heil Hitler nor look to Germany as the savior of mankind. Jehovah’s witnesses knew from God’s Word that Hitler, the Catholic, would not reestablish the Holy Roman Empire to reign for a thousand years, which was his aim. Jehovah’s witnesses were confident that soon the conclusion of this system of things would come and Jehovah’s kingdom through his Son, Christ Jesus, would reign for a thousand years. This they kept preaching to peoples of all nations for a witness.

34 Even in the United States during the year 1934, 340 of Jehovah’s faithful Kingdom proclaimers had been arrested because they dared to preach from house to house. Many were imprisoned for the violation of some law that took away the freedom of speech, press and religion.

[Chindie]

Kinda pitiful that theres vulnerable people out there who don't know better being brainwashed like this.

No excuses for those that should know better.

[mjmooney]

What is really sad is filling little kids' heads with this nonsense. Makes me angry.

[JulieB]

Kiwi, there are pages and pages of that stuff, all with the original manuscripts being available to read as well. It paints a completely different story to that told by Julie. The JW top brass were clearly anti-semitic Nazi sympathising scum.

That's absolute rubbish. websites dedicated to stating twisted lies. How do you know that any of it is genuine?

[ml1dch]

How do you know that any of it is genuine?

Julie, I'm not really sure that's a thread that you or steakandchips really want to be pulling at.

[Risso]

That is twisted lies...

The actual books and letters written by Rutherford are there to see, they are matters of historical record, in black and white. Are you denying that Rutherford wrote that book I linked to? Are you denying that in it he states that he expects Germany to win the war, and shortly after Armageddon to commence? Which bit of that is lies? Which bit of his article "Declaration of Facts" is lies?

I even linked the page for you to check. How can you deny what is there in black and white?

[Kiwivillan]

How do you know that any of it is genuine?

Julie, I'm not really sure that's a thread that you or steakandchips really want to be pulling at.

Priceless, really priceless.

That's absolute rubbish. websites dedicated to stating twisted lies.

Like 99% of the links you and snc have put up.

[steaknchips]

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..

I have over many years. It's a work of fiction. The end.

Bullsh1t Kiwi,

If you have read and understand the bible..Even if you didnt believe in it you would still respect it. You would respect it as an historic document, historic writings.. Yet you take the p1ss..

Because I have read it and researched I know it for what it is. It most certainly is not a historic document. If you wanted to put a percentage on the historical accuracy of the entirety I would say 15% max.

If you believe different you have been successfully brainwashed.

There are some hilarious flaws in bible accounts that come about from multiple translations that people because they are so blindly indoctrinated can not take them for what they are.

Jesus' trial being one of my favourites.

Kiwi,

You need to get your head out of your backside..Many a great man, far, far, far ,far more intelligent than you will respect and even believe in the scriptures. This isnt some book your talking about in a kiddies club..This is global, researched, probed, etc over centuries every possible spanner and screwdriver has gone into this book to try and disprove its worth. Yet you Mr.Kiwi think it deserves no respect etc.