Stevo985 Posted February 16, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I agree with sexbelowsound. 50 miles a week will mean you can't really build any significant muscle anyway, so I wouldn't worry about putting "too much" on. You'll certainly have to eat a lot if you do want to put any muscle on. Edited February 16, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 A the perenial VT Gym Routine debate, cardio vs muscle growth. Quick question - is it just the calorie burning aspect of cardio that is detrimental to muscle growth or is there anything else about cardio which is inihibits building muscle. I'm not talking about 50 miles here but 30 min stints of cardio. It seems that most athletes do a tonne of cardio as well as loads of gym work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 30 minute stints are fine. I'm talking about long distance running. 50 miles a week is a lot of running. Calories is one issue. That much running will burn a LOT of calories which is hard to correct through food. If you're not eating a calorie surplus then you won't put on muscle. You also have to consider your rest/recovery. Muscle doesn't grow in the gym. It grows when you're resting. Lifting weights breaks the muscle down and it's their recovery that causes them to grow. Doing too much cardio will get in the way of this rest. Your body is effectively "overtraining" (although that's not a term I like to use) so it's never resting properly and the muscle can't grow. A normal amount of cardio is fine. In fact it's beneficial because it helps to burn off some of the excess fat that comes with bulking. Even better if you do High Intensity Interval Training. Research will show you that most places recommend to do no more than 2 or 3 short cardio sessions a week if you're building muscle. But long stints of cardio performed frequently will hinder you. You'll find it difficult to gain any sort of real muscle if you're doing long distance running at the same time. Have you ever seen a long distance runner built like a bodybuilder? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 A the perenial VT Gym Routine debate, cardio vs muscle growth. Quick question - is it just the calorie burning aspect of cardio that is detrimental to muscle growth or is there anything else about cardio which is inihibits building muscle. I'm not talking about 50 miles here but 30 min stints of cardio. It seems that most athletes do a tonne of cardio as well as loads of gym work. Increasing muscle-mass while keeping body fat low has been one of the biggest conundrums in body-building and has become a bit of holy grail. What makes it difficult for the punters is the fact that most pictures of top body-builders are taken when they are in pre-contest condition, which they only maintain for a few days, and then as Ronnie Coleman put it, they 'go eat'. For those who want to make it a lifestyle, then I would recommend Clarence Bass's Ripped series of books for inspiration and detailed insight into his life-style. But what is notable is that when performance is more important than aesthetics, athletes tend to be relatively smooth (CrossFit for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Insightful as ever Stevo. Obviously everyone has different goals, for me I use the gym to help with the sports I do so having good stamina is important to me which is why I tend to do 30-60 mins stints of cardio rather than HIT stuff. (i.e. playing football, or running, swimming, cycling etc) I also do between 30-45 mins of weights 5 days a week. I think at the moment I'm getting a pretty good balance of cardio fitness and good muscle tone (though not a body builder by any means). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 Yeah of course it's all down to personal preference. If you want all round fitness then you obviously have to have more cardio in there. For example, personally, I think I'm in my peak of fitness in terms of how I look. I've never looked better in my eyes (well at least in 3 months that will be true when I get rid of the xmas fat! ) But in terms of physical fitness, I'm awful. I probably wouldn't manage to run 5 miles these days because all my cardio is HIIT or maybe the odd game of 5 aside. So it all comes down to what you want. You may have to sacrifice one for the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 HIIT has been proven on countless occasions to be far superior to traditional steady state state stuff when it comes to developing aerobic capacity. It's the fastest way to raise VO2 max. So anyone looking to increase their athletic performance should ditch the long, boring stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Yeah I've seen and read all that JB but surely to build stamina (i.e. to still be going strong in the 90th minute, or final KM of a run/triathlon) you need to be doing longer duration cardio? Edited February 18, 2015 by villaglint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Stamina = aerobic fitness, right? In which case, interval training is still the way to go if you want to increase your V02 max (standard measure of aerobic fitness). I'd also suggest that interval training more closely replicates most sports, rugby/football etc. Players don't run at one steady pace throughout the game, rather short, intense bursts with active rest. When playing rugby, we never did long distance runs. Obviously triathlons and stuff would probably require some long distance stuff to get you used to it but I know next to nothing about training for those type of things so can't really comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 How's everyone getting on? I'm 8 pounds down on my 2015 cut, with lifts still creeping up on a few things (squat, DL). Bench is pretty static though, although I often don't have a spotter so it's hard to push myself. Still way down on my PBs but I'm about 20 pounds lighter than when I set those! Aim to get back there over next winter. I'll hopefully have cut enough to make that a proper bulk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 HIIT has been proven on countless occasions to be far superior to traditional steady state state stuff when it comes to developing aerobic capacity. It's the fastest way to raise VO2 max. So anyone looking to increase their athletic performance should ditch the long, boring stuff. Tbh different things work for different people, i just do steady state incline walking for 15mins a few times a week and it keeps the fat off, HIIT didnt really work for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I've been bulking for awhile now and thinking about starting a cut soon. I'm currently hovering around 195-200lbs and it seems to fluctuate a lot, probably due to my awful scales. I'm enjoying bulking but want to make sure I don't go crazy, i'd guess i'm at around 14-15% body fat so definitely don't want to go any higher. Started work on my new split a few weeks back and just working through and tweaking it. Might seem like a high volume but at the moment I'm not having any issues with fatigue or recovery times. I also make sure that i alternate exercises so I have both an A & B routine for each target group. Hit 30kg on the Incline Dumbbell Press yesterday for 8 reps of 4. Was well chuffed. Below is an example of a Chest/Delts/Triceps day: Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Decline Dumbbell Press x4 Incline Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Upright Row x3 Reverse Flyes x3 Shoulder Press x3 Close Grip Incline Press x3 Tricep Extension x3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I've been bulking for awhile now and thinking about starting a cut soon. I'm currently hovering around 195-200lbs and it seems to fluctuate a lot, probably due to my awful scales. I'm enjoying bulking but want to make sure I don't go crazy, i'd guess i'm at around 14-15% body fat so definitely don't want to go any higher. Started work on my new split a few weeks back and just working through and tweaking it. Might seem like a high volume but at the moment I'm not having any issues with fatigue or recovery times. I also make sure that i alternate exercises so I have both an A & B routine for each target group. Hit 30kg on the Incline Dumbbell Press yesterday for 8 reps of 4. Was well chuffed. Below is an example of a Chest/Delts/Triceps day: Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Decline Dumbbell Press x4 Incline Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Upright Row x3 Reverse Flyes x3 Shoulder Press x3 Close Grip Incline Press x3 Tricep Extension x3 Chest is ok, need to add in side raises for delts imo, id sack upright rows off. Add another exercise in for triceps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah my goals is to get down to the 10-12% range before I bulk again next winter. I've bulked previously but I've never had low bodyfat so I bulk from about 15% all the way up to around 20% I'm a pretty dirty bulker too which means I add a fair bit of fat when I do it! So plan this time is to get rid of the christmas weight, which is almost gone, then cut down to about 200lbs (I was 210 last summer). By my rough calculations that will put me at about 11% My aim is June for that (when I go on holiday). Then I'll probably get rid of whatever I put on on holiday and go for a bulk, aiming to be much more controlled this time around so I don't end up a fat bastard by christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I've been bulking for awhile now and thinking about starting a cut soon. I'm currently hovering around 195-200lbs and it seems to fluctuate a lot, probably due to my awful scales. I'm enjoying bulking but want to make sure I don't go crazy, i'd guess i'm at around 14-15% body fat so definitely don't want to go any higher. Started work on my new split a few weeks back and just working through and tweaking it. Might seem like a high volume but at the moment I'm not having any issues with fatigue or recovery times. I also make sure that i alternate exercises so I have both an A & B routine for each target group. Hit 30kg on the Incline Dumbbell Press yesterday for 8 reps of 4. Was well chuffed. Below is an example of a Chest/Delts/Triceps day: Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Decline Dumbbell Press x4 Incline Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Upright Row x3 Reverse Flyes x3 Shoulder Press x3 Close Grip Incline Press x3 Tricep Extension x3 Chest is ok, need to add in side raises for delts imo, id sack upright rows off. Add another exercise in for triceps I have side raises on the alternate day. I'm with you on Upright Rows, I've tweaked my lower back twice and both times its been from them however switching to dumbbells instead of barbell has worked. Triceps get hit a lot during the chest section but I might add in some kickbacks. Edited February 23, 2015 by sexbelowsound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah my goals is to get down to the 10-12% range before I bulk again next winter. I've bulked previously but I've never had low bodyfat so I bulk from about 15% all the way up to around 20% I'm a pretty dirty bulker too which means I add a fair bit of fat when I do it! So plan this time is to get rid of the christmas weight, which is almost gone, then cut down to about 200lbs (I was 210 last summer). By my rough calculations that will put me at about 11% My aim is June for that (when I go on holiday). Then I'll probably get rid of whatever I put on on holiday and go for a bulk, aiming to be much more controlled this time around so I don't end up a fat bastard by christmas! Yeah, I've tried to do a very modest bulk by aiming for around 3000 calories a day. I'm enjoying my lifting though so I'll keep doing it until I feel uncomfortable because cutting is so tiresome, especially if you get to the end and the progress isn't as you'd have liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 I never liked upright rows either. They always hurt my hands and forearms. Might have been doing something wrong but it was like I was pinching a nerve or something. FWIW I've gone back to a traditional 4 day split and enjoying it. Think I'd just got bored of it previously and so dabbled in new routines. Now that I'm back on that it's better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Just out of interest. Does anybody else that app 'Strong'? I find it really useful for tracking workouts/prs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I never liked upright rows either. They always hurt my hands and forearms. Might have been doing something wrong but it was like I was pinching a nerve or something. FWIW I've gone back to a traditional 4 day split and enjoying it. Think I'd just got bored of it previously and so dabbled in new routines. Now that I'm back on that it's better Yeah I think YGabbana is right, I've no idea why I persist with it when as I said its been the course of a tweaked lower back twice. Dumbbells ease the strain but might as well do front raises instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah my goals is to get down to the 10-12% range before I bulk again next winter. I've bulked previously but I've never had low bodyfat so I bulk from about 15% all the way up to around 20% I'm a pretty dirty bulker too which means I add a fair bit of fat when I do it! So plan this time is to get rid of the christmas weight, which is almost gone, then cut down to about 200lbs (I was 210 last summer). By my rough calculations that will put me at about 11% My aim is June for that (when I go on holiday). Then I'll probably get rid of whatever I put on on holiday and go for a bulk, aiming to be much more controlled this time around so I don't end up a fat bastard by christmas! Yeah, I've tried to do a very modest bulk by aiming for around 3000 calories a day. I'm enjoying my lifting though so I'll keep doing it until I feel uncomfortable because cutting is so tiresome, especially if you get to the end and the progress isn't as you'd have liked. 3000 is good. That was always my aim. My problem was I didn't stick to it. Because I was bulking I'd be really casual with food. So I'd already be eating 3000 calories, but then someone would bring cakes into the office and I'd eat a couple of slices. Or I'd go to my mom's for dinner and have a massive dinner instead of my chicken and veg. So then suddenly I'm eating 3,500 or 4000 calories a couple of days a week. Not good. Last bulk I put on as much fat as I did muscle. Need to avoid that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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