NRC. Are you a fan or not?

[claret75]

I've just watched the 2nd half vs Everton again. Nigel made one successful tackle in that half. 72 mins, won the ball and burst forward only to fluff a cross. The rest of the half was spent jogging and jockeying. Think Mark Kinsella.

I want NRC to be good for us but it wasn't happening on Sunday.

So why do a number of the polls on Villa sites have Nigel rated as up there for MOTM on Sunday. The poll on this site has him slightly higher than Stan (admittedly only 4% compared to 3%).

**** if I know

I watched the 2nd half back because I wanted to analyse NRC's performance given the differing opinions I've heard. I've always been of the opinion that NRC is a bustling, busy tackler. Maybe it was an isolated match, but he looked lost for vast periods of the 2nd half.

He was never really busting a gut to make a challenge -always seemed eager to get close without really making a tackle. Maybe he was told by KMacD to close down but not tackle, I don't know.

However, one successful tackle in 45 mins is not really good enough for a so-called defensive midfielder, wouldn't you agree?

To me, he looks lost for long periods of games.

Spends most of his time wasting energy instead anticipating play and getting into good positions.

[claret75]

We gave away far too many free kicks around the edge of the box last Sunday. Perhaps that was why he was reluctant to tackle? Or maybe the fact the ref would blow the whistle if we were to breathe on any of their players.

Didnt stop Petrov, Dunne, Collins and even Albrighton

It's obviously different scenario. If an Everton player has the ball 40 yards from goal, looking to his right for a simple pass. Reo-Coker closes down, he's going to pass. What's the point in making a pointless challenge?

Petrov usually sits a little deeper than Collins, Petrov also gave away a fair few free-kicks. While Collins and Dunne naturally are going to make more tackles as you need too in the box. You need to make a tackle 20 yards from goal if a player has a chance to shoot on goal for example, but you don't need to make tackles 40 yards from your goal. A lot of Albrighton again tackling to stop a cross come into the box, conceded a foul which nearly led to Rodwell heading in from 8 yards from Arteta's free kick.

Everton had so much of the ball, as a team we didn't really press, are you saying Reo-Coker should of stormed out and flew into a tackle which would of been needed because if he closes down at a normal rate, then Everton could of easily just passed to the several options they had open regularly.

No ones saying he should charge around like a maniac making rash challenges, but surely he should be reading the game well enough to be making more than ONE tackle.

[avfc89]

I will never like Reo-Coker. Thankfully, I won't have to put up with his presence in the team I support much longer. And for that I'm thankful.

That's just a completely disgusting attitude to have with any player at the club, a real detestable statement.

[VillaAndLoyal]

Because in the same way a lot of people like and will fall for rhetoric...

Not many people seem to be falling for your rhetoric

...a lot of people like to see a player that grafts, that tries, that is full of running. Sadly, in Nigels case, for anyone unimpressed by that alone, he has nothing else to fall back on.

Or maybe put another way, rather than some people focusing on what he doesn't bring to the team, others, the majority it would seem, focus on what he does bring to the team. Recognising that he plays an important role for the team.

Unfortunately, the people that enjoy graft above all, and effort, seem to outnumber those who are less than impressed by that alone.

Ultimately, in my view at least, the numbers are flawed by this fact.

Sorry but it's not a fact. It may be a fact that more people on here are a fan of Reo Coker than not, as evidenced by the poll, but it is not a fact that all the people voted for him purely on the grounds you mention. That we are all football plebs who just appreciate the baser aspects of the game of effort and graft, but of course couldn't appreciate the finer aesthetics of the game like your high self.

Please, you may not like Reo Coker for whatever reasons you might have, but don't try and debase the opinions of those that do because they disagree with you, it's just a shallowly disguised ad hominem attack.

Well said.

There are no facts in your post Chindie, just opinions. The one fact is at the top of the page, and I for one didn't vote for him because he's a "tryer" Your opinions though are pretty patronising - fact.

[Chindie]

Not many people seem to be falling for your rhetoric

I have no wish to convert people, so theres little for any rhetoric to do.

Or maybe put another way, rather than some people focusing on what he doesn't bring to the team, others, the majority it would seem, focus on what he does bring to the team. Recognising that he plays an important role for the team.

Does he play an important role for the team? We did the best we have in quite some time last season with him barely near the squad. With the best defensive record we've had in donkeys. Is his role so utterly important it's best done from outside the team? Seems that way.

I'd love to look on the positives of NRC. Unfortunately the positives are a very short list. He's defined by his negatives. A lack of skill, vision, or ability. He's all the energy in the world but that just isn't good enough. Having the energy to burst forward is useless if that burst does nothing, like we saw at the weekend. He's a player that is all physique, and these players tend not to be fantastic. Theres a parallel with Micah Richards at Citeh - all brawn, no finesse. Bodily, all the potential in the world to be magnificent in their position, let down by no skill and left relying on whatever their physique lets them do.

I said earlier in the thread I'd adore NRC if he could hack the DM position properly. Or if he could be a cut price Essien.

He can't.

Sorry but it's not a fact. It may be a fact that more people on here are a fan of Reo Coker than not, as evidenced by the poll, but it is not a fact that all the people voted for him purely on the grounds you mention. That we are all football plebs who just appreciate the baser aspects of the game of effort and graft, but of course couldn't appreciate the finer aesthetics of the game like your high self.

The things that NRC is praised for always return to the same old comments - his energy, his bite, etc. It's never his skill. I've never heard him praised on his ability to do anything, except maybe tackle, and frankly I think the jury's out on that as well. For energy, and bite, read 'graft, effort'. I think it is a fact that people praise him on those values and not the ones that he clearly doesn't have. If people are basing it on ability, they're keeping it quiet and, from what I've seen with my eyes, seemingly something that isn't present. It sure as hell isn't his technique (awful), his touch (atrocious), his vision (nonexistant), his reading of the game (he doesn't read it, he reacts) and so on.

I'm not speaking down to anyone there, so you can leave the higher self stuff out of it. Some people appreciate that side of the game, good for them and thats their perogative. However, I want a bit more than that, and since this does appear to be a debate about NRC, I think it's fine to argue the toss of these approaches to him as a player. I think it'd be rather dull if the entirety of the debate was

'Well, I like NRC's efforts'

'Thats nice. I'd to see more from him ability wise'

'OK, we don't agree... I like NRC's efforts'

and so on.

Please, you may not like Reo Coker for whatever reasons you might have, but don't try and debase the opinions of those that do because they disagree with you, it's just a shallowly disguised ad hominem attack.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I have an enormous distaste for NRC, yes, and I'm at a loss as to why people are so impressed by his endeavours.

If I wished to use an ad hominem against anyone of his supporters, I'd be much more blunt.

If you feel I am regardless, then take it up with the mods, as I believe it would constitute a post on poster in effect, an almost genocide-ic post on poster I think, which would, give the sheer support for NRC as evidenced on this poll, probably be worth a ban.

[HolteExile]

I've just watched the 2nd half vs Everton again. Nigel made one successful tackle in that half. 72 mins, won the ball and burst forward only to fluff a cross. The rest of the half was spent jogging and jockeying. Think Mark Kinsella.

I want NRC to be good for us but it wasn't happening on Sunday.

So why do a number of the polls on Villa sites have Nigel rated as up there for MOTM on Sunday. The poll on this site has him slightly higher than Stan (admittedly only 4% compared to 3%).

**** if I know

I watched the 2nd half back because I wanted to analyse NRC's performance given the differing opinions I've heard. I've always been of the opinion that NRC is a bustling, busy tackler. Maybe it was an isolated match, but he looked lost for vast periods of the 2nd half.

He was never really busting a gut to make a challenge -always seemed eager to get close without really making a tackle. Maybe he was told by KMacD to close down but not tackle, I don't know.

However, one successful tackle in 45 mins is not really good enough for a so-called defensive midfielder, wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't agree.

It's a very simplistic approach to football that you can only judge on the blindingly obvious, like a bone crunching tackle or a spectacular last ditch one.

Paul McGrath in his book said he knew when his time was close to an end because he was increasingly having to make more last ditch tackles.

The crowd would cheer of course, but he knew he was firefighting, that being caught out in the first place led to the tackle.

I'm not putting NRC on God's level, far from it. But what we can take from the above is there is often more merit in staying on your feet, being disciplined and -In NRC's case- using your strength and athleticism to prevent the opposition getting an upper hand.

Basketball is a non-contact sport, yet physical players who can control the game are still valued.

[HolteExile]

Does he play an important role for the team? We did the best we have in quite some time last season with him barely near the squad. With the best defensive record we've had in donkeys. Is his role so utterly important it's best done from outside the team? Seems that way.

Aye.

Which will be why a regular gripe about our performances last year was we would tire significantly after the 60-70 mark. Hell, even Terry called it. And said Chelsea planned their approach to the game at Stamford Bridge with that in mind. For good effect, they rammed the point home in the semi final too.

Would we have folded so dramatically with NRC in the side? Unlikely. He brings a physical presence to our midfield that no other player can give us.

NRC was a big part of our good form in the 2007/08 breakthrough campaign. And played a key role in our good start to the 08/09 one - before being dicked about at RB or not even featuring.

In one of the rare games he played in midfield at Anfield last year we produced one of our best performances.

Coincidence?

[claret75]

Does he play an important role for the team? We did the best we have in quite some time last season with him barely near the squad. With the best defensive record we've had in donkeys. Is his role so utterly important it's best done from outside the team? Seems that way.

Aye.

Which will be why a regular gripe about our performances last year was we would tire significantly after the 60-70 mark. Hell, even Terry called it. And said Chelsea planned their approach to the game at Stamford Bridge with that in mind. For good effect, they rammed the point home in the semi final too.

Would we have folded so dramatically with NRC in the side? Unlikely. He brings a physical presence to our midfield that no other player can give us.

NRC was a big part of our good form in the 2007/08 breakthrough campaign. And played a key role in our good start to the 08/09 one - before being dicked about at RB or not even featuring.

In one of the rare games he played in midfield at Anfield last year we produced one of our best performances.

Coincidence?

Just because Petrov tires so badly in games, doesn't mean NRC is a good player. Any half decent midfielder SHOULD last 90 minutes.

The Liverpool peformance was overrated, we were lucky to win that one against a pretty average team.

[HolteExile]

And how about the 07/08 season, and the first part of the 08/09 season.

Or pretty much any time he has featured in midfield for us.

Should we overlook that too?

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Does he play an important role for the team? We did the best we have in quite some time last season with him barely near the squad. With the best defensive record we've had in donkeys. Is his role so utterly important it's best done from outside the team? Seems that way.

Aye.

Which will be why a regular gripe about our performances last year was we would tire significantly after the 60-70 mark. Hell, even Terry called it. And said Chelsea planned their approach to the game at Stamford Bridge with that in mind. For good effect, they rammed the point home in the semi final too.

Would we have folded so dramatically with NRC in the side? Unlikely. He brings a physical presence to our midfield that no other player can give us.

NRC was a big part of our good form in the 2007/08 breakthrough campaign. And played a key role in our good start to the 08/09 one - before being dicked about at RB or not even featuring.

In one of the rare games he played in midfield at Anfield last year we produced one of our best performances.

Coincidence?

Just to add on a point, you say about our results without him, Well results with him were positive too.

From the games he started until he went off...

Blues, Liverpool (H) we were drawing when he was taken off.

Portsmouth, Fulham, Liverpool (A), Tottenham, Bolton were all games we were winning while he was on the pitch.

Too me, that doesn't seem bad going.

So is all his best done off the pitch?

Looks like it isn't to me.

[will-avfc]

Reo-coker did a good job for us when he first signed but last season and the start of this he just doesn't look good enough. He just isn't good enough on the ball. Puts other plays under pressure with poor passes. I can't understand why so many people think he does a good job.

[claret75]

And how about the 07/08 season, and the first part of the 08/09 season.

Or pretty much any time he has featured in midfield for us.

Should we overlook that too?

I remember the odd game here and there when he played well, but that's about it.

[kayarcee]

Reo-coker did a good job for us when he first signed but last season and the start of this he just doesn't look good enough. He just isn't good enough on the ball. Puts other plays under pressure with poor passes. I can't understand why so many people think he does a good job.

Well, he DID have overrated tosser Stevie Gerrard in his back pocket for the entirety of the 3-1 win at Anfield. So he wasn't crap ALL of last season. I do think he needs a run of games to re-find his feet, which is something he didn't get under MON. In the meantime, he can still break up play very nicely on the defensive end, which is quite valuable in the current Villa set up. Give the lad some time and I think he'll impress.

[Rich_D]

Without the ball he's quality.

With the ball he's below average.

Problem? I think so.

Play him against teams were we need a bit more energy, tackling ability and he will do a very good job.

Play him as the box to box midfielder in replacement for Ireland. We're struggling

[steaknchips]

The whole idea, is you have a midfielder that can sit back and break up the play and one that is creative...Reo is excellent at the breaking up of the opposition and defensive duties,Ireland can then be excellent in the creative dpartment without the need to keep tracking back..Which I think he will have to do more of,if Petrov is in there with him rather than Reo.

[villabromsgrove]

This is how I see it. Now that we've sold Milner we need Reo's strength. He's not a great player but he's a strong player.

[beasley14]

This is how I see it. Now that we've sold Milner we need Reo's strength. He's not a great player but he's a strong player.

Thats a decent point you make there.