Bolitics The New Condem Government

[blandy]

That article slants the quotes - he didn't say he wanted them to win, he said he wished them well and would be fighting for the same votes. The "friendlier" thing could be a dig at Woolarse and his lies. There's plenty to knock politicians for, of any party, without making stuff up that isn't there.

Bloomin' rag.

[TrentVilla]

European leaders have reached "a clear and unanimous agreement" exempting Britain from paying for crises in the eurozone from 2013.

Well Done Mr C , a step in the right direction

Or telling other european countries to get their crisis in before 2013 !

The eurozone sovereign debt shit storm will be here not long after new year 2011, let alone 2013.

Have a look at the amount of debt Italy and Spain need to refinance next year - and keep your ears open for news on the Unicredit bank.

We'll be on the hook for the lot by the looks of things and will get dragged down with the rest of them.

Then in effect Cameron just shut the door after the horse had bolted.

[Awol]

European leaders have reached "a clear and unanimous agreement" exempting Britain from paying for crises in the eurozone from 2013.

Well Done Mr C , a step in the right direction

Or telling other european countries to get their crisis in before 2013 !

The eurozone sovereign debt shit storm will be here not long after new year 2011, let alone 2013.

Have a look at the amount of debt Italy and Spain need to refinance next year - and keep your ears open for news on the Unicredit bank.

We'll be on the hook for the lot by the looks of things and will get dragged down with the rest of them.

Then in effect Cameron just shut the door after the horse had bolted.

As we discussed earlier in the thread mate, Darling signed us up for this while Camermoron and Clegg were negotiating the coalition after the election.

Nothing this lot can do about it unfortunately - other than give us a referendum to get out of the house before the roof falls in, which we know they wont.

[tonyh29]

Again its how and what you want to do with the figures

Indeed which is why it's puzzling that you quote 2009 figures and the sky story (title Euro crises, bit of a clue don't you think as to why Japan aren't on it ) is quoting 2010 figures :-)

[TrentVilla]

As we discussed earlier in the thread mate, Darling signed us up for this while Camermoron and Clegg were negotiating the coalition after the election.

Nothing this lot can do about it unfortunately - other than give us a referendum to get out of the house before the roof falls in, which we know they wont.

Was more a statement than a judgement mate. On the face of it it sounds like Cameron has pulled a masterstroke but in reality its a lot less impressive.

Not passing judgement on him for that or attaching blame to him the blame lies with politicians past from both parties.

[drat01]

Again its how and what you want to do with the figures

Indeed which is why it's puzzling that you quote 2009 figures and the sky story (title Euro crises, bit of a clue don't you think as to why Japan aren't on it ) is quoting 2010 figures :-)

The point was fairly obvious Tony.

The figures that Sky - a keen supporter shall we say of Anti-EU right wing views - put out were projected rather than real ones from previous years. Also the inclination is that this is solely a EU problem, which it obviously is not. Also that its not just Eurozone members.

Funny how Belgium is not talked about in doom and gloom scare story manner when their debt vs GDP is actually quite high

[Awol]

Funny how Belgium is not talked about in doom and gloom scare story manner when their debt vs GDP is actually quite high

It has been Ian, it's just further down the list of potential inpatients.

[drat01]

People probably fell asleep when they were mentioned anyway :-)

[tonyh29]

The Lib Dems are now trying to win back the Student vote.

Which makes sense because Lib Dems and students have quite a lot in common:They're both on a course which will last about 3 or 4 years and they're going to be paying for it for the rest of their lives...

[leviramsey]

:-) - the way its made out that its a Euro crisis and forgetting the world. The CIA World factbook says that the debt as a % of GDP is different to how Sky report it

link

Japan - running at the second highest at 189.3%

Singapore - 113%

Iceland - 107%

Belgium - 97.6%

Canada - 75%

UK - 68.2%

Obviously the Sky one is an estimate and the CIA one is based on 2009 actuals.

Again its how and what you want to do with the figures

And also how you define things... e.g. do you include the present value of entitlements (e.g. pensions, the NHS) promised for the future? While such promises may not be as legally binding on the state as, say, money borrowed from the wealthy (that one set of promises takes a far higher precedence than the other is, well, rather telling and also rather sad), they're still commitments made by the state and should be accounted for as such.

[snowychap]

And also how you define things... e.g. do you include the present value of entitlements (e.g. pensions, the NHS) promised for the future? While such promises may not be as legally binding on the state as, say, money borrowed from the wealthy (that one set of promises takes a far higher precedence than the other is, well, rather telling and also rather sad), they're still commitments made by the state and should be accounted for as such.

But when one starts to guess about future liabilities, should one look at trying to be equally 'accurate' and guess about future assets, too?

[leviramsey]

And also how you define things... e.g. do you include the present value of entitlements (e.g. pensions, the NHS) promised for the future? While such promises may not be as legally binding on the state as, say, money borrowed from the wealthy (that one set of promises takes a far higher precedence than the other is, well, rather telling and also rather sad), they're still commitments made by the state and should be accounted for as such.

But when one starts to guess about future liabilities, should one look at trying to be equally 'accurate' and guess about future assets, too?

Hence the "e.g."

[snowychap]

Hence the "e.g."

:oops:

Furry muff. Sorry. :-)

[tonyh29]

Union reps going to Downing street next week to talk about the cuts ... hope Downing street have stocked up on Caviar and Champagne for them

surprised not to see any condemnation on the tactics employed by one MP against Nigel Evans in this thread though ....

[drat01]

It seems the cat is not only out of the bag but is also giving interviews and signing autographs. Cable admitted that the Tory party wants to end Cold Weather payments - and that they are opposing being tough on the banking sector. How the hell can this Gvmt stay as a coalition now that this is all out.

As many have said from day1 the cuts are not thought out and are targeted in the wrong places. It seems that the Tory led Gvmt are just walking over the LibDems, again as said.

Tory party wants to cut cold weather payments to pensionners and have not thought out polciy!

Vince Cable said he could quit coalition if pushed

Cabinet minister Vince Cable has said he is "embarrassed" by comments made privately suggesting he could walk out of the coalition.

The business secretary told undercover reporters from the Daily Telegraph he could "bring the government down" if they "push me too far".

He said being in coalition was like "fighting a war".

In a statement later Mr Cable said he regretted the comments and had no intention of leaving government.

The Telegraph reported that senior Lib Dem Mr Cable was recorded telling its reporters - who were posing as his constituents - that he had been involved in a "big argument" over dealing with the banks.

He said the Lib Dems had been pressing for a "very tough approach" which had been opposed by "our Conservative friends" and said he had been involved in a "big battle" over the cap on non-EU economic migration.

Mr Cable and Chancellor George Osborne were due to meet bank bosses on Monday but it was delayed because Mr Osborne was stuck in New York due to the snow. Mr Cable told the BBC on Sunday that the coalition was united in its determination to curb bank bonuses.

'Nuclear option'

Asked about his influence in the government, he reportedly said he was prepared to use the "nuclear option" and resign, if he was pushed too hard.

Mr Cable was recorded saying: "I have a nuclear option; it's like fighting a war. They know I have nuclear weapons, but I don't have any conventional weapons. If they push me too far then I can walk out and bring the government down and they know that.

Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote

I have no intention of leaving the government. I am proud of what it is achieving”

End Quote Vince Cable Business Secretary

"So it is a question of how you use that intelligently without getting involved in a war that destroys all of us. That is quite a difficult position to be in and I am picking my fights. Some of which you may have seen."

The business secretary also reportedly criticised the speed at which the coalition was trying to push through changes in the health service, local government and other areas, which he described as a "kind of Maoist revolution" and said it was "in danger of getting out of control"

"We are trying to do too many things, actually," he said.

"Some of them are Lib Dem inspired, but a lot of it is Tory inspired. The problem is not that they are Tory-inspired, but that they haven't thought them through. We should be putting a brake on it."

He said the axing of child benefit for higher earners had been done in a "rather cack-handed way" and added: "They haven't yet done the winter fuel payments, but that's coming, I think."

David Cameron pledged during the election campaign that a Conservative government would keep the winter fuel allowance, free television licence and free bus pass.

In a statement on Monday, Mr Cable said: "Naturally I am embarrassed by these comments and I regret them.

"I have no intention of leaving the government. I am proud of what it is achieving and will continue to play my full part in delivering the priorities I and my party believe in, which are enshrined in the coalition agreement."

Mr Cable has previously spoken out against the government's policy of imposing an interim cap on non-EU workers - suggesting it was damaging businesses. He has campaigned for it to be applied more flexibly.

BBC deputy political editor James Landale said Mr Cable had lifted the lid on some of the inner workings of the coalition government and could expect to be heckled by Labour MPs next time he stood up in the Commons.

[peterms]

Where does the money come from? The government either borrows or prints it. Either way **** over the people (be it through future taxation or inflation).

Well, where does money come from?

Governments don't borrow to get money, any more than they send out teams of tax collectors on horseback to raise tithes.

They don't print it, except as a means to have something transferable for people to use in shops, at least those where some physical exchange is still required.

By print, I mean "create" regardless of whether notes are physically printed. I don't believe you're eight years old, Peter.

The question stands: there's x units coming in from current taxation and y units going out in expenditure, with y being greater than x. From whence came x-y?

You seem to miss the central point, though at the same time, you seem to grasp it when you speak of money being "created". However, money doesn't "come in" from taxation. It is "created" (a good description) by people decreeing that someone has spending power.

Sometimes that's government "printing money", sometimes that's credit firms advancing spending power.

It doesn't, any longer, come from people growing, building or producing things of value and selling them for the tokens we call money. That's a bit of a problem, as it happens.

Where does private money come from? The kind untainted with the hand of government?

Private money is anything used as a means of exchange from fiat currency to gift certificates to so-called precious metals to straight-out barter. Only one of those three is tainted by the hand of government.

Again, it comes from someone decreeing that someone else has been afforded spending power. Actually, that's about all it takes. Anyone who has ever opened a credit card account will understand this.

Sometimes the spending power is based on assets, sometimes not. Sometimes the spender will be able to meet their obligations, sometimes not. In the case of banks which told each other they had spending power far, far beyond the value of their assets, that's not a problem. The poor mugs aka the general public will pick up the debt and pay for it via "austerity measures". Apparently.

[tonyh29]

Cable admitted that the Tory party wants to end Cold Weather payments

ermmm , actually he didn't

He said he ( Cable) "Thinks" it's coming .. a huge difference

but since it's been mentioned it does actually need looking at .. it's a blanket payment regardless .. my nan lives in a care home , doesn't have any heating bills and receives £400 each year , I have a relative who lives in Spain that also receives it .. absolute madness

To be honest Cable is a man with an over rated opinion of himself , nothing more than a charlatan on the economy ... with luck next time we see Cable on TV it will be on strictly come dancing

[snowychap]

It could be worse, he could be Osbourne. :crylaugh:

Edit: Good u-turn by Gove and the government on school sports.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Next year will be interesting. If Michael Portillo says the Euro will be the defining factor next year, then we are in for a big ol' Euro-scare (before the AV referendum anyone?) and Cameron doing a great deal in seperating the UK from the Euro-zone, like he's already started doing.

[snowychap]

If Michael Portillo says the Euro will be the defining factor next year, then...

bank on something else being [the defining factor]?