O'Neill - stay or go, the update

[sled]

To suggest MON should be sacked is a **** joke and anyone suggesting it should be ashamed. I mean seriously last week after pre-season we were world beaters, one bad performance and some shakey performances its the end of the world. Its not its a 2-0 loss to good side Wigan.

Its not ideal but get some f'ing perspective.

'We're not fickle, we just dont like you' No we are just fickle and its an absolute embarrassment.

How right you are with the last bit!

There are fans, supporters, followers who don't post on any internet forums, there are those who post on Vital Villa or Heroes & Villains, and those who post on VillaTalk who are fairly consistent.

Obviously opinions can change.

But people like Turamber, Jez, Big_John_10, Tricella, briny_ear, CastleBromVilla, PB, DundeeVilla and a whole host of others... these are people who are either very consistent or whose opinions change slowly and after much thought.

Then there's the fickle brigade. Those who scream about how great we are and time for the doubters to eat humble pie and other such crap after a 1-0 victory. And then one week later are calling the players shite and saying the manager must go.

[Risso]

It's all very well saying "fresh season, fresh start", but when the same old problems are there that wrecked our season last time out, it's hard not to think that the manager has lost the plot.

Our defence was abysmal last year. Yet O'Neill not only fails to bring in anybody in time for kick off, he also sells the one defender who was marginally better than the other two.

[Hanky]

We're not fickle. We just don't like losing nearly every game we play.

I must have dreamt us finishing 6th last season then.

Yes we did after a complete rubbish last three months of the season in which we did not play well in one game. This isn't just a knee-jerk reaction (although I'm in the stay camp for the moment).

[Fordy909]

Also if we do actually think about the good handfull of games we lost last season at the end, its not asif we were playing badly. We played well but just didnt have the energy left to kill games off. Its not asif we have been playing as bad as yesterday since the turn of the year.

There is very few of the bad run of games we had were I thought we were absolutely abysmal. This is a new season, a bad start admittedly, a few players short yes, but please hold back and see what position we are when the transfer window is closed atleast.

[rendelc]

Given our form for 2009 i am trying to see where our first victory will come from.

[Turamber]

Good post Fordy909, I don't agree with all of it, but definitely with the main message. We didn't seem at all prepared for the game yesterday and Petrov didn't appear fully fit, which was a worry. I think we were set-up to play a defensive Wigan and got cought cold by their willingness to attack us.

Didn't like the panic I saw on the pitch and the lack of fight and application. But I am sure the manager won't like it either.

4-5-1 would shore things up for now, but I don't see it as a long term formation. We are even more predictable with that formation and create very little. But it may help Davies get some confidence and help to get the best out of Petrov.

[Tomaszk]

We looked so sharp in preseason, I'm hoping Liverpool game will provide some hope, even amongst the loss we'll get.

Have people looked beyond that? Fulham at home.....very organised...just like Wigan...then bloody blues away.

[Hanky]

Then there's the fickle brigade. Those who scream about how great we are and time for the doubters to eat humble pie and other such crap after a 1-0 victory. And then one week later are calling the players shite and saying the manager must go.

I see what you mean sled but I don't blame people for expecting a fresh start to the season and then, like Risso said, the same old problems that hindered us last season to be even worse.

[Risso]

Don't know if this was mentioned earlier in the thread but if MON went I think some of our best prospects would be out of the door in the following transfer window. All of the work to date to put the squad together would be undone, a tragic waste when we only need another three decent players and a rethink of the formation to get back on track.

Definitely not time for him to go but he does need to look at what he is doing with brutal honesty and make some changes.

Another scenario might be that we get a decent manager in who ships out all of O'Neill's dross, eg Cuellar, Davies, Shorey, NRC, Heskey etc, and brings some decent talent in to complement the existing good players like Young and Milner. At the very least, we'd have a chance of having somebody organise the defence properly.

[Guest Ricardomeister]

why would we even be wasting our time being fans then since we "long for a defeat".

Honestly I think a lot of our more negative posters really enjoyed that game yesterday. There are all sorts of posters mentioning how 'they knew it was coming', and pointing out how they've been doomsaying for the last three years etc etc.

I can imagine them sitting at their keyboard, rubbing their hands with glee as they let loose all their frustration.

Expectations at Villa Park are ridiculous these days. We have no right to beat Wigan. We have the right to see effort and application from our players (something which we didn't see from most of the team yesterday). We have no right to see fancy dan football played out by world class players.

We are on our way to being the next Newcastle in terms of expectations. Our booing and negativity and lack of support to team and management are all our very own though.

I have to disagree about unrealistic expectations from fans. My personal expectations (and from what I have seen many share the same view) is that a top 6 finish and one good cup run (to at least a semi final) is what should happen. I don't see that as unrealistic. I have hardly seen any people demanding top 4 finishes and winning silverware.

Also, if expectations were unrealistic I think one of the main guilty parties here is the General. I specifically asked him what his realistic goals were for the season and he said winning the Premiership this season was a realistic (if unlikely) goal. Will you therefore advise the General that he is being unrealistic? I suspect not! As I have said before Randy has done a great job off the pitch and has helped improve the team but he has no record of real on-field success with his other team so why would we expect any difference here? The talk about Champions League football and emulating the 82 side etc were grossly premature imo. Nothing has changed my long-held view that Randy and Martin will not take us any further than 6th place. That is not a critcism of them, it is just the way I see it.

As for criticising the booing what other way is there to express dissatisfaction? You cannot have thousands of people stand up and say "You were not very good today Aston Villa, let's hope you play better next week!" Booing during a game serves no purpose but I booed them off at the final whistle. This was not because they performed badly as we all have off days. It was because of the total lack of backbone and fight which I think is unforgiveable. Our fans are no different from any other teams when it comes to booing as they all do it. The only reason that teams from the top 4 get booed less is because they tend to apply themselves and win games!

[Fordy909]

Anyways Everton got beat 6-1 and looked even more pathetic.

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

The new season has started, us and everton the most alike teams around have had awful starts, I have every faith this will not continue. We will look back evaluate and improve.

We really do need Shorey gone though asap and an assured centre back its 100000% more important than a marquee signing like Sneijder or VDV.

Id quite happily see us spend the rest of our budget on a top quaity centre back or two.

[Denis_B]

I think after Carew 'got injured' yesterday, the repurcussions totally unsettled the team and it wasn't helped by a bench that couldn't see that Delph was out of his depth. Shorey was dire but there was no alternative.

A complete mess of a game that was tactically inept from the sidelines......a long hard season looms UNLESS he does something quickly, and going back to a 451 would be a start

[Hanky]

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

That's the whole point. We had a disasterous end to the season.

[Tomaszk]

I don't think it gave the team any confidence that as we were lining up kick off Carew's name was being belted out. Probably lifted Wigan if anything.

[Risso]

Anyways Everton got beat 6-1 and looked even more pathetic.

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

What Everton fans do or don't think is of very little interest to me. I dare say I'll find out in the office tomorrow, as I work with a million of the buggers, but we have enough problems of our own without worrying about them.

Another team playing badly and getting stuffed is of little comfort to be honest.

[fran_villa]

Anyways Everton got beat 6-1 and looked even more pathetic.

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

The new season has started, us and everton the most alike teams around have had awful starts, I have every faith this will not continue. We will look back evaluate and improve.

We really do need Shorey gone though asap and an assured centre back its 100000% more important than a marquee signing like Sneijder or VDV.

Id quite happily see us spend the rest of our budget on a top quaity centre back or two.

everton have not won only 2 games in 18,sure they are the team we handed a 10 point lead to..**** shocking from our team and manager..

[sled]

Then there's the fickle brigade. Those who scream about how great we are and time for the doubters to eat humble pie and other such crap after a 1-0 victory. And then one week later are calling the players shite and saying the manager must go.

I see what you mean sled but I don't blame people for expecting a fresh start to the season and then, like Risso said, the same old problems that hindered us last season to be even worse.

I know, I know. But the performances in the Peace Cup (once MON had been sent from the bench) give the lie a teeny bit to the opinion that we are simply carrying on from where we left off in May. Though I realise that some would wish to portray the Peace Cup as some kind of pre-season kickabout.

But yes you're right (you usually are except when you talk about Carlos :winkold: ) for not blaming people for expecting a fresh start. Yesterday was certainly a kick in the teeth.

[kurtsimonw]

I still haven't seen one decent name mentioned in relation to who we should get in if MON is to leave. Jol is the only one I've seen, he did a greatjob at breaking the big 4 didn't he? But if we were to sack MON, very much like Newcastle with Sir Bobby and Spurs with Jol, we'd look like a bunch of morons and we'd also be that deluded club who thinks we're far better than we are. If we can't break the top 4, so be it, people make it sound **** easy, when it really isn't.

[Fordy909]

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

That's the whole point. We had a disasterous end to the season.

Last season was last season, we ended badly due to the fact we started in July, we lost our centre back and captain.

I know obviously the centre back situation hasnt been sorted but I 100% guarantee it will before Sept 1st.

In pre-season did we play good football against good opposition? Yes we did, the team is capable, and last season cannot be used as an excuse and its getting on my moobs that people keeping going on about it.

We messed up yesterday, we will not play like that next game I assure you.

[TheEgo]

Anyways Everton got beat 6-1 and looked even more pathetic.

Do you think Evertonians want Moyes out now? And they had a great end to their season.

What Everton fans do or don't think is of very little interest to me. I dare say I'll find out in the office tomorrow, as I work with a million of the buggers, but we have enough problems of our own without worrying about them.

Another team playing badly and getting stuffed is of little comfort to be honest.

No maybe not, but it does put things into perspective a little. I said yesterday that one match doesn't make a season.

Here's a scenario! before the season started how many people would have took 3 points from our opening two fixtures? well what happens if you go and spank Liverpool? aren't we where we thought we would be? I know it's all if's and but's....BUT let's not give up after one game eh?!