maxjackle Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Got to agree over the blue posts. They're up in arms over in the pally forum as they announced a nerf that isn't going ahead... but are looking into reducing paladin burst damage. They came up with some craziness of linking forbearance on avenging wrath with divine shield. It would mean that a pally has an ability for +30% dmg for 15 secs, that turns into -15% dmg for the next 45 secs.... useful. It seems the problem is with retribution pallys in pvp, so they came up with crazy plan that affected all pallys. Of course most pve pallys are holy or prot. I just can't get my head round the fact that they thought our dps was too high. On a side note- im also finding it hard to get grps for the 70 instances, I think its easier to get the flying ones or heroics than the standard ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 3 days left until my OS ban wears off! Ive already written 3 posts regarding the inability or the devs. and how they patch notes, blue posts doesnt even remotely reflect the current situation ingame! The bastards will have to answer this time, or ban me some more! Im thinking it will be option 2 Tarj. And Limpid, when you hit 68/69 you will find people are willing to do the instances you can do too. You can take things like Shattered Halls, Shadow Labs, Black Morass (have you done Old Hillsbrad by the way?) and Steam Vaults. And for three things in one post: http://elitistjerks.com Anyone else read this. I stumbled on it while looking for Karazhan stuff. Its pretty useful for info. http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=8806 Even seems there are maths behind Rogue? I just thought you pressed your button, then hit Cloak of Shadows if you were in the shit. Seems i may have been wrong THANK YOU! Haha just registered and delivered a page with whine and misery ive been holding in for too long! Ace 8) Ohhh that felt good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted March 1, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2007 It seems the problem is with retribution pallys in pvp, so they came up with crazy plan that affected all pallys. Of course most pve pallys are holy or prot. I just can't get my head round the fact that they thought our dps was too high. Your DPS is too high. Pre 2.0, no pally could match a shaman for DPS in PvP. Post BC? The amount of damage you do is ridiculous. As is the fact you can do it from within your bubble. You do too much damage for what is meant to be a defensive hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Problem is that for burst every class has to sacrifice survivability. If you want to be a canon, you must become a glass canon. This is probably more true in Mages, Warlocks and Rogues than other classes but its still true as a general rule. Except for Paladins. The "big" survival abilities a Pally has are all inherits, not talents. You can stick everything in retribution and still have two lives every 5 minutes. Three lives if you are happy to blow Lay on Hands. While Divine Shield remains an inherit (and it should always be one) then im afraid Paladins will be a defensive/support class with the best uninterpretable heal imaginable. For that reason alone your ability to damage with the best of the squishies should never be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Problem is that for burst every class has to sacrifice survivability. If you want to be a canon, you must become a glass canon. This is probably more true in Mages, Warlocks and Rogues than other classes but its still true as a general rule. Except for Paladins. The "big" survival abilities a Pally has are all inherits, not talents. You can stick everything in retribution and still have two lives every 5 minutes. Three lives if you are happy to blow Lay on Hands. While Divine Shield remains an inherit (and it should always be one) then im afraid Paladins will be a defensive/support class with the best uninterpretable heal imaginable. For that reason alone your ability to damage with the best of the squishies should never be allowed. Except Priests though, who sacrifice survivability without a choice and gain nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 The fact is though that Warcraft has changed so much from its original design that strict class descriptions don't really apply like they used to. Good examples would be that Priests are no longer easily definable as the best healers, Paladins are no longer easily definable as a defensive hybrid etc etc. The mass of additions that classes have received over the last 6 months, mainly due to the change of focus to PvP by Blizzard, has robbed the game of its original, clear cut class descriptions. You could go so far as to say the classes in WoW have been homoginised too much, stepping not just on toes but the entire foot. It's that certain innocent simplicity that I adored about the game back in the earlier days that seems to have been lost in translation with the arrival of TBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjackle Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Do you really think pallys have good dps though? I ask as I hate pvp- never do it. I'm a holy/ret pally and my dps is pretty bad really I think (i'm no number cruncher sorry). My moan is that they are affecting my role because of an effect in pvp that aI have no interest in. In the end this is why the nerf never went through. From what I can see they would of introduced a level 70 talent that would never have been used because of the side effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Problem is that for burst every class has to sacrifice survivability. If you want to be a canon, you must become a glass canon. This is probably more true in Mages, Warlocks and Rogues than other classes but its still true as a general rule. Except for Paladins. The "big" survival abilities a Pally has are all inherits, not talents. You can stick everything in retribution and still have two lives every 5 minutes. Three lives if you are happy to blow Lay on Hands. While Divine Shield remains an inherit (and it should always be one) then im afraid Paladins will be a defensive/support class with the best uninterpretable heal imaginable. For that reason alone your ability to damage with the best of the squishies should never be allowed. Except Priests though, who sacrifice survivability without a choice and gain nothing. I like it when classes that can HEAL themselves claim they have no survivability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Zomg I'm famous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 I like it when classes that can HEAL themselves claim they have no survivability Depends how easily you can stop the bastards healing though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Oh, and this Armory thing is pretty addictive. Im looking for famous players. Sie/Dan, you are both aware of Ming, arent you? Totally PvP focused Alliance Rogue. Has a website called worldofming. Always insisted combat was the best tree for PvP (and Rank 14/exhalted in all battlegrounds suggests he put the time in) Profile. Mute, from World of Roguecraft videos retired? Kishkumen, from World of Roguecraft videos Error. Pah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Its very beta like at the moment, getting errors every other char I look at, but what I will say to those "privacy" whiners, if you wish to be hidden then **** off can you view anyone else's stats....Has to work both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Why would people care unless they are bullshitters anyway? If someone wants to see your gear badly enough they can always find a way to inspect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I like it when classes that can HEAL themselves claim they have no survivability Depends how easily you can stop the bastards healing though! Actually some rogues dont have the IQ to grasp that part. Apparantly stunloc, silence, fear, stun, bash and every other **** cc we struggle with isnt a problem, becuase we CAN HEAL OURSELVES.. Tell me Dan, whats healing worth without DPS? How much would you cry if Blizzard took CoS, Vanish, blind, prep and sprint? Next time think eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have to agree, all that healing accomplishes against rogues is putting off the inevitable. Even poison cleansing has a chance to be resisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 You only have to take down my health pool once. Healing gives you survivability, don't deny it, ask Gul or Redemptus from our pvp team what they think of resto shammies, un-killable! Healing gives you a massive advantage, don't take it for granted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Ah so you are comparing a hybrid class with shield, totems and mail, to a clothie without offensive spells or crowd control. Good thinking. Are you seriously suggesting the ability to heal yourself is superior to massive crowd control and dps? Then i would say you know nothing about PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Ah so you are comparing a hybrid class with shield, totems and mail, to a clothie without offensive spells or crowd control. Good thinking. Well, I have probably the least offensive DPS in the whole game, and no crowd control whatsoever! And mail and a shield again just slows my eventual death against rogues and their multitude of ways of making my character unplayable! Still, not that bothered about PvP at the moment, if I was interested in that I'd have stayed pew pew and carried on taking the piss out of warriors! Having a ball in 5 mans, I just love getting a decent group and having a laugh. Did Shattered Halls without one death last night, and to be told thanks by everybody was a great feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Ah so you are comparing a hybrid class with shield, totems and mail, to a clothie without offensive spells or crowd control. Good thinking. Are you seriously suggesting the ability to heal yourself is superior to massive crowd control and dps? Then i would say you know nothing about PvP. I'm saying healing helps you survive, as it boosts your hitpoints, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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