Risso Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I hope that was a joke. If I'd deleted WoW after every patch that pissed me off I don't think I'd have made it out of Stonetalon Mountains! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Durn the Hungerer (over 100k life, 5 man boss) in Nagrand: Durn the Hungerers victim: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 this has been posted before, but its nice If you use a lot of that Ace2 stuff, its an updater. The mods you have it will update for you. Just install it. Extract it. Run it. Press F4 and then f12. Bobs yer uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5 Posted January 26, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2007 last attempt before I burn my Wow box et al in a fit of pique. Never seen such a unhelpful,uninformed poorly ran 'Customer/Technical' help system ever. Despite anyone with a Netgear router adsl modem not being able to connect - 'contact your ISP'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 26, 2007 Administrator Share Posted January 26, 2007 and you have an Orange mobile, must have been truly awful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5 Posted January 26, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2007 and you have an Orange mobile, must have been truly awful... Bah,don't get me started on those muppets.Never been any good since they were bought out by France Telecom? Anyway,WoW seems to work again,so am back in the fold....couldn't leave you lot to look after yourselves ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 :notworthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Thank god for that! I'm actually back in the UK this weekend so won't be on. Should have enough rested XP for a quick sprint past L64 and on towards L65 hopefully. Really, really enjoyed the VT lads Mana Tombs run the other night (me, Dan, Tarj, Sie helped by Cali). Thought we did a great job considering we had two L63's in the party. And anybody who doesn't want to take a shadow priest along is a complete numpty. Tarj's VE made healing an absolute piece of piss, and I'm only about one third resto. More VT runs please lads, so much more entertaining. (Tarj: "Roll for the chest". Dan: "Er, no don't!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Yeah we could try crypts i guess! The first boss is bloody great fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 My Lockpicking is maxed now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 Yeah, ill be definately up for an instance. Oh, and if you see a Dwarf Warrior called Wozza, kill him. He nailed me yesterday when waiting for a spawn in Terrokkar. I thought nothing of it but decided to get him back when i ressed, which i did. Then a couple of hours later i saw him and dotted him up, he blew recklessness and we both died. Then today he charged me when i was attacking a mob. I managed to CoEx kite him to death after skillcoiling his intercept. I got the bastard again at the Caravan place in south Terrokkar. Im 3-1 up with a draw at the moment. It needs to be higher. It needs to be 10-1. Kill him please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 27, 2007 Author Share Posted January 27, 2007 And he had his back turned when i saw him. 4-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Yeah, ill be definately up for an instance. Oh, and if you see a Dwarf Warrior called Wozza, kill him. He nailed me yesterday when waiting for a spawn in Terrokkar. I thought nothing of it but decided to get him back when i ressed, which i did. Then a couple of hours later i saw him and dotted him up, he blew recklessness and we both died. Then today he charged me when i was attacking a mob. I managed to CoEx kite him to death after skillcoiling his intercept. I got the bastard again at the Caravan place in south Terrokkar. Im 3-1 up with a draw at the moment. It needs to be higher. It needs to be 10-1. Kill him please. Killing warriors is my speciality, but I could do with a decent KOS mod, any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sie Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Opium was always my choice Riss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 A phenomenon I frequently notice on these forums (and in-game) is that many people simply do not understand the concept of proportional scaling. They see +damage on one item, +healing on another, and note that the +healing is almost twice as high, then think, "Wow, healing scales really well." This reasoning is because they only understand rates of power. They believe that because Ability A gains X DPS per +damage, and Ability B gains X HPS per +healing, everything is fine, because after all, healers are getting better returns per item level point, right? Honestly, Blizzard perpetuates this line of reasoning with the way they have built their spell progression system: their system is completely based off addition of rates. For the most part, adding X spell power will increase all spells by Y power per second (PPS). It does not, in any way, take into account the fact that Spell A might have a lower base PPS than Spell B. What happens if you then proceed to take two hypothetical spells, Spell A of 10 PPS and Spell B of 100 PPS, then using Blizzard's system of rate addition, add 10 PPS to both spells? Spell A becomes 20 PPS, and Spell B becomes 110 PPS. This is all fine, because both gained the same rate, right? Wrong. Let's discuss proportions for a moment. Take two classes, Healer and Nuker. Healer is designed to be able to heal about three times as much damage per second as Nuker can deal. This is so that Healer can have a significant effect as a support class in group PvP, enabling group strategies, and also giving Healer a bit of a bonus for playing a support class instead of a damage class. However, this is not about class design philosophies; it's about proportions. So, take Healer and Nuker. At base level, Healer is healing three times as much per second as Nuker is dealing damage. This ratio is decided to be the ideal point for class balance. Still, note what has happened here: I've established a ratio of power between two classes' abilities. This is also known as proportion. Nuker's power is 0.333x Healer's power. This is important, because if this value ever changes, then class balance has changed. Now, currently, Nuker has absolutely no way to defeat Healer in one-on-one combat. So, let's give him some precisely tuned abillities that, if used correctly, will allow Nuker to defeat Healer directly about 50% of the time. Note that these abilities are tuned for this 0.333x proportion of power. If this proportion increases, then these abilities will be too powerful. Consider that for a moment. Okay, now that we've set up our two classes and they can frolic in joy while PvPing in a balanced setting, let's add some gear into the equation. We need gear that improves their power output, right? So let's use Blizzard's system of rate addition, since it's already there. Let's say that, right now, Healer has 300 PPS and Nuker has 100 PPS. Let's say that our new gear stat, Spell Power, increases PPS by 1 per point. Okay, we've got some gear. Now let's outfit Healer and Nuker in some nice high end gear of 200 Spell Power. Healer now has 500 PPS and Nuker has 300 PPS. Looks good. Except, wait a minute, Nuker's proportion of power to Healer is now 0.6x! Nuker will now win every single encounter with Healer, because his abilities that were tuned to confront Healer when his power was 0.333x are now grossly overpowered! Not only this, but our entire design philosophy for the two classes is broken. Nuker can now practically ignore the presence of Healer in group PvP. Using the basic Calculus concept of a limit, we find that as Spell Power approaches infinity, the ratio between Nuker and Healer approaches 1:1. If you have trouble understanding this, then just keep imagining the ratio between their power at higher and higher levels of gear; at 500, at 1000, and so on. As it keeps increasing, Nuker becomes closer and closer to being able to equal Healer's healing rate. Clearly, if the proportion ever became 0.9x or more, there would be serious balance errors. Consider the previous paragraph carefully for a moment. It is crucial to understanding overall game balance. If relative power changes, then game balance has changed. Now, let's go back to World of Warcraft. Nuker and Healer directly parallel Mage and Priest. The proportion of Healing:Damage is approximately 3:1 at the base level. This proportion changes as gear increases. For the same reason as before, this is a balance failure. Blizzard has applied many attempted fixes to their Spell Power system to try to correct the more egregious problems resulting from differing base rates among spells, but as demonstrated, this system is fundamentally flawed when dealing with abilities that have varying base rates. The only way to fix it is to give every ability its own, unique coefficient based off its power in relation to some baseline. By far, the easiest way to construct a Spell Power progression system is to make it multiplicative. Multiplicative bonuses aren't even foreign to World of Warcraft; Critical Strike bonuses are multiplicative. A simple linear rating value, much like critical strike, that multiplied your power output would be perfect for preserving varying rates of power. This is known as proportional scaling. When people talk about scaling, what they really mean is proportional scaling. Scaling is the concept of taking an object and then multiplying it up to a different size. When someone is talking about different scales, you don't hear about additions or rates; you hear about things like "1:5200th scale." Scaling, in reality, always refers to proportions. With that in mind, the next time Healer tells you "my heals scale terribly" and you laugh at him because you saw an item that had almost twice as much +healing as your +damage items, remember this post. He is talking about proportional scaling. READ IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 I dont think any caster needed to know that unless they were a retard Trl. I do like how the guy writing it slips in "lets assume that something that isnt necessarily true is indeed true and the golden rule of everything casters relative power is balanced around" though. Almost so quitely so that a lot of people wont even notice it and read the rest of the article off of his "water tight" theorycraft. I hate vested interests masked as fact. Anyway, Limpid and Sie, remember our Druid friend from Hellfire last night? He isnt so tough on his own. Especially when he is feared with four dots and three mobs beating on him before he realises what the hell is going on. Props to Dan for reminding me about Opium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I dont think any caster needed to know that unless they were a retard Trl. Point beeing? :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 But Nayson, i consider myself fairly high on +healing, but accepting the idea of nuker vs healer and nukers having 0.333% of the powers, how do i balance you? You probably are turning 600 spellpower soon, while im at 911 unbuffed. Isnt that relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 why should you accept 0.333 though? Cos that guy said so? i often find myself outhealed. one of the best ways to beat a lock (especially demon spec) is to outheal his manapool (non affliction locks are horribly mana ineffienct) and wait for lifetap. It works. Ive been on the wrong end of it plenty of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 But isnt 0.333 comparison nicked from our starting spot in WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts