snowychap Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 so will a lot others Perhaps they will but we might well be first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 As a work representative myself, better known previously as a shop steward, then I think some of you lads are wrong to knock unions. .... Mark, I'm not sure there have been many people knocking unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 us or the states ? their rescue package has been held up they soon will have to make a descion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 LIBOR overnight rates dropped from 2% to 1.5% is that not good news to get inter bank lending started again ? Repeat after me - it's not the price, it's the availability. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 don;t need to be in a union to knwo your work rights doesn;t help though, you get acked because the conditions are so packed, ok you may get some money but not your job backYou been drinking again? Reading between the lines - no you don't have to be in a union - but if you are, you have someone to phone when your boss talks shite like that. Otherwise you're by yourself - and it's cold lonely world out there in the snowdrifts. oh don;t get me wrong, I am in a union for that reason but many others will not and there are options open, not easy though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 LIBOR overnight rates dropped from 2% to 1.5% is that not good news to get inter bank lending started again ? Repeat after me - it's not the price, it's the availability. :winkold: Well to ignore the price would be foolish. How much are HBOS paying for their funding - 12%, RBS - 12%, Barclays - 14%. So why would they lend that back out at 2% or 4%. The recapitalisation of the banks was never going to release funding for lending. It stopped the banks collapsing yes, but let's not mistake what has happened so far. The BoE rate is utterly irrelevant to banks who are having to pay massive dividends out to those who saved them. An alternative plan to bring cheaper cash into banks is needed. ISAs don't bring money into banks as most of them are equity based and not cash based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 As a work representative myself, better known previously as a shop steward, then I think some of you lads are wrong to knock unions. .... Mark, I'm not sure there have been many people knocking unions. Snowy in all fairness I have read comments on this thread that have stated that Unions have too much power and/or influence. They don't have either they just have enough backing to have the balls to stand up for any working man/woman The choice is there for anyone who works. Join a Union pay your dues and you will have the backing of a Union if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If your mate allows himself to be treated that way then he is foolish.yep, it is a scare tactic a lot of companies will use Was he in a union? It doesn't matter, if he was permanent staff it was illegal to fire someone for not making it to work because of the weather. Consult a Lawyer and he'll make a packet. Happened to my brother before, work wanted rid of him for no reason so he got a Lawyer. Won the case handy. What kind of sick human being fires someone for not making it to work in a Blizzard anyway. Should be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 the kind of people that run companies Cv, the kind of hard hearted bosses that are still there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Snowy in all fairness I have read comments on this thread that have stated that Unions have too much power and/or influence. Ah, don't get me wrong I know there have been a few comments of that ilk but only the odd person in the last few pages has been condemning unions. Join a Union pay your dues and you will have the backing of a Union if needed. That's if you want it. Or learn your rights yourself and stand up for yourself. Don't let your employer walk over you or any of your colleagues. And certainly treat anything coming from an HR department with a healthy deal of skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 As a work representative myself, better known previously as a shop steward, then I think some of you lads are wrong to knock unions. I have no problem with Private Sector Unions. The reason is because a balance will be found in the end becuase the Union know the Employer has limitations on what it can pay. While the Employer knows they will suffer industrial action if they take advantage of their workers, so will conceed to fair demands. My problem is with Public Sector Unions. They are huge and very powerful. Their Employer is the Government who has access to potentially limitless finance via taxation. The also know their members vote, so they hold that over the Government too. So when a Government is presented with a budget surplus it's hard to negotiate with Unions demanding blanket pay increases particularly close to an election date, because if you don't conceede you could lose your place in Government. It's easier to just give them the money, they'll be happy and you'll get re-elected. There is a big difference between the two types of Union in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So public sector workers ought to be denied the right of access to unions? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 My aunt works for the TGWU and I had a brief stint at the Derby office. Careful what you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If your mate allows himself to be treated that way then he is foolish.yep, it is a scare tactic a lot of companies will use Was he in a union?It doesn't matter, if he was permanent staff it was illegal to fire someone for not making it to work because of the weather. Of course it doesn't matter - legally. But if you are in a union, it's a hell of lot easier to get a lawyer, hell of a lot easier to make your case and a hell of a lot more unlikely the employer would risk such an action. If the private sectors unions were as powerful - or even maybe - perish the thought - aligned themselves with with the public sector unions maybe they would have a voice. But when none of the private sector workers can be arse paying a couple of quid / euros a week to get the union benefits, why would the public sector unions bother with them. You only have yourself to blame unfortunately. If you joined unions and worked with them to restore the employer / employee balance you might be able to negotiate contracts that gave you all your money in real contracts instead of imaginary discressionary bonuses that can be taken away when your only other option is to go walk the streets and look for another bank hiring quants (ps RBS and HSBC are hiring in london). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So public sector workers ought to be denied the right of access to unions? :? No, but the "Social Partnership" where all the public sector unions get together and meet the Government every year or 18 months and bargain for blanket pay rises for all public servants is totally wrong. Utterly wrong. Different areas of the Public sector should get different levels of pay increases. The Grada (Police) are hugely underpaid, while the whole middle management of the Health Service Executive are over paid. It's simply a waste of money giving blanket pay increases in this manner where people on 200,000 get the same % pay increase as someone on 20,000. Someone explain the logic in that ? Ireland is so so different to the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 You only have yourself to blame unfortunately. If you joined unions and worked with them to restore the employer / employee balance you might be able to negotiate contracts that gave you all your money in real contracts instead of imaginary discressionary bonuses that can be taken away when your only other option is to go walk the streets and look for another bank hiring quants (ps RBS and HSBC are hiring in london). Nice little dig at me there Gringo. :winkold: Here is why I personally don't need a Union. I am a very talented and hard worker and I got my promotion and pay increases and all because I'm a valued employee. If I was under paid I would find another job. I will leave my current job at some time in the future I'm sure when a better opportunity arises. Also my bonuses are not imaginary, they are contractual and cannnot be taken away any easier than my pay. I've detailed the exceptional circumstances a few pages back about why they were postponed indefinitly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Also my bonuses are not imaginary, they are contractual and cannnot be taken away any easier than my pay. I've detailed the exceptional circumstances a few pages back about why they were postponed indefinitly. They have, however, been taken away - indefinitely. If it's not in your pocket it is in someone else's. How can you rely upon an assurance that you will at some point get this bonus? Was this ability to indefinitely suspend your bonus detailed in your contract? If so then it wasn't very sensible to rely upon it as part of your remuneration package. If I was under paid I would find another job. As you aren't intending to leave your current post and yet have, in your words, been subjected to a 20% pay cut then I'd assume that you were, previously, overpaid. In which case, if your employer is overpaying its workforce by 20% then they are lucky to still be in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Did you even read why my bonuses was suspended? The Government stopped it, not my Employer. They're negotiating a recapitalisation of the bank and forced the suspension of bonuses. They have not been cancelled and considering the circumstances I'm thankful for the fight and effort my employer put up to honour our contracts. Rumour is the bonuses will be paid in the summer. Also please find the fairness in the blanket % increaes the Public Sector Unions get from the Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 You only have yourself to blame unfortunately. If you joined unions and worked with them to restore the employer / employee balance you might be able to negotiate contracts that gave you all your money in real contracts instead of imaginary discressionary bonuses that can be taken away when your only other option is to go walk the streets and look for another bank hiring quants (ps RBS and HSBC are hiring in london). Nice little dig at me there Gringo. :winkold: Here is why I personally don't need a Union. I am a very talented and hard worker and I got my promotion and pay increases and all because I'm a valued employee. If I was under paid I would find another job. I will leave my current job at some time in the future I'm sure when a better opportunity arises. Also my bonuses are not imaginary, they are contractual and cannnot be taken away any easier than my pay. I've detailed the exceptional circumstances a few pages back about why they were postponed indefinitly.CV - it wasn't a dig. It was a realistic interpretation of your situation. People who have little power band together to form unions. You have forgone that option and would rather fight the world yourself. That is your option. But it gives you no right to condemn those that do band together. They are only strong in comparison to your collective weakness. I guess you probably earn more than a teacher does, but you denounce their "extortionate" wages. Why are you more valuable to the economy than them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I guess you probably earn more than a teacher does, but you denounce their "extortionate" wages. Why are you more valuable to the economy than them? I'm not going to debate contributions to the Economy. The world is a complex place. But most of those teachers could not do what I do while I'm sure I could do what they do. The world does not reward just hard work I'm afraid. Intelligence and natural talent plays a very big part too. I don't make the rules of the game I'm forced to play. But I play it as best I can. I'm able to do my job and my employer decides how much I deserve to be paid, if I could do a similar or better job somewhere else and get paid more I'd move. The system set the rates at which I'm paid not me. If didn't have friends who became teachers just because it's a handy job with excellent holidays I may see them all as saints. But I see them just as I see myself, people playing the game of life, making their own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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