Gringo Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 thing is Gringo, all countries regardless of colour are doing the same basic plan Blind leading the blind? :winkold:They're all following the do something, do anything, oh that didn't work, do something again. But they are all doing different things - eg no one cutting VAT (maybe abolitioning it would have caused more of a shock abd maybe more of a following). I liked the call from one of the charities last week that the £12.5bn cost of the VAT chop could have brought 100,000 social houses into the supply chain, employing builders, requiring supplies balancing the housing stock. Not buying existing houses - construction companies / landlords /lad owners have offloaded a lot of cash off the balance sheet through dividends - screw their outstanding stock. Build from the bottom. A great policy - in theory - someone is bound to point out that all the generated jobs would be taken by poles. And the economic judgement has to be called into account. In November, the recession was going to be over in June with recovery in the second half of the year. That's been postponed now I think. And it's not like many other weren't disputing the predictions - probably the majority of economic commentators were saying 2009 was going to be worse than 2007. Yes we've read what you've said on this thread and the bits you avoid saying. Others are saying it though. Bankers make easy scapegoats, but... With public anger against bankers at fever pitch, we are in danger of falling for a big lie about the main causes of the financial meltdown. Greed, lack of governance and irresponsible risk-taking obviously played a major part, but none of it would have happened but for the climate of easy money, lax regulation and fiscal irresponsibility that fuelled the bubble. Policy mistakes in the early part of the crisis, when central bankers, regulators and governments failed to grasp the enormity of the dangers, may also have contributed to the collapse in confidence that did for the banking system. No politician is ever going to accept that perhaps they were as culpable as the bankers. With their multimillion-pound bonuses, top bankers make easy scapegoats, and they deserve much of the opprobrium which is reserved for them. But it's not just greed and hubris; it's more complicated than that. Just occasionally during the hearing, you got little glimpses of the true picture. Unfortunately, they were few and far between, and there was virtually no time given to exploring with these disgraced representatives of their trade how things might be improved to stop it all happening again. Maybe they don't deserve their say, but it would have been interesting to hear it, none the less. There is not a single one of them who doesn't every night beat himself up for the mistakes that were made. I don't want to apologise for Sir Fred and the others. They forgot the basic principles of sound banking in the dash for growth, but they weren't the only ones who thought heavy reliance on wholesale funding perfectly safe, or failed to anticipate the way in which it would break down. The Financial Services Authority and the Bank of England also failed to notice what one MP repeatedly and mistakenly insisted on calling the "siren warnings". That's because, beyond the odd diatribe about the dangers of excessive debt, there were hardly any of them. It suited the politicians as much as the bankers for the party to be maintained at full pelt. You are not going to get politicians taking the punch bowl away just when there is an election looming. Yes ALL TO BLAME, not just everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 don't you ever read what I say yes and thus when you mentioned other countries were following "our "lead and specifically mentioned VAT cuts in your statement whilst trying fiscal stimulus whether a VAT cut or a tax cut ... i thought it was valid to ask my question ... apart from Kazakhstan what other countries have done a VAT cut ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Blind leading the blind? Wink Yeah physical disability is funny ............ Clarkson you have a fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 From last night's Newsnight, an Oliver James rant at Theresa May and Tony McNulty - iplayer link on 43m20s. The look on Theresa May's face was effing priceless. :crylaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Blind leading the blind? Wink Yeah physical disability is funny ............ Clarkson you have a fan! Nothing to do with Gordon Brown's physical problem, i.e. the loss of one eye and the deterioration in the other eye. It was a metaphorical 'blind'. I thought about explaining myself in my post but thought it unnecessary. It certainly was unnecessary with the other Ian. So, just for clarification, the assumption that you made was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sir James Crosby resigns as deputy chairman of FSA.Following the thread of inept appointments - from PMQs Angela Bufton-Tufton, MP (Con, Lymeswold) : Why has the govt appointed someone as chairman to UK Financial Investments in order to protect taxpayers interest whose previous role was helping run tax evasion schemes. SuperGordo, PM (nuLab, Scotland) : We haven't - he's acting chairman. A straight answer to a straight question? Another banker leaves government post Glen Moreno to quit as chairman of agency overseeing £37bn taxpayer bail-out after being caught up in tax evasion row The government was accused of losing another favoured bankertoday today as the Treasury prepared to advertise for a new chairman for UK Financial Investments, the body set up to look after £37bn of taxpayer funds invested in bailed-out banks. The role is currently held by Glen Moreno, who was revealed to be a trustee of Liechtenstein Global Trust (LGT), a private bank accused of aiding tax evasion. Moreno is not thought to be applying for the advertised post. ... Moreno said: .... "I very much look forward to working with UKFI and its permanent chairman in due course. I was asked to step in and chair UKFI on an acting basis. At no point have I sought the role on a permanent basis." ...more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I keep saying I have yet to see a viable alternative plan being suggested heard Cable today and he said the whole banking system should be privatise for two years, sort out the regulations and then floated again I am assuming you mean nationalised :winkold: but how can you post both of these one after the other? of course nationalised but is privatising the whole of the banking system really feasible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sir James Crosby resigns as deputy chairman of FSA.Following the thread of inept appointments - from PMQs Angela Bufton-Tufton, MP (Con, Lymeswold) : Why has the govt appointed someone as chairman to UK Financial Investments in order to protect taxpayers interest whose previous role was helping run tax evasion schemes. SuperGordo, PM (nuLab, Scotland) : We haven't - he's acting chairman. A straight answer to a straight question? Another banker leaves government post Glen Moreno to quit as chairman of agency overseeing £37bn taxpayer bail-out after being caught up in tax evasion row The government was accused of losing another favoured bankertoday today as the Treasury prepared to advertise for a new chairman for UK Financial Investments, the body set up to look after £37bn of taxpayer funds invested in bailed-out banks. The role is currently held by Glen Moreno, who was revealed to be a trustee of Liechtenstein Global Trust (LGT), a private bank accused of aiding tax evasion. Moreno is not thought to be applying for the advertised post. ... Moreno said: .... "I very much look forward to working with UKFI and its permanent chairman in due course. I was asked to step in and chair UKFI on an acting basis. At no point have I sought the role on a permanent basis." ...more on link well lets face it there is not a dodgy tax evading banking out there ? you do woner in 5 years times how things will pan out will the banking system return to what it oce was or has this changed things for ever ? we polticians and the public be so complacent again ? probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I suppose no one can doubt that the Japanese though build the best trains and weren;t the virgin pendolino's built in Italy ? Try Birmingham. They were built about 10 minutes from Villa Park, in Washwood Heath. Allstom "own" them though, and they are French. I think. oh right could have swor they were Italian, wasn;t there a big fuss at the time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 of course nationalised but is privatising the whole of the banking system really feasible ? I'd have a punt that we might find out later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 of course nationalised but is privatising the whole of the banking system really feasible ? I'd have a punt that we might find out later this year. bloody hell said privatised again !! yeah we might it is getting close to that but HBSC seems solid, Barclays seems ok but stuff around about it's possible liabilities and not much else left really ... I think it will only take one major bank to go here or the US to really cause some serious shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 bloody hell said privatised again !! Ha ha. Don't worry. You're in a select club (Grings has done it once or twice but he may have been a bit tipsy ). yeah we might it is getting close to that but HBSC seems solid, Barclays seems ok but stuff around about it's possible liabilities and not much else left really ... I think the investigations into the banks in the US might have a bit to do with how things pan out and, as I've mentioned, Barclays may not be in as good a position as it might seem. I think it will only take one major bank to go here or the US to really cause some serious shit Coming, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 yep Obama is indicating another one iw close and it won;t be rescued isn't citgroup looking very vulnerable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Quite possibly. Where did you see Obama saying that? It would be interesting to read/hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 was on on BBc just before they debated the rescue package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 was on on BBc just before they debated the rescue package Cool. Cheers, Ian. Missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 yep Obama is indicating another one is close and it won't be rescued so the opposite of what labour have done in the UK then ? what happened to the world following our lead ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 tony the US have had it far worse they have seen two banks go and many others taken over, peopel said that Lehmans should not have been the only one to go the basics are exactly the ame but the 'bext time' it happens and Obama is been advised it will then thats different what happens if Barclays is next ? we don;t know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 so based on your replies ... would you concede then that when it comes to VAT and banks ..actually we haven't shown the world what to do and Brown most certainly hasn't saved the world ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 tony what the **** has that go to with the topic, nothing at all, just poltical oint scoring, because I asked you a simple yes or no question a few pages back you either missed or refused to answer so YES or NO would you save (nationalise) the banks if they needed it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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