Thug Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, bobzy said: t just doesn’t seem to happen in other sports. No-one seems to watch, say, Iga Swiatek and goes “**** hell, even Andy Murray’s brother is better than this”. But that’s not what he’s saying tho is it? He’s not saying that tier 40 men’s team would beat top tier women’s teams - so it’s pointless. What he’s saying is that you would think the quality of the tactics/technique would be better for what is the pinnacle of the women’s game - with the majority of the participants now having enjoyed entire childhoods in the game. Women’s tennis is technically brilliant, and if power could be taken out of the equation, they’d probably give the men a good game. His observation is valid, but I must say, the game has come on in leaps and bounds in just a few years. It was unwatchable particularly with goalkeepers being a total farce, and now it is rather enjoyable - well worthy of attending/televising. A few more years and this will be a very polished product. There are already some very very talented players. Just not enough of them, yet. Edited August 9, 2023 by Thug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Thug said: But that’s not what he’s saying tho is it? He’s not saying that tier 40 men’s team would beat top tier women’s teams - so it’s pointless. What he’s saying is that you would think the quality of the tactics/technique would be better for what is the pinnacle of the women’s game - with the majority of the participants now having enjoyed entire childhoods in the game. 13 hours ago, Genie said: There’s some good players and good teams, but a lot of nations that would get turned over by a good Sunday league side I’m certain. Uh huh. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Uh huh. Both points can be true. 1) A good Sunday league side would beat some of these international sides. 2) Even if accounting for the difference in strength between men and women the lower levels of technical and tactical skill is clear. The gap continues to close but for now it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Genie said: Both points can be true. 1) A good Sunday league side would beat some of these international sides. 2) Even if accounting for the difference in strength between men and women the lower levels of technical and tactical skill is clear. The gap continues to close but for now it is what it is. 1 hour ago, bobzy said: But it's entirely irrelevant. There's not going to be men in the women's game or vice-versa (avoiding the obvious "but what about trans"), so comparing the two technically/physically/in any way is utterly futile. We don't compare technicalities on swimming or tennis or cricket or rugby or athletics or badminton... it's always football. A better comparison would be the women's game now compared to the women's game 10 years ago, and seeing how the game sport has evolved. I feel like we're just going in circles now Edited August 9, 2023 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Genie said: The gap continues to close but for now it is what it is. Who cares what 'the gap' is? Just don't watch it if you don't enjoy it. **** hell. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Who cares what 'the gap' is? Just don't watch it if you don't enjoy it. **** hell. Goes back to my original point, why do people get so tetchy about the topic? Its weird. People more than happy to discuss the downfalls of any number of clubs or players but when it’s women’s football knickers get in a twist about it. Forest look pretty poor this year ”well don’t **** watch football ever again then if you don’t like it” Edited August 9, 2023 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, Genie said: Goes back to my original point, why do people get so tetchy about the topic? Its weird. People more than happy to discuss the downfalls of any number of clubs or players but when it’s women’s football knickers get in a twist about it. It's an extremely boring comparison that doesn't get made about other sports. I bet a professional female comparison-maker would make a way better comparison than you've done here, proper embarrassing for you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: Uh huh. You’re still missing the point. A good Sunday league team WOULD probably turn over the england women’s team. He’s not saying the women’s game is pointless because of this fact. 34 minutes ago, Thug said: He’s not saying that tier 40 men’s team would beat top tier women’s teams - so it’s pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, Thug said: You’re still missing the point. A good Sunday league team WOULD probably turn over the england women’s team. He’s not saying the women’s game is pointless because of this fact. No-one is discussing that. It's literally the comparison to men's football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, Thug said: A good Sunday league team WOULD probably turn over the england women’s team. Everybody knows this. What's the point of stating the obvious? Clearly, the purpose is to diminish the sport and the athletes. It's boring and sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Genie said: Goes back to my original point, why do people get so tetchy about the topic? Its weird. People more than happy to discuss the downfalls of any number of clubs or players but when it’s women’s football knickers get in a twist about it. Forest look pretty poor this year ”well don’t **** watch football ever again then if you don’t like it” Do you watch your lads football team and, when talkiing about it later, go "I mean, they're doing pretty well but they're just so technically off League Two level". Or when you're watching Tamworth, do you chat about it with the other fans going "Sure, they've made some progress this season but they're just so far off the professional football pyramid it's unreal. There's so much progress to be made.". I reckon on both counts, the answer will be no. And yet both of these have more relevance to the men's game than women's football 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Or when you're watching Tamworth, do you chat about it with the other fans going "Sure, they've made some progress this season but they're just so far off the professional football pyramid it's unreal. There's so much progress to be made.". Yes, that’s EXACTLY the type of thing people discuss up and down the country. I am sure on this board there are discussions about areas Villa need to improve to complete with the big 4/6 clubs in the country. It’s normal. 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Everybody knows this. What's the point of stating the obvious? Clearly, the purpose is to diminish the sport and the athletes. It's boring and sexist. Not at all, it’s only sexist if you make it sexist. It’s an observation, like when people say the Scottish Premiership is of a similar standard to the Championship or League 1. It’s not racist against Scottish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, Genie said: Yes, that’s EXACTLY the type of thing people discuss up and down the country. I am sure on this board there are discussions about areas Villa need to improve to complete with the big 4/6 clubs in the country. Yes, it's EXACTLY the thing they do when comparing to similar teams in similar competitions. Discussing what Villa need to kick on and push for the top 4/6 clubs in the country is a worthwhile discussion. Those discussions would absolutely not have happened when Villa were in the Championship. I'm willing to bet vast amounts that you don't compare your son's football to League Two level and you don't compare Tamworth to the professional pyramid - because those things are so far removed from where those teams are that it's a meaningless comparison. What you probably do is compare Tamworth to is other teams in the same league. You may also compare you son's team to other teams in the same league. However, when it comes to women's football, it's always the same old boring "a Sunday League team could beat this lot" shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Not at all, it’s only sexist if you make it sexist. It’s an observation, like when people say the Scottish Premiership is of a similar standard to the Championship or League 1. It’s not racist against Scottish people. Like Les Dennis making 'observations' about his mother-in-law, or a male manager 'observing' how he'd like to pinch his secretary's arse. Being an 'observation' doesn't mean it's not sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Everybody knows this. What's the point of stating the obvious? Clearly, the purpose is to diminish the sport and the athletes. It's boring and sexist. I did not read his comments as trying to diminish the sport. So not ‘clearly’. In fact could you not argue that it’s the opposite of sexist - To believe that the women’s international team ought to be capable of out performing the men at a much higher level than Sunday league? What’s boring? The discussion about how good the women can realistically get? I put it to you, at what level do u think the women ought to be able to beat the men by 2030? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Like Les Dennis making 'observations' about his mother-in-law, or a male manager 'observing' how he'd like to pinch his secretary's arse. Being an 'observation' doesn't mean it's not sexist. It doesn’t mean it is either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thug said: I did not read his comments as trying to diminish the sport. So not ‘clearly’. In fact could you not argue that it’s the opposite of sexist - To believe that the women’s international team ought to be capable of out performing the men at a much higher level than Sunday league? What’s boring? The discussion about how good the women can realistically get? I put it to you, at what level do u think the women ought to be able to beat the men by 2030? How good women's football can realistically get has absolutely **** all to do with the men's game. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thug said: I did not read his comments as trying to diminish the sport. So not ‘clearly’. In fact could you not argue that it’s the opposite of sexist - To believe that the women’s international team ought to be capable of out performing the men at a much higher level than Sunday league? What’s boring? The discussion about how good the women can realistically get? I put it to you, at what level do u think the women ought to be able to beat the men by 2030? And I put it to you, that comparing female players to male players *is* what's sexist. They don't need to be better than Sunday league, or better than League 2, or better than the Scottish Premiership. They are not competing against men. They are playing the sport, as women, and that's it. Again, if you find it boring, turn it off. But women don't have to achieve a particular level to please you, or me for that matter. Take it for what it is or don't take it at all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: How good women's football can realistically get has absolutely **** all to do with the men's game. What are you talking about? of course it has got something to do with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thug said: What are you talking about? of course it has got something to do with it. In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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