Kiwivillan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 1 minute ago, TRO said: but being Devils Advocate, its hard to keep players happy, until we are actually, competing in the amount of games we are hoping for this season. When we establish ourselves, to that degree, maybe its easier to keep quality players happy with the bench. some of the teams who have been consistently in the top 6, have found it easier to keep players happy.....we are only just arriving at that station. 100% what majority of my posts are based on. Devil's advocate or Socratic method etc. To add I view the table under Emery, not 7th for the season and not writing off some players that others do unreasonably imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, TRO said: I get your point...but being Devils Advocate, its hard to keep players happy, until we are actually, competing in the amount of games we are hoping for this season. When we establish ourselves, to that degree, maybe its easier to keep quality players happy with the bench. some of the teams who have been consistently in the top 6, have found it easier to keep players happy.....we are only just arriving at that station. I would never argue against better quality players, but I am trying to be reasonable to our current status, Diaby was a huge outlay, considering our revenue streams. I don't think Chambers or Dendoncker, have let us down, when they have come on, and all good teams need utility players...we need players to nullify the enthusiasm/ fight back from opposing teams. I am not disagreeing with your sentiment....I just think we need to build gradually on last seasons impressive haul of points. I am already impressed with our statement signings, I think we will now sign some good value for money/ more modest, ones..... We have to remember, we secured 1.96 points per game last season, under the Maestro ,that is a massive endorsement to the players we already have, and we have just signed 3 top class additions....plus young talent knocking on the door. I Know, we are all excited, but we have to improve gradually.....then it becomes sustainable. Yeah, it’s kind of a fine balance but as stated before: competition > cover, where we can do it… It depends on how high we are setting our sights in terms of achieving something and what we can afford… Regarding last season, we had much less games to play and other teams “off it”… I don’t think it’s as simple or clear cut as - we were the 3rd best team in the league that year so will be the same or thereabouts this season… too many factors and different context to take into account. The new season will be a whole other “kettle of fish” and bring up many more challenges… we might have a bit of a transition period too, as players adapt to genuinely competing in multiple competitions for a change… We can’t put too much pressure on and raise expectation too highly, but I’m sure the intent and ambition is there - especially for Unai. - I tell you though, one of the things I’m most looking forward to is facing, disrupting and beating the “big teams” again and probably more often - Unai has given me much more faith and belief in our ability to do so, and already demonstrated it. I genuinely feel we are going to shock a few… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I genuinely feel we are going to shock a few… I agree with current squad even if transfer window "slammed shut" tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said: I agree with current squad even if transfer window "slammed shut" tomorrow We can agree on that… we saw it last season. Properly humbled the likes of Newcastle, Man Poo, Chelsea, Spurs… am I missing anyone? We are going to be a good, dangerous and entertaining side… I really enjoy watching us play and have craved this sort of style for many years, maybe even decades… we actually pass and keep the ball so well now… thanks to the main man… we used to be so poor at that, a major frustration for me for so long… - I just feel we can achieve even more with extra quality and players of Unai’s choice rather than just those he inherited and made the most of… Pau, Youri and Moussa are excellent signings… we are stronger… Yeah, I wouldn’t be upset or worried if the window closed (it would also mean other teams can’t strengthen any further) but I’m always open to adding more quality… I guess that’s where we differ a bit… I’ve never had so much faith and belief in a manager as Unai - my favourite. - How many examples are there of such a huge managerial upgrade? From SG to Unai…. WOW… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Yeah, it’s kind of a fine balance but as stated before: competition > cover, where we can do it… It depends on how high we are setting our sights in terms of achieving something and what we can afford… Regarding last season, we had much less games to play and other teams “off it”… I don’t think it’s as simple or clear cut as - we were the 3rd best team in the league that year so will be the same or thereabouts this season… too many factors and different context to take into account. The new season will be a whole other “kettle of fish” and bring up many more challenges… we might have a bit of a transition period too, as players adapt to genuinely competing in multiple competitions for a change… We can’t put too much pressure on and raise expectation too highly, but I’m sure the intent and ambition is there - especially for Unai. - I tell you though, one of the things I’m most looking forward to is facing, disrupting and beating the “big teams” again and probably more often - Unai has given me much more faith and belief in our ability to do so, and already demonstrated it. I genuinely feel we are going to shock a few… Good post...like it, well balanced. I agree. Ps as you allude to....I think Spurs and Chelsea will be tougher, this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 24 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: 100% what majority of my posts are based on. Devil's advocate or Socratic method etc. To add I view the table under Emery, not 7th for the season and not writing off some players that others do unreasonably imo Like it...thats me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Just now, TRO said: Good post...like it, well balanced. I agree. Ps as you allude to....I think Spurs and Chelsea will be tougher, this season. I think… I have a lot more faith in the manager than the players… That’s what gives me the most faith, belief, excitement… This might be too simplistic but I’m going to put it down anyway… We have seen how these players performed under other managers… the struggles and lack of form… It shows how exceptional Unai is… that he could elevate them so highly so quickly… So again, I repeat the point… If Unai can bring in players that HE chooses and HE rates, that are likely better than what we have, then we can do even better, he can do even better… We‘ve already brought in three players that fit that criteria, and Moreno last season… I just feel any further additions will leave us in a stronger position and capable of achieving more… But I am also happy with where we are at… If Unai can offload the players that he does not particularly value/rate, he can bring in more players that he does… Dunno if I’m making sense or just rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Like it...thats me. Why is it that you think that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 I may be way off here....but I get the impression UE wants a bigger squad, but not too big to manage. He still wants that "Family" feel to it. What I mean is, he seems like a manager, who is constantly having meetings and educating players....in doing that, he wants them ALL involved, and a part of things. He doesn't strike me as a person happy to be embroiled in sulky, moody players, stinking the place out....he is on a mission, and hasn't got time for it...he's no social worker, but has got time for his players welfare and wellbeing. I think Dean was like that, didn't strike me, particularly liked confrontation, and wanted to keep his small squad happy. No bad thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I think… I have a lot more faith in the manager than the players… That’s what gives me the most faith, belief, excitement… This might be too simplistic but I’m going to put it down anyway… We have seen how these players performed under other managers… the struggles and lack of form… It shows how exceptional Unai is… that he could elevate them so highly so quickly… So again, I repeat the point… If Unai can bring in players that HE chooses and HE rates, that are likely better than what we have, then we can do even better, he can do even better… We‘ve already brought in three players that fit that criteria, and Moreno last season… I just feel any further additions will leave us in a stronger position and capable of achieving more… But I am also happy with where we are at… If Unai can offload the players that he does not particularly value/rate, he can bring in more players that he does… Dunno if I’m making sense or just rambling Complete sense....and how can i disagree...I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I may be way off here....but I get the impression UE wants a bigger squad, but not too big to manage. He still wants that "Family" feel to it. You're quoting Konsa describing the team under Emery as a "small family". I don't see Emery wanting massive squad and seeing players covering other roles like Konsa at RB even though he's not a "specialist right back" like Cash as I've seen quoted on here even though Cash was an RM a season before we signed him after he got converted to RB at Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Why is it that you think that? not sure, what you mean? I was doing a self analysis.....Quite often, I am being Devils Advocate, to stimulate debate, not to be argumentative....but sometimes thats difficult, with the absence of expression or body Language, which some of us old 'uns rely on. I think the younger posters are more eloquent at using social media, to avoid confusion of dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, TRO said: I may be way off here....but I get the impression UE wants a bigger squad, but not too big to manage. He still wants that "Family" feel to it. What I mean is, he seems like a manager, who is constantly having meetings and educating players....in doing that, he wants them ALL involved, and a part of things. He doesn't strike me as a person happy to be embroiled in sulky, moody players, stinking the place out....he is on a mission, and hasn't got time for it...he's no social worker, but has got time for his players welfare and wellbeing. I think Dean was like that, didn't strike me, particularly liked confrontation, and wanted to keep his small squad happy. No bad thing. Totally, he’s almost literally said the same thing. He wants a family group with all players “buying in”. They’re all being educated… I loved his line on “players don’t think WHY? They just go out and act… I want them to realise and learn WHY they are doing what they do and WHY they are receiving specific instructions… He’s only going to target players that fit in, buy in and can make an impact, a discussion or meeting with such an individual will help establish that… rather than making judgements from afar… Even last season, Bailey was commenting on how positive the atmosphere was, how everyone was on board and players weren’t complaining or upset about being on the bench because they still felt involved and knew they were being brought on either the intention of impacting the game and making a difference… I think at least some of the players felt that they were moving from hell (SG) to heaven (UE) In his latest presser, I think he said that the target was a quality 25 man squad with 2 good players in each position… he also said that they were very much open to more business and are monitoring the market… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Socratic method was to get the ball to Zico asap, right? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, TRO said: Complete sense....and how can i disagree...I concur. I like it when we get along But I’m happy to debate calmly and look at things differently… it’s what brings greater value to interactions and highlights points that may have been missed or overlooked… Much more preferable to an argument… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Mazrim said: Socratic method was to get the ball to Zico asap, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: You're quoting Konsa describing the team under Emery as a "small family". I don't see Emery wanting massive squad and seeing players covering other roles like Konsa at RB even though he's not a "specialist right back" like Cash as I've seen quoted on here even though Cash was an RM a season before we signed him after he got converted to RB at Forest I wasn't aware Konsa said that....However, like MON.( not comparing carte blanche by the way) I think UE is comfortable with players, playing in differernt roles at times.....It enhances the way you then interact with other players amd have more empathy with their challenges. as an example.....When I was an apprentice, I worked in every department in the organisation, before settling on a specific role...This gave me an insight to all the challenges and improved my communication with them.....Football in principle has similar traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, TRO said: not sure, what you mean? I was doing a self analysis.....Quite often, I am being Devils Advocate, to stimulate debate, not to be argumentative....but sometimes thats difficult, with the absence of expression or body Language, which some of us old 'uns rely on. I think the younger posters are more eloquent at using social media, to avoid confusion of dialogue. It's a Socratic method joke. Asking a question as a response 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Totally, he’s almost literally said the same thing. He wants a family group with all players “buying in”. They’re all being educated… I loved his line on “players don’t think WHY? They just go out and act… I want them to realise and learn WHY they are doing what they do and WHY they are receiving specific instructions… He’s only going to target players that fit in, buy in and can make an impact, a discussion or meeting with such an individual will help establish that… rather than making judgements from afar… Even last season, Bailey was commenting on how positive the atmosphere was, how everyone was on board and players weren’t complaining or upset about being on the bench because they still felt involved and knew they were being brought on either the intention of impacting the game and making a difference… I think at least some of the players felt that they were moving from hell (SG) to heaven (UE) In his latest presser, I think he said that the target was a quality 25 man squad with 2 good players in each position… he also said that they were very much open to more business and are monitoring the market… blimey..you're on form..enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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