Getting crowded out on the wings

[danceoftheshamen]

Not sure if it's an issue as such but from what i have been watching recently from Villa we seem to be struggling to retain possession a bit too much in the opposition half of the pitch. We appear to be struggling to dominate games like we were earlier in the season and for me it's clear teams have rumbled our style and we do not have those games when we were posing teams all sorts of problems and often scoring/winning by bigger margins than we have been of late.

We seem to be grinding out backs to the wall 1-0 wins rather than those 3-0 wins which have evaporated somewhat.

Arsenal highlighted this perfectly. We hammered them 3-0 not long ago at the Emirates and yet scrapped a defensive 1-0 on Saturday at VP. West Ham similarly we dominated and should have beaten down at their place and yet were poor / nullified at VP.

We are still getting a few good chances to score in most games but for me our main threats Grealish / Traore / Barkley are being swarmed by teams now severely restricting our potency by starving us of the ball in their half and of course this means we are seeing backs to the wall defending as we keep surrendering possession resulting in too much possession for the opposition. We win if they waste that possession as per Arsenal on Sat & Southampton the other week. As often as not though these teams won't waste it and unless we find a new way to adapt I can only see really mixed results upcoming.

So what do we do to adapt? Surely? if teams are getting out in numbers early to the wide area's there must be an opportunity to exploit the space they leave somehow but we don't seem to be doing that at present and are not retaining the ball enough in the opposition half for me.

Any idea's

 

 

[Teale's 'tache]

I think there's a few things going on here, firstly teams have adapted to how we play. Last season we didn't have much of a counter attack, we lacked a bit of pace and didn't keep enough bodies up the pitch for it, this season from the start we had a much more effective counter attack and had great joy with it, so it's no surprise teams are more wary of us now. We also lacked much a of a press last year, and again this season we have a decent and organised press and have been able to win the ball a bit further up the pitch at times. These things combined mean teams are less likely to over commit against us and are much more wary on the ball in their own half than they were at the start of the season.

Secondly, the way we play we are generally going to turn over the ball quite a bit, we want to take risks and be direct, those risks won't always pay off and being direct isn't always the best option in terms of retaining possession. I think this coupled with a drop in form of a few players has contributed somewhat. I'm not overly concerned with losing the ball in the opposition half if we are counter attacking or the team is in a decent shape, it's losing it in our own half or when players are out of position that is more worrying in my mind.

I wouldn't want us to change the way we play, I love that we are direct, that we take risks, that we are entertaining to watch and effective with it. We just have to be careful sometimes, there are times when it's okay to lose it and times when it is not, it's something that comes with experience and as we have a youngish side it's not too much of a surprise that it happens sometimes.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

57 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Not sure if it's an issue as such but from what i have been watching recently from Villa we seem to be struggling to retain possession a bit too much in the opposition half of the pitch. We appear to be struggling to dominate games like we were earlier in the season and for me it's clear teams have rumbled our style and we do not have those games when we were posing teams all sorts of problems and often scoring/winning by bigger margins than we have been of late.

We seem to be grinding out backs to the wall 1-0 wins rather than those 3-0 wins which have evaporated somewhat.

Arsenal highlighted this perfectly. We hammered them 3-0 not long ago at the Emirates and yet scrapped a defensive 1-0 on Saturday at VP. West Ham similarly we dominated and should have beaten down at their place and yet were poor / nullified at VP.

We are still getting a few good chances to score in most games but for me our main threats Grealish / Traore / Barkley are being swarmed by teams now severely restricting our potency by starving us of the ball in their half and of course this means we are seeing backs to the wall defending as we keep surrendering possession resulting in too much possession for the opposition. We win if they waste that possession as per Arsenal on Sat & Southampton the other week. As often as not though these teams won't waste it and unless we find a new way to adapt I can only see really mixed results upcoming.

So what do we do to adapt? Surely? if teams are getting out in numbers early to the wide area's there must be an opportunity to exploit the space they leave somehow but we don't seem to be doing that at present and are not retaining the ball enough in the opposition half for me.

Any idea's

 

 

The issue could be the 6 games in 18 days with no training for 2 weeks prior to this. It’s literally been a game, a day recover, a day to prepare and then another game. 

Hopefully a weeks proper training and recovery should show an improvement to this issue against Brighton.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[sharkyvilla]

Jack and Traore haven't swapped wings at all in the last few games so we do seem a bit more rigid in our movement.  Whether that's because Barkley just stays central as he isn't that mobile, if for example Jack was in the number 10 role he would be roaming round and the wingers would cut inside and run into spaces he creates.  It could just be we have taken a more pragmatic route on a game-by-game basis since the covid break out of necessity.  We showed against Arsenal we still have the ability to go back to the defensive set up that kept us up after the lockdown if needs be, which is a good thing.

[MotoMkali]

7 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Not sure if it's an issue as such but from what i have been watching recently from Villa we seem to be struggling to retain possession a bit too much in the opposition half of the pitch. We appear to be struggling to dominate games like we were earlier in the season and for me it's clear teams have rumbled our style and we do not have those games when we were posing teams all sorts of problems and often scoring/winning by bigger margins than we have been of late.

We seem to be grinding out backs to the wall 1-0 wins rather than those 3-0 wins which have evaporated somewhat.

Arsenal highlighted this perfectly. We hammered them 3-0 not long ago at the Emirates and yet scrapped a defensive 1-0 on Saturday at VP. West Ham similarly we dominated and should have beaten down at their place and yet were poor / nullified at VP.

We are still getting a few good chances to score in most games but for me our main threats Grealish / Traore / Barkley are being swarmed by teams now severely restricting our potency by starving us of the ball in their half and of course this means we are seeing backs to the wall defending as we keep surrendering possession resulting in too much possession for the opposition. We win if they waste that possession as per Arsenal on Sat & Southampton the other week. As often as not though these teams won't waste it and unless we find a new way to adapt I can only see really mixed results upcoming.

So what do we do to adapt? Surely? if teams are getting out in numbers early to the wide area's there must be an opportunity to exploit the space they leave somehow but we don't seem to be doing that at present and are not retaining the ball enough in the opposition half for me.

Any idea's

 

 

Grealish in the middle. He can help on each side of the pitch. They can't double up on him with wingers and full backs because he is central but a CM can't follow him all over without creating a lot of space in the middle for us to utilise. 

[Danny_Villaman84]

I notice something odd, might I am wrong with this... sorry if I type long post and it is my point of view might help you reason. would be nice help out my grammar it to become worth to read :S

Get Crowded in Wing is best and more effective and easy way compare to that go through the centre, which required Fast 1-2-1 pass, and more quick running to space to get an attack, even they sit back, which Man City good at this, we can do it if we play with pace will work well as we good pass and pace, can play 1-2-1, we play counter-attack and possession to Centre to wide or Side to Side Possession (Smith Ball) which we would be nice add centre to centre or Side to Centre Channel like man city often. Barkley and Grealish can do it but we is miss out left foot dribble and killer pass specialist, if we find to sign these roles - Ollise or Brook? as I know on the good day McGinn can do it, Sanson, Luiz both can do this well as they are really good passer player, and can controller in under pressure and protect the ball well so might worth to try. 

Pre-Injury Barkley - (Extra-man in wide crowned)
They work close each other to free up Grealish 1 vs 1 rather 1 vs 2, it makes Grealish easy deal with 1-vs-1 use 1-2-1 or pushes defender to dig in or back up as don't want dive and got foul so it gives Grealish free space stroll ball for space and set up to attack more often. - it is good for Barkley and Grealish to repeat bring a ball into box often, and create a key chance more. Defend opponent to force to back up and not worth risk to 1vs2 grealish, as Barkley near there and ready to do what Grealish do all of the time... I enjoy watching this and don't know why they stop do this.

The good thing about this Grealish is not only as he engaged 1-vs-1, so Targett often more space to receive a pass and add yards to attack which reason Targett more easy attack as well, if Opponent winger didn't track back and help out so Opponent, so we can better space to chance to goal.

Post-Injury Barkley - (no extra man in crowned)
They are more far away from each other.

The Opponent team change plan to pile 2-vs-1 On Grealish often, I see it is good positive compare as  1-vs-1, Grealish is aware and know 2 on me that 1 player must be free around and drag them away to make space open to pass any players to attack space that why Barkley or McGinn is waiting for him to give so more open chance to goal that 1-vs-1.

The only Problem it is can make Grealish quiet games as 1-vs-2 so it gives more time Opponent prepared to defend and organise backline that why West Ham find the easy deal with him with 2 strong and pace defender, good reader and good tackle to win the ball without foul him...

so his Alter option, he can dribble into the box in wing 1-vs-2 so past them become 9 vs 11 (feel like adding extra 2 or 3 men to attack in the box) rather 10vs11,

Targett difficult to overlap due limit to space by 2-vs-1 to cut space to pass the ball to overlap zone, if he, Targett got a ball from Grealish magic pass, Targett become 9 vs 11 bring a ball into box Defend will become dismayed and disorganise to give a chance better make a goal. downhill It is made Grealish more work hard and waits for the right time and right running from Targett, and wait for another player to the gap to pass, and wait for dribble past them, can stress plus lost focus repeat all the match.

Grealish in ACM roles -
Central Attack Midfield which I like him to do free roam so DM or Centre Midfield, or Defender follow him to free space to attack which pass to or get ball move play to Traore or El-Ghazi, as often Grealish deal 1-vs-3 or 4 to cut off his dribble space and pass.. Barkley better than him as this role the only problem with Barkley is not tracking back and not enough pace to energies, that why Ramsey ideal yet Barkley have lethal long shot and killer pass, dribble ability to break the wall, more effective if he tag-team with Grealish all the time. Ramsey is young and lots to learn which good mentor by Barkley will make Ramsey a better player with experience in future.

The only advantage to this is, Grealish will help our winger free to attack better as they will focus on Grealish to forget about wingers, and could pull them like a magnet to make 3 or 4 men vs grealish so if we success to other players via pass or dribble will more dangerous that grealish in a winger. so Grealish will quiet yet but would work well to get the win.

that why Reason I prefer him Grealish on the wing as more effective compare to El-Ghazi and Tregezuet as they not good beat full-back as Grealish or Traore did in winger, I would happily see him ACM one condition is -  If we got better Attacker like Right foot Traore will helpfully Grealish to double-pivot to both side in Centre which I would play him more in ACM roles..  to play Plan B it is ideal for a counter-attack if we sit too deep all of the time.

My Question is; Smith tell Barkley more Central and Second Striker Roles? to help Grealish to make more 2-vs-1 hope to chance become 9vs11 rather 10vs11 

Second part:- Watkins Interchange with Traore: - (This will help less Crowned in wide) 
They did it some part of match it is This is very smart plan Plan B we need to find Left winger (or both feet winger/forward) who can play centre forward as well so Watkin can swap with Traore and New Winger like Racisha or other players if we find one will much better option El-Ghazi and Tregezant.

as Rashica can play this type it is might reason Smith want to sign him to play this role as Brentford style - Smith uses Maupay as Centre Forward, Watkins and Benrahma in Wingers to interchanging all 3 that why they were the best attacker with Romaine Sawyers as Creative Midfield in Centre Midfield.

Winger Interchange Watkins will more threat with Grealish in Deep Centre Midfield (or push advanced "Attack" Midfield) will more easy as like "Quarterback Roles" or "Half-fly roles" and easy tactical change plan A and B, C. that will help us to got back up to plan to attack the opponent with more playbook so easy to pick weakness each game with same style and players will help rather single dimension to attack.

It is more effective if the counter-attack or direct possession football toward the goal in quick and confused defender to pull centre half to followed Watkin false 9 roles to wide so winger can go in the centre act as striker exploit space easy, with overlap it is would more space free. 

Brook and Ollise Is will very good back up to Traore, also plan C 

Plan C:- (Vertical Tiki-Toko style) - Man City

if we find left foot Grealish type or Barkley Type - That why I point to Ollise or Brook good plan C, - as they who the player can operate Right winger will able plan A and C with use same players style,

so this is optional become "Crowned at Centre, not at wide"  which good alter to attack via centre so meant Cash or Targett can creep become an extra winger to challenge full-back to busy them to drag out of the place and make sure opponent winger double man on them so counter-attack us will less effective (one of them as a winger - for ie Cash and one of them - for ie Targett become 3 man centre half to add protection counter-attack - visa-vice) so pinball fast possession to the centre will more easily make them push to deep. so we can play Plan A or C continues until full-time whistle if it is failed so we can sub to get Plan B or start with Plan B so can switch to A/C,

if they try decide stay push us deep so we can more chance to get plenty of space to attack into their box and their half.

problem and dangerous risk in Plan A and C is their counter-attack as we did to Liverpool so they could do the same to us.

they decide to play deep so Watkin will bully them or hold them to give 3 attacks midfield 1-2-1 to get in the box to a goal if they do park the bus so 4 attackers with good finisher will score or chance get handball in the box, and bang them go on go on.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Danny_Villaman84
forget add point about Grealish in ACM.

[Mjvilla]

On 09/02/2021 at 12:45, danceoftheshamen said:

Not sure if it's an issue as such but from what i have been watching recently from Villa we seem to be struggling to retain possession a bit too much in the opposition half of the pitch. We appear to be struggling to dominate games like we were earlier in the season and for me it's clear teams have rumbled our style and we do not have those games when we were posing teams all sorts of problems and often scoring/winning by bigger margins than we have been of late.

We seem to be grinding out backs to the wall 1-0 wins rather than those 3-0 wins which have evaporated somewhat.

Arsenal highlighted this perfectly. We hammered them 3-0 not long ago at the Emirates and yet scrapped a defensive 1-0 on Saturday at VP. West Ham similarly we dominated and should have beaten down at their place and yet were poor / nullified at VP.

We are still getting a few good chances to score in most games but for me our main threats Grealish / Traore / Barkley are being swarmed by teams now severely restricting our potency by starving us of the ball in their half and of course this means we are seeing backs to the wall defending as we keep surrendering possession resulting in too much possession for the opposition. We win if they waste that possession as per Arsenal on Sat & Southampton the other week. As often as not though these teams won't waste it and unless we find a new way to adapt I can only see really mixed results upcoming.

So what do we do to adapt? Surely? if teams are getting out in numbers early to the wide area's there must be an opportunity to exploit the space they leave somehow but we don't seem to be doing that at present and are not retaining the ball enough in the opposition half for me.

Any idea's

 

 

Arsenal are a different beast from the side we stuffed 3-0. They have become more organised and their form was good. It may have been a defensive performance (relatively) but we still created 3/4 much better chances than they did.

West ham had won 6/7 and were clearly full of confidence. We had a bad day at the office.

Southampton we lost earlier in the season and won this time round so think it's safe to say we learnt some lessons there, even if we did ride our luck. 

Before that, we were fantastic at Burnley and somehow lost and had a very comfortable victory against Newcastle which we should've won by more. 

Before that, Chelsea away, man utd away, man city away. We did well in all 3 despite results. 

I don't think there's much in this, personally. Brighton away will be another challenge for certain and may make your point more valid, we shall see.

[danceoftheshamen]

There we go again, 

having watched that tripe tonight it is actually caused by our inability to play basic passes to our own players in space. Embarrassing number of times the ball was given straight back to Brighton the players by Grealish, Traore, Barkley, McGinn & a couple of others tonight. 
 

It’s getting worse too.. 

started after COVID break and now we are doing it more often as each game passes. Needs to stop fast! 

[villanmac]

We play too much phone box football at times. 3 players standing next to each passing 5 yards and then we get boxed it as a result. It’s a symptom of our midfield being so immobile though, it’s hard to find the likes of Barkley and Traore in space because they are static.

[VillaJ100]

On 14/02/2021 at 12:17, villanmac said:

We play too much phone box football at times. 3 players standing next to each passing 5 yards and then we get boxed it as a result. It’s a symptom of our midfield being so immobile though, it’s hard to find the likes of Barkley and Traore in space because they are static. 

Honestly I feel mobility has been our big problem for donkeys years even all the way back to o Neill days