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Gringo
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Are the govt honour bound to offer the people a vote on the new EU treaty  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Are the govt honour bound to offer the people a vote on the new EU treaty

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      14


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A topic that has been touched on in a lot of other posts, but never really discussed in itself.

Gordo has recently signed up to the new EU treaty, that is an agreement designed to cover elements that would have been implemented under the previously proposed EU constitution.

In their party manifesto, Labour promised a referendum on any EU constitution, but when the said agreement was dropped following NO votes in France and the Netherlands, this promise was considered expired.

People who want a referendum are saying that this new treaty is the same constitution in all but name, whilst those who believe a referendum is not required say that this is a new agreement and the govt have secured certain exemptions that secure the UK's right to determine their own laws under their own parliament.

Not a discussion on whether the proposed treaty/constitution is a good one or a bad one, but on the main issue surrounding this - whether or not the people have been promised a referendum or not, and whether that promise still stands.

EU treaty 'same as constitution'

I believe that promise still stands and the people have been promised a vote.

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I think we should have a vote on having a vote ..........

No point, this would be setting a very dangerous and unnecessary precedent. The call is more for political gain than to supposedly be for the best of the people

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I think we should have a vote on having a vote ..........

No point, this would be setting a very dangerous and unnecessary precedent. The call is more for political gain than to supposedly be for the best of the people

Quelle Surprise :wink:

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Not a big fan of referendums personally. Whether Labour have broken a promise or not, I don't know. It's not my Labour party anyway, and I'm starting not to care whether or not they get reelected, so all I care about is further European integration and the new treaty ensures that.

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Not at all Nick - I think once you go down the path of referendums for this and that - and considering that the UK does not have a constitution - then you are in serious danger of diminishing the power of an elected government.

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Not at all Nick - I think once you go down the path of referendums for this and that - and considering that the UK does not have a constitution - then you are in serious danger of diminishing the power of an elected government.

thats a call for more referenda if ever I saw one

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Not a big fan of referendums personally. Whether Labour have broken a promise or not, I don't know. It's not my Labour party anyway, and I'm starting not to care whether or not they get reelected, so all I care about is further European integration and the new treaty ensures that.
Then assuming you voted no, we will have to disregard your vote as you obviously ignored the question in hand and voted on some other topic.

Not at all Nick - I think once you go down the path of referendums for this and that - and considering that the UK does not have a constitution - then you are in serious danger of diminishing the power of an elected government.

A referendum promised by a govt to win an election. By a bluelabour govt. Surely they should honour their promises -especially manifesto promises, not backtrack on whether they think referendums are a good idea or not, just because they are in danger of losin or not. Again, your vote should be discounted as you are voting (as per Michelsen) on whether you think referendums are a good idea or not, and not the question in hand, which if I may remind you is "Are the govt honour bound to offer the people a vote on the new EU treaty".

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Would the Conservatives actively support a NO vote? If so no point in wasting money on a referendum when an election will be called next year.

What have new labour got to do with this? Its a referendum, the peoples voice isn't divided along party lines

Anyway, whats all this bollocks about diminishing the power of the elected government? Surely if the referendum goes the way the government campaigns for it does the exact opposite, it strengthens its power on the particular subject

It only weakens the government if the governments ideas are rejected (and I suspect you think thats what would happen here)

The way I see it is like this, we had a referendum when we went into the EEC in the first place, to take this step is such a major one, the same respect should be given to the will of the people.

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Would the Conservatives actively support a NO vote? If so no point in wasting money on a referendum when an election will be called next year.

What have new labour got to do with this? Its a referendum, the peoples voice isn't divided along party lines

Anyway, whats all this bollocks about diminishing the power of the elected government? Surely if the referendum goes the way the government campaigns for it does the exact opposite, it strengthens its power on the particular subject

It only weakens the government if the governments ideas are rejected (and I suspect you think thats what would happen here)

The way I see it is like this, we had a referendum when we went into the EEC in the first place, to take this step is such a major one, the same respect should be given to the will of the people.

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Won't be no election til 2010 billy boy
your guessing though aren't ya
no more than your good self, but the markets are on my side.

According to the sage that is betfair, probability of an election in 2008, approx 8%, probability of an election in 2010, approx 33%.

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Not a big fan of referendums personally. Whether Labour have broken a promise or not, I don't know. It's not my Labour party anyway, and I'm starting not to care whether or not they get reelected, so all I care about is further European integration and the new treaty ensures that.
Then assuming you voted no, we will have to disregard your vote as you obviously ignored the question in hand and voted on some other topic.

Fair enough, I suppose, but I don't know if they're honour bound, tbh. A treaty, in the sheer nature of the word, is different from a constitution. I don't really know enough about it to give a fair answer. I'm actually going to a debate about the new treaty at Uni tomorrow, so we'll see then. I'll report back.

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.........

A referendum promised by a govt to win an election. By a bluelabour govt. Surely they should honour their promises -especially manifesto promises, not backtrack on whether they think referendums are a good idea or not, just because they are in danger of losin or not. Again, your vote should be discounted as you are voting (as per Michelsen) on whether you think referendums are a good idea or not, and not the question in hand, which if I may remind you is "Are the govt honour bound to offer the people a vote on the new EU treaty".

Wrong again Gringo - the referendum that was talked about in the last manifesto was not for what is being talked about here.

What a shame that your obsession with anything to try and discredit the government clouds your thought process.

The UK has only ever had one national referendum, it does not need another.

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....

The way I see it is like this, we had a referendum when we went into the EEC in the first place, to take this step is such a major one, the same respect should be given to the will of the people.

No we had One referendum back in 1975 that asked if we should stay in the Common Market

Turnout 64.5%

Where do you stop, each time there is a tax amendment do we have a referendum, a change in the law on this or that? What is the point of a government?

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