Referendum

[bickster]

Tony's word doesn't count, the british public in general didn't vote for him, they voted for their local candidate. You don't vote for Prime Ministers apparently, it never enters your thinking at all

:-) - or you vote for a Tory

Its the same laughable stuff, shame that the real issue about constitution and how a country is run is missed.

Still pop - sorry political - idol mentality is what its all about

really not sure what you are on about with all this pop idol stuff, well I am but I'm not sure why you keep mentioning it whilst quoting me

[drat01]

Fairly obvious because from your and Gringo's comments and the references to Blair you see it more as a personality battle than one on policy.

[Gringo]

Have a read of the manifesto Gringo, Im sure you have a copy and lets debate on what was said in there.

The new Constitutional Treaty ensures the new Europe can work effectively,

and that Britain keeps control of key national interests like foreign policy,

taxation, social security and defence.The Treaty sets out what the

EU can do and what it cannot. It strengthens the voice of national parliaments

and governments in EU affairs. It is a good treaty for Britain

and for the new Europe.We will put it to the British people in a referendum

and campaign whole-heartedly for a ‘Yes’ vote to keep Britain

a leading nation in Europe.

I think most have answered your loaded question so why you keep asking it? or is it again trying to score a political point?

Not a loaded question, a pointed question, ie to try and ignore whether the EU is good or bad, whether the treaty/constitution is good or bad, whether referendums are good or bad, but reflecting the question that is going to the most prominent and continually asked for the next 18 months.

[terrytini]

It's bad enough letting people vote in elections without giving them even more say.

We really would be in the madhouse if we go down that road. Decisions dominated even more by the Newspaper Publisher with the biggest readership.

[drat01]

Simple question is this about the EU treaty?

[Gringo]

and Gringo your obsession with Blair had to sneak out in the end

To have a debate about a promise made by blair at PMQs without referring to the promise made by blair at PMQs would be a little silly really - again POST not POSTER please.

[drat01]

and Gringo your obsession with Blair had to sneak out in the end

To have a debate about a promise made by blair at PMQs without referring to the promise made by blair at PMQs would be a little silly really - again POST not POSTER please.

No because your obsession with Blair and bringing him to the discussion is fairly obvious for all to see. If you dont want the accusation ......

The manifesto commitment is NOT one made on what is being talked about now.

So AGAIN in answer to your question how can the Government be honour bound on something that wasn't even discussed at the time of the last election

[peterms]

It's bad enough letting people vote in elections without giving them even more say.

We really would be in the madhouse if we go down that road. Decisions dominated even more by the Newspaper Publisher with the biggest readership.

One man, one vote.

Uncle Rupert, he that man.

[Gringo]

So to get past the obstinance, lets talk about the manifesto then, which is what the original question was about.

If they promised a referendum on the constitutional treaty, and the constitutional treaty was dropped and replaced with a treaty that is 99% the same as the prementioned constitutional treaty, are they not bound by the same promise?

[Gringo]

One man, one vote.

Uncle Rupert, he that man.

[drat01]

So to get past the obstinance, lets talk about the manifesto then, which is what the original question was about.

If they promised a referendum on the constitutional treaty, and the constitutional treaty was dropped and replaced with a treaty that is 99% the same as the prementioned constitutional treaty, are they not bound by the same promise?

No - because you are making the assumption that two are the same, which they are not.

Great quote on various sites about the DNA of Mice and Men being so alike but would you call them the same?

Interesting you say it is 99% the same but where do you get that figure from?

[nrogers]

Question to the Daily Mail comments.... is the Daily Mail the only paper in the country, yes they are probably against Europe and the constitution, but what about the Gauniad and other leftie papers, that do the exactly the same, and never find a fault with this type of thing, all papers have an agenda, all argue with bias on what they want to promote... all as bad as each other!

[drat01]

Now a better question - Should the UK remain part of the EU?

[nrogers]

Referendum or not, this Government will do what it likes anyway!!!

Luckily this will be their last term for a good long while!

[nrogers]

Now a better question - Should the UK remain part of the EU?

Of course it should, but it shouldn't be held to ransom, and we should have the power of Veto on Euro Policy that doesn't fairly represent the UK!

[Gringo]

So to get past the obstinance, lets talk about the manifesto then, which is what the original question was about.

If they promised a referendum on the constitutional treaty, and the constitutional treaty was dropped and replaced with a treaty that is 99% the same as the prementioned constitutional treaty, are they not bound by the same promise?

No - because you are making the assumption that two are the same, which they are not.

Great quote on various sites about the DNA of Mice and Men being so alike but would you call them the same?

Interesting you say it is 99% the same but where do you get that figure from?

But the differences highlighted that I have read about are no flag (there already is one), no EU anthem, no EU foreign minister, but instead a EU foreign office. When the bloke who drew up the original constitutional treaty says the new treaty is 99% the same, would you not consider the two documents to have the same impacts?

Again, the question is being asked because it is the one that will dominate for the next year, the one that gordo is continually going to be attacked on, and his achilles heel. Of mice and men, very apt.

[bickster]

Now a better question - Should the UK remain part of the EU?

Different topic for that one methinks

[drat01]

Now a better question - Should the UK remain part of the EU?

Of course it should, but it shouldn't be held to ransom, and we should have the power of Veto on Euro Policy that doesn't fairly represent the UK!

So you would vote Yes on this new part then Nick

[nrogers]

Now a better question - Should the UK remain part of the EU?

Of course it should, but it shouldn't be held to ransom, and we should have the power of Veto on Euro Policy that doesn't fairly represent the UK!

So you would vote Yes on this new part then Nick

Well no, not until I have read the entire document... this is nothing to do with staying part of the EU and Trade Agreements... and where does it say that if you don't sign up to this, you can't be part of the EU Trade Alliance?

[Condimentalist]

It doesn't say that Nick, but the more compliant we are with these sorts of agreements, the more likely we are to be able to affect the decision making process in Brussels. This treaty is unlikely to actually have a huge effect on the UK, but being left behind in the EU is likely to, particularly if our economy doesn't put us in as strong a bargaining position as we are in now.