Gringo Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 But AWOL - sometimes you get the impression that even the govt don't think it's going to happen UK ID cards ready to go, no machines to read them After the government has spent months encouraging foreign residents in the UK to get their biometric identity cards, it now has to face the embarrassing situation of not being ready for them, reports The Times. The £4.7 billion scheme is designed to increase the security of Britain's borders by ensuring all foreign residents have a biometric identity card, and as thousands of cards are being issued it has come to fruition that there are no machines ready to read the information electronically stored on them. After a website company obtained the details through a Freedom of Information Request, the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) has confessed that police stations, border and immigration points and job centres are still waiting to have the chip readers installed. It is also unclear as to when these checkpoints would have their chip readers set up, and that it was part of the police stations' discretion as to whether they would invest in the technology. Are they saying they haven't actually budgeted for implementing the service side of this technology. Will it also be up to hospitals, uenployment offices. banks and shopping centres to buy their own machines in order to achieve the proposed benefits of cutting down on nhs tourism, illegal benefit claimants and id fraud? Only one fraud here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulTheVillan Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I don't mind having one, some people will be making a mint out of selling fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyVanParlour Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I'm just waiting for them to start lobbying for the chip under the skin idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 No, inc Mark of the Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Yes But no if I have to pay for it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Edit : - i might know something .... nobody get me drunk as i'll blab :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Blimey, ITK stuff is bad enough during the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 :-) I know and i so want to share it with you all so i can claim my ITK badge at the end ... maybe I'll bring the documents up to the game on Weds and leave them in the pub ... that way i won't get prosecuted as it seems it's an acceptable method nowadays :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 maybe I'll bring the documents up to the game on Weds and leave them in the pub I think you have to leave them in the train on the way. :winkold: p.s. Is it likely to make me smile, cry or laugh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 p.s. Is it likely to make me smile, cry or laugh? nice try :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 p.s. Is it likely to make me smile, cry or laugh? nice try :-) Had to really, as soon as you mentioned official secrets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 found this story from back in November on the BBC website ..did make me smile .. Officials have also tried to tackle the issue of how to record the addresses of homeless people and gypsies without a fixed address. Homeless people wanting ID cards may be able to give their home address as a bench, bus stop or park where they are often found. so if you sleep on a different park bench as your one is being painted by the council , do you have to tell the government of your change of address and where exactly is a homeless person going to get the money to pay for an ID card .... spare some change guv , I've got to get an ID card :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 DNA database keeps us safe DNA is a crucial investigative tool. Having read Sir Alec Jeffrey's view on the DNA database in this morning's Guardian there are many areas where I agree with him. It is an enormous privilege to be able to use DNA testing to prove or disprove that people have committed offences. In my unit, which deals with homicides and other serious crimes, we are always very conscious that when it comes to DNA we are dealing with two competing issues. Firstly, public concern about the use of the DNA database and secondly, the public's expectation that we will catch and arrest criminals. Within an investigation we have to balance these issues to ensure the steps we take are proportionate, necessary and legal. Jeffrey clearly has concerns about the abuse of the database, and I share his concerns, which is why we ensure we use the facility in an appropriate and proper way. There are many safeguards in place to prevent abuse. Quite rightly we have to disclose any evidence we have and it is then scrutinised by a court to ensure that our case is proved beyond all reasonable doubt. The strict rules about how we collect and use evidence keep us on our mettle and there are many checks and balances to ensure the investigative community is consistent in its approach. The evidence has to be match fit; it is rigorously scrutinised by the crown prosecution service, the prosecution and the defence. However, what critics of the database can't and shouldn't ignore is that a DNA database is an essential investigative tool. It enables us to catch criminals more quickly. DNA is corroborative rather than decisive. It gives us a starting point but it still takes a huge amount of work to establish the corroborative evidence that will actually make the case. The decision about whether to remove the DNA of those who are yet to be convicted of an offence will rightly be made by politicians. In the past the police have made the case to government for retaining these samples and they have agreed, but the EU case may change that. Obviously Jeffrey's knowledge and grasp of the scientific details surpasses mine, I'm just an investigator but the reality for me is the more people on the database, the more effective our investigation will be. With regards to Jeffrey's concerns about the "discrimination and stigmatisation of branches of society that are over-represented on the database". Disportionality within the database will not be prevented by removing those who don't have a conviction from it. We regularly scrutinise our interaction with the public and criminals to try to understand where and why disportionality occurs and whether the actions we take at the front line of policing are justifiable and fair. The database will continue to reflect those who are convicted for crimes, which for complex reasons remains disportionate. My experience of dealing with the families of the murdered, the secondary victims, is that they rightly have huge expectations that we will find and convict those responsible for their loved one's death using any tools at our disposal. Our use of DNA evidence is one of the reasons murder conviction rates in the UK are significantly higher than those in the rest of the world. It helps ensure good detection, high conviction rates and a relatively low incidence of murder. The principle of policing by consent is what makes the British police different to other police forces around the world. We are always accountable to the community for whom we provide a service. If the law compels us to remove the DNA of the unconvicted from the database then of course our job will become more difficult. The scale of the difference will take some time to see. Simon Foy is head of the Metropolitan Police's Homicide and Serious Crime Command, Specialist Crime Directorate Emphasis added is mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Police to destroy DNA profiles of 800,000 innocent people DNA profiles of almost a million innocent people are to be destroyed as part of a major overhaul of the police national database. They include people who have been arrested and never charged, and those taken to court but found not guilty. Civil rights groups gave a cautious welcome to the proposals - which will be announced by the home secretary, Jacqui Smith, this week - but said more needed to be done. An estimated 800,000 of the 5.1m DNA profiles on the database belong to people in England and Wales who have no criminal conviction. A Home Office consultation paper will also outline plans to delete all physical DNA samples on the database, including mouth swabs, hair and blood. The move follows widespread concerns that the samples could be shared with third parties. The campaign group Genewatch, which opposes the DNA database, has warned that health and drug companies want access to the samples to create profiles to predict who is genetically susceptible to different illnesses and diseases. There have also been fears the samples could one day be used for racial profiling or even to predict criminal behaviour. The proposal to scale back the database and destroy the samples comes after a landmark judgment by the European court of human rights last December that ruled the government was wrong to hold the DNA profiles - the genetic codes that identify individuals - of innocent people indefinitely. Yesterday Smith told the Observer that there were genuine concerns over the size and scope of the DNA database. "It is crucial that we do everything we can to keep the public safe from crime and bring offenders to justice," she said. "The DNA database plays a vital role in helping us do that. However, there has to be a balance between the need to protect the public and respecting their rights. Based on risks versus benefits, our view is that we can now destroy all samples." Legal experts said the government had little choice but to comply with the human rights court ruling. "This is not a privacy-friendly Home Office," said Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty. "Any developments in this area are because the Home Office has been dragged here by the European court of human rights." But the Home Office insists that in deciding to destroy all samples on the database it has gone much further than it was compelled to by the court's ruling. Last night privacy campaigners said the consultation must answer the crucial question of how long the police would be allowed to retain the DNA data of innocent people before being forced to delete them. There were also claims the proposals did not go far enough. "The DNA database is already too big," said Simon Davies, director of the campaign group Privacy International. "We would argue that the samples of anyone convicted of even minor offences should be removed." Despite mounting outrage over the use of the DNA database, the government insists that DNA can play an essential role in fighting crime. The Home Office says that between April 1998 and September 2008 there were more than 390,000 crimes with DNA matches. DNA has played an essential part in solving thousands of cases, including finding Mark Dixie guilty of the murder of Sally Ann Bowman, the 18-year-old model murdered close to her home in Croydon, south London, in 2005, and the conviction of Steve Wright for the murder of five prostitutes in Ipswich. It has also played a crucial role in proving innocence and overturning miscarriages of justice. Earlier this year DNA was a vital factor in proving the innocence of Sean Hodgson, who spent nearly 30 years in prison for the death of a young woman in 1979. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Pilots refuse to take part in national identity card trials Airline pilots are to become the first group to refuse to take part in the national identity scheme when compulsory trials start at Manchester and London City airports this autumn. The British Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa ), which represents more than 80% of commercial airline pilots, is to mount a legal challenge to Home Office plans to use "critical" airside workers as the first compulsory "guinea pigs" for the scheme. MPs are shortly to be asked to approve the powers to compel the pilots and other airside workers at the two airports to register for the national ID card scheme as part of their "pre-employment" checks. The £30 fee is to be waived as an incentive for them to sign up. The pilots' union has protested to ministers that the £18m scheme cannot be regarded as voluntary when they are being told they will not qualify for an "airside pass" without them: "ID cards will have absolutely no value as far as security is concerned. This is nothing other than coercion and promises that ID cards would be voluntary have been broken," Jim McAuslan, Balpa general secretary, has told ministers. "We will resist." These behind the scenes preparations and the recent signing of two 10-year contracts worth £650m to get the ID cards programme under way undermine recent speculation that the cabinet is considering axing the scheme as part of the general Whitehall spending squeeze. The speculation took off when a suggestion by David Blunkett, the former home secretary, that the ID card programme should be repackaged as a biometric passport scheme to reassure the public was misintepreted as him turning against the idea. But the details of the two contracts awarded in the last few weeks show just how far the ID cards scheme has become embedded in the introduction of "biometric" passports. For 80% of British citizens their identity card will be their passport. The Home Office describes the two contracts as "bringing the largescale deployment of ID cards a step closer". The first contract, worth £385m and awarded to a US computer company, CSC, will cover processing applications for passports and ID cards and dealing with any subsequent changes in personal details . The second contract, awarded to IBM, and worth £265m, is to build and run the database that will store the digital fingerprints and facial images for the ID scheme and the new generation of passports. The decision to combine what the Home Office calls the core elements of the ID cards programme and the modernisation of the passports means it will be difficult for any incoming government after the general election to cancel the ID scheme separately. Two further contracts will be awarded this year for the design and production of identity cards and the next generation of passports to be introduced from 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 seems they still don't get it ... but it seems that we are back on ID cards will prevent terrorism lark again ? please explain how Ms Smith "ID cards will deliver real benefits to everyone, including increased protection against criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorists." She added: "Our next steps will be for other cities to follow Manchester's lead before full national coverage from 2012. full article from new.sky.com Chemists and post offices could act as enrolment centres for the Government's controversial ID card scheme. Anyone who wants an identity card or biometric passport should be able to go to their local post office or pharmacy to have their fingerprints read and stored along with a face scan, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said. The card will cost £30 and the shops will charge another £30 to collect the data, which will be stored on a Government database. Greater Manchester has been chosen as the launch area for the £5bn scheme with thousands of cards likely to be printed from this autumn. Anyone who wants a card can sign up for information alerts at direct.gov.uk. Ms Smith was meeting Post Office managers and pharmacy trade groups today to discuss the plans. "The companies interested in working with us to deliver the service will play a key role in ensuring the public can apply for an ID card or passport simply and easily," she said. "While private companies will clearly benefit from the increased footfall from offering this service, their customers will benefit from being able to quickly provide their biometrics while they are out doing the shopping. "With an identity card, people will be able to prove their identity quickly and conveniently while helping to protect themselves against identity fraud. "ID cards will deliver real benefits to everyone, including increased protection against criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorists." She added: "Our next steps will be for other cities to follow Manchester's lead before full national coverage from 2012. "This phased approach will ensure that card coverage occurs hand in hand with the development of supporting technology such as chip and pin readers." But shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling called for the scheme to be scrapped. He said: "The Government is split down the middle on ID cards but it looks as if Jacqui Smith is carrying on regardless. "Piloting the scheme in one city is nonsensical and will only serve as a tax on the people of Manchester. They should abandon this farce and scrap the whole scheme." btw snowy , this is some of the" stuff" i referred to in a previous post ..sadly there is still more to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 btw snowy , this is some of the" stuff" i referred to in a previous post ..sadly there is still more to come Ah. By more to come do you mean other 'pilot' schemes or something else? And are you surprised that they are still ploughing ahead? How much lobbying do you think there will have been and will be in future from those outfits seeking to screw more and more cash out of the Treasury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahamaad Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Can someone answer a question for me. If the conservatives come to power next year, and they have stated they will scrap the ID card scheme - do you think they can actually do that if the present government has committed to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted May 6, 2009 Administrator Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 6, 2009 Moderator Share Posted May 6, 2009 Its not a question of can they, its a question of will they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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