National ID cards - good idea?

[snowychap]

thing is i'm sure Drat posted (was it on this topic or another one ?) that he was finger printed the other week when he came into the UK and did a domestic transfer

so if it wasn't going live until Thursday ..wsa Drat duped by a fingerprint scam artist who is now committing untold crime and leaving Drats finger prints at every crime scene :-)

I think he volunteered himself for it, didn't he?

Though how secure his fingerprint is, I don't know.

[snowychap]

Well if they're having this many problems with the baggage, I wouldn't trust them to look after fingerprint data properly.

Check-in suspended at £4.3bn T5

All luggage check-in has been suspended at Heathrow's new £4.3bn Terminal 5, after cancelled flights and baggage delays blighted its opening day.

British Airways, which has sole use of the terminal, cancelled 34 flights due to "teething problems" and was later forced to stop luggage check-in.

Technical difficulties have also led to baggage delays of up to four hours.

BA blamed the glitches on problems with "staff familiarisation", which had a knock-on effect on bags and flights.

In a day of problems at the new terminal, airport operator BAA said a baggage belt had stopped working, meaning a halt to check-in for passengers with bags.

One baggage worker told the BBC the situation was "mayhem" and that the technical problems had been known about for some time.

"They have been doing tests on the belt system for the last few weeks and knew it wasn't going right. The computer cannot cope with the number of bags going through."

more on limk..

[blandy]

Never mind the chaos (though it's no doubt a pain) the fact they've felt it necessary to reverse their finger print plan suggests that the public perception of the value benefits and drawbacks of all this ID bollex has switched.

It's interesting, because it's happened before the numpties have pushed it all through in law.

There's hope yet.

[drat01]

thing is i'm sure Drat posted (was it on this topic or another one ?) that he was finger printed the other week when he came into the UK and did a domestic transfer

so if it wasn't going live until Thursday ..was Drat duped by a fingerprint scam artist who is now committing untold crime and leaving Drats finger prints at every crime scene :-)

:-) - It was in place for a while in T1 - did it twice

They also have my Iris details - no queues at passport control for little old me :-)

[snowychap]

thing is i'm sure Drat posted (was it on this topic or another one ?) that he was finger printed the other week when he came into the UK and did a domestic transfer

so if it wasn't going live until Thursday ..was Drat duped by a fingerprint scam artist who is now committing untold crime and leaving Drats finger prints at every crime scene :-)

:-) - It was in place for a while in T1 - did it twice

They also have my Iris details - no queues at passport control for little old me :-)

Or the other lil ol' yous they're developing in them labs? :winkold:

[tonyh29]

They also have my Iris details - no queues at passport control for little old me

you say that but i had 5 people in front of me for the iris on Monday at T4 ..of course one of them was a numpty who couldn't work the machine so it would have been quicker to go through the usual queue ... always the way once the masses get hold of technology

[drat01]

:-) - That is true Tony. Like today though going through Manchester and we arrived back at a similar time as the Emirates so you can imagine the queue was long for normal passport. The looks you get from the "masses" as you waltz through does make you smirk

(and the mancs managed not to steal anything from my luggage this time :-) )

[drat01]

[.......

Or the other lil ol' yous they're developing in them labs? :winkold:

The thought of two me's makes even me shudder

[snowychap]

[.......

Or the other lil ol' yous they're developing in them labs? :winkold:

The thought of two me's makes even me shudder

[Gringo]

Two different issues really:

Selling a voluntary system by offering benefits

...............................vs

Enforcing a compulsory system through the denial of benefits.

Interesting that the FOI weren't even consulted on the compulosry requriments being introduced by a private company, never mind having agreed that they conform to legal requirements. Lucky there's some whistleblowers about I guess, to halt the "sleepwalk into a security state"*

*not my words, but a quote from a govt backed commission

[BOF]

"sleepwalk into a security state"

Relying on civilian apathy will work eventually. It is inevitable. Just keep chipping away bit by bit.

[snowychap]

Everthing's OK! DNA technique 'fit for purpose'

A controversial method of obtaining DNA profiles is "fit for purpose" in court, an independent review has concluded.

The government-commissioned study said low copy number DNA analysis, which can establish a profile from just a few cells, was "scientifically robust".

But it recommended improvements in how police forensic teams collect the cells to ensure there is no contamination.

Use of the method was briefly suspended last year after the Omagh bombing trial judge questioned its credibility.

Professor Brian Caddy's report concluded the technique was fundamentally sound, but not being used as effectively as possible.

Omagh trial

During the Omagh trial, Mr Justice Weir expressed reservations about low copy number (LCN) DNA testing after it wrongly linked a sample taken from a car bomb in Northern Ireland to a 14-year-old boy in Nottingham.

However, an upgraded version of the test later cleared the boy.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland suspended its use after the acquittal of Omagh bomb suspect Sean Hoey.

Police in England and Wales also suspended the technique, but it was reinstated as admissible evidence after a review of relevant cases by the Crown Prosecution Service found no problems.

However, fears remained that dozens of high-profile convictions secured with the help of the technique - including for murder, rape and terrorist offences - could be unsafe.

Professor Caddy, commissioned by the government's Forensic Science Regulator, made 21 recommendations in his review.

.......

Failure rates

He added: "The drive is towards the setting of standards of recovering DNA from crime scenes, and having set those standards, making sure they are properly implemented."

Andrew Rennison, the Forensic Science Regulator, said: "I'm satisfied the science is safe and fit for purpose, but there is work to be done around collection and interpretation."

He is in discussion with the Crown Prosecution Service, National Policing Improvement Agency and Home Office, and will make his own recommendations to ministers soon.

Home Office Minister Meg Hillier also welcomed the reports conclusion.

Paul Hackett, from the government's Forensic Science Service, said the report was a "ringing endorsement" of the technique, which had the support of all agencies involved.

"It is very much case dependent and I think broad-brush statements about its reliability are somewhat inaccurate," he said.

The study noted failure rates for low template DNA analysis are high - one police force estimated success rate in achieving a full profile at about 6%.

LCN DNA evidence has been used in high-profile cases around the world, including the Peter Falconio murder trial in Australia, that of serial rapist Antoni Imiela in the UK, and the search for missing child Madeleine McCann.

Case by case

Forensic expert Professor Allan Jamieson, who questioned the validity of LCN DNA when he gave evidence for the defence in the Omagh bomb trial, said its use should be carefully considered.

"The real issue is: do we know what it means when you see a profile?" said Prof Jamieson, director of The Forensic Institute in Glasgow.

"For example, when you mix two people's DNA together, it's like mixing the coins in their pockets together. They end up on the table and you have to say which coin came from which person.

"You simply can't do that."

I'm still trying to get my head around the 6% success rate. Does that mean that in 6% of cases a full profile is discovered or in 6% of cases the correct profile is discovered.

For more on Allan Jamieson's thoughts on DNA in criminal prosecutions and investigations read this article.

[Gringo]

A DNA database is a wonderful thing, and helped convict the killer of Sally Anne Bowman, leading for the police amongst others to say this justified a national DNA database. Of course this argument ignores the fact that the police on the case arrested someone for the murder previously, held them for a couple of days, ransacked his house and then released him. They had the DNA of the killer on file. They didn't bother/didn't want to cross reference this with the suspect in case they could make a case on something else.

A news article from the Metropolitan Police Service explains: ‘At an early stage DNA was recovered from the murder scene, which police believed identified the murderer.’ The Police had profiled the DNA from the crime scene, they had a man in their custody for whom they already had a DNA profile loaded in the system, the identification of this man was even confirmed by Livescan, and they still arrested him for the murder of Sally Anne Bowman? Kevin's DNA profile on the NDNAD would have been sufficient to show there was no match and clear him from suspicion.

------

He then goes home and find his father's house, where he was living, smashed to pieces and to learn his car is in some pound in south London. The specialist search team were still in his house but leaving. His father commented to the Morning Star:

"They pulled my house apart - breaking furniture and damaging the walls - and went through all my files. Yet, I was not asked a single question about my son," he says.

-------

The detective who led the Bowman investigation said: “It is my opinion that a national DNA register could have identified Sally Anne’s murderer within 24 hours.” The innocent would have nothing to fear, while the guilty would be caught. It could even deter criminals.

-------

Kevin's DNA eventually cleared him after more than 34 hours and a harrowing experience. Having his DNA retained should have cleared Kevin immediately, but it did not. They did not use the retained DNA samples and profile. DNA appears to be used only when convenient for the Police, with little respect for innocent individuals.

clicky

[Gringo]

Herself needs a passport. Now the last time she got one, it cost £18, and of course you expect an increase over time, and so I downloaded the forms yesterday, and looked up the new prices. £72 Cor blimey, they're having a laff. 300% increase in 10 years. If the price had risen in line with inflation they would be about £24, a third of the price.

The unit cost of producing a passport in 1991 was £14. This fell to £10 by 1998. In 1999 they introduced a new computer system (commissioned and contracted under the blue wing, though approved by the red wing) to add further efficiencies to the service, thus the cost rose to £15 per passport in 1999, plus the service owed HMRC £26m to cover the overruns in the implememtation costs.

By 2005 the unit average unit cost per passport had risen to £35 - which to some degree can be explained by the need to include digital photos to comply with the empire's visa waiver program - but since then it has nearly doubled again to £68 per passport.

Year	Cost of Passport	Increase since 1997	Annualised increase
1997	£18.00	0%
1998	£21.00	17%	17%
1999	£28.00	56%	25%
2000	£28.00	56%	16%
2001	£28.00	56%	12%
2002	£33.00	83%	13%
2003	£42.00	133%	15%
2004	£42.00	133%	13%
2005	£51.00	183%	14%
2006	£66.00	267%	16%
2007	£72.00	300%	15%
2008	£72.00	300%	13% (so far)

So for those of us who's only objection to the ID card scheme is the cost, you don't need to worry - you're already paying for it - this is the stealth funding of the ID card and it's systems. As the Passport Office has been rebranded the Indentity & Passport Service, they'll be perfectly placed to introduce the new cards in a couple of years time. And with their track record of delivering efficiencies through new systems, it ain't gonna be cheap.

And to get a same day passport, the cost is now 114 quid

[snowychap]

In 1999 they introduced a new computer system (commissioned and contracted under the blue wing, though approved by the red wing)

Any idea of the contractor?

[Awol]

In 1999 they introduced a new computer system (commissioned and contracted under the blue wing, though approved by the red wing)

Any idea of the contractor?

link

Of course, Siemens' system, when implemented, couldn't deal with the demand, creating a farcical situation as bad as that of the other high-profile government IT failure, the Passport office's new IT system which melted in June 1999. As luck would have it, that failure was also under the control of the Home Office and was run by - you've guessed it - Siemens Business Systems. Of course the Home Office kept saying everything was hunky-dory. Which was nonsense. Oh, and the Immigration Office moved office and sacked a load of staff in expectation of the computer system - none of which helped either.

[snowychap]

The ID card will make us all safe.

It will become compulsory next year for some members of our society including those people working airside and

"From 2009, the government will be introducing new biometric ID cards for people who work airside in the country's airports, allowing an individual to be linked more securely to their own true identity, helping protect against crime, illegal immigration and terrorism."

However, it seems we can't be arsed to do full checks (or indeed any checks) about people's foreign criminal records so it surely doesn't really matter whether we can 'more securely link' them to 'their own true identity' when we don't know what their true identity reveals.

link

Foreign workers who work airside at UK airports do not have to undergo full mandatory criminal records checks, the BBC's Newsnight has reported.

Since 2003, staff have been checked against UK criminal records, but offences abroad are not covered.

Aviation Minister Jim Fitzpatrick has defended vetting procedures for staff.

"Anybody who is able to work in a restricted zone is screened in exactly the same thorough way as any member of the public," he added.

After the terrorist attacks of 11 September, governments across the world pledged to make airports more secure.

In the UK, the government introduced mandatory criminal records checks for all staff working airside.

But Newsnight has discovered a serious loophole in the legislation. Foreign workers are being employed without undergoing any criminal records checks.

The government says it would simply take too long and be too complex to check criminal records from abroad.

The Newsnight report on airport security

The Conservative Shadow Home Affairs Secretary, David Davis, told Newsnight: "It's astonishing given the history and, of course, the risk on the airside of any airport in the United Kingdom." He went on, "To not do anything about it because it's inconvenient , it's a disgrace."

The list of offences covered by a Criminal Records Check is comprehensive. Anyone who has an unspent conviction for anything from theft or criminal damage to murder or terrorism would be refused a pass airside - known as the restricted zone.

But that is not true if those crimes were carried out abroad. The Criminal Records Check only covers offences which take place in the UK.

Thousands estimated

And that, says aviation analyst, Chris Yates, leaves passengers, very exposed.

"We really need to ask the question , is it now necessary to restrict employment at our airports to those people for whom we can carry out the full panoply of checks?"

Around 200,000 people work airside at airports across the country. BAA would not confirm how many are foreign - though it is estimated to be in the thousands.

....more on link

[BOF]

[snowychap]

I assume that IBM, Fujitsu, Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Thales and EDS are all still thinking ID cards are a good idea as they are all still in the running for the £2,000 million gravy train.

Five survive the cut as doubts grow about Government's ID card scheme

The credibility of the Government's tendering process for its £2 billion biometric identity card scheme was cast into doubt yesterday after all the remaining companies interested in the scheme's IT contracts advanced to a shortlist of qualified bidders.

The framework deals, which will be signed next week, do not guarantee a role in the ID programme, but they qualify the companies to bid on contracts expected to be offered this year.

IBM, Fujitsu, Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Thales and EDS survived the cut, but were the only companies left on the list after Accenture, BAE Systems and Steria dropped out.

The announcement was controversial and industry insiders said that the troubled procurement process had been a debacle. Bill Nagel, an analyst for Forrester Research said: “Clearly the Government was expecting a more competitive bid process, so now they have to deal with who they have got.

“I think it is more indicative of the uncertainty surrounding the future of the ID cards scheme that not only did the Government not get more bidders in the first place, but that you had people dropping out throughout the process.”

The Government denied that the credibility of the project has been damaged by allowing all five remaining bidders to make up the shortlist. A Home Office spokesman said: “We looked at the final five, we considered that they all scored well enough to meet all of our criteria. To suggest that the only way to demonstrate that the process has worked is to remove one at the final hurdle is not a rational argument.”

However, industry insiders pointed to the inclusion of CSC, an American company, in the shortlist as evidence that the process was not as rigorous as it could have been. Reports have suggested that the company's subcontractors had dropped out, starting with Siemens six months ago and followed by Unisys last month. CSC said that it could deliver on the ID contracts and has “two organisations working with them on the ID Cards programme”, but it would not reveal their names.

....more on link..

[Gringo]

Framework deals are nice way of getting under the radar of the OJEU procurement process which ensures that contracts over a certain size have been correctly analysed and the budget expended is being used to get value for money. Once contracted through a framewok agreement the govt departments can hand out the money with rather less supervision.

It's not unusual for a framework agreement to be offered to five contractors and all five to be found up to scratch. They are probably all equally capable, and I'm sure the govt will manage to deliver project within budget and on time. lol. Intersting to note that of the contractors approved, only IBM and thales have not been boot out of other govt contracts in the past 10 years. EDS and CSC have shown incredible incompetence in delivering projects, but hey, give them another chance.