National ID cards - good idea?

[snowychap]

How many contracts did those companies, which didn't get booted off any, have?

IBM had a DEFRA contract, one with the Navy, the 'e-borders' project, one with the RAF...

Any idea how much money these companies and their consultants are making out of the taxpayer?

[Gringo]

Well when you're charging 1500 GBP per day for the lowest consultant, I'm sure they are managing to cover their costs. Viva la free market.

[blandy]

ID card planners 'talk tough but act weak'

All five suppliers bidding for the biometric ID cards programme have gone through to the next stage, prompting accusations of weakness and time-wasting from the IT industry.

The original group of eight shortlisted last autumn has gone down, but only because three of the bidders dropped out. The remaining five – CSC, EDS, Fujitsu, IBM and Thales – will go on to the framework enabling them to compete for work building the controversial £2bn scheme, the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) said yesterday.

Industry insiders accused the IPS of "talking tough and acting weak". "Not a single decision has been made in this procurement, the only thing that has happened is that people have walked away," said a source. "The place is awash with management consultants and there have been all these hurdles and all these discussions, without exercising choice at any point."

Bill Crothers, commercial director at IPS, said the agency chose the shortlisted eight from a pool of 40, and that all five winners passed the necessary tests. "We did think hard about whether to drop one because it would be easier from a PR angle," he said. "But all five is a better pool of talent, so it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face."

With the framework in place, competitions for the actual contracts for biometric and biographical databases, application systems and card production will go ahead over the rest of this year.

But the design of the scheme is already showing signs of political distortion. The Government needs to get at least some ID cards out to citizens in the short term, not least because both opposition parties say they would cancel the plan and a general election is nearing. Meeting that timetable means building a relatively small-scale system in advance of the main scheme. So before the full-sized deals go under the hammer at £500m a time, IPS needs its newly engaged suppliers to bid for a £10m to £20m contract to build a mini version to process several hundred thousand people – first, so-called "critical workers" such as air-side airport staff, at the end of next year, and then young people from 2010.

This plan rings warning bells that ID cards may join the litany of government technology programmes sent off the rails by unrealistic political timetables.

"The Government is now in its most tumultuous political situation for 20 years, and the ID programme is right at the centre of that," Eric Woods, a director at Ovum, said. "The timetable is being driven from the point of view of what can be got through the door rather than what is needed in terms of long-term viability, cost efficiency and performance, and that is a major danger."

[Awol]

Well when you're charging 1500 GBP per day for the lowest consultant, I'm sure they are managing to cover their costs. Viva la free market.

I've had dealings with the tech guy who is heading up the Thales bid and that's around his rate. He's also the dogs knackers so I'd be surprised - if this abortion of a policy goes ahead - if they don't get the contract.

[snowychap]

ID cards 'could threaten privacy'

The government should limit the data it collects on citizens for its ID card scheme to avoid creating a surveillance society, a group of MPs have warned.

The Home Affairs Select Committee called for proper safeguards on the plans for compulsory ID cards to stop "function creep" threatening privacy.

It wants a guarantee the scheme will not be expanded without MPs' approval.

The Ministry of Justice said it had to balance protecting the public with protecting a right to privacy.

'Ambiguity'

The National Identity Scheme is due to start rolling out later this year, and will eventually hold details on everyone in Britain over the age of 16.

The select committee said in a report: "It should collect only what is essential, to be stored only for as long as is necessary.

"We are concerned... about the potential for 'function creep' in terms of the surveillance potential of the national identity scheme.

"Any ambiguity about the objectives of the scheme puts in jeopardy the public's trust in the scheme itself and in the government's ability to run it."

The committee said it accepted the government's assurance that the scheme would not be used as a surveillance tool.

However, "we seek the further assurance that any initiative to broaden the scope of the scheme will only be proposed after consulting the information commissioner and on the basis that proposals will be subject to parliamentary scrutiny in draft form," it said.

Committee chairman Keith Vaz said there could be "potentially disastrous consequences" if data was mishandled.

Therefore, he said, the government should draw up a "broad outline of contingency plans" to deal with potential security breaches in the ID cards programme.

The report referred to the loss of two discs containing the personal details of 25m people last year.

"The minister's assurances that the government has learned lessons, though welcome, are not sufficient to reassure us or, we suspect, the public," it said.

The report also urged the government to set up new controls on the National DNA Database to prevent "unnecessary invasions of privacy".

It said the system should be changed to make it easier for people whose DNA is on the system to challenge its retention.

'Public trust'

Mr Vaz said: "What we are calling for is an overall principle of 'least data, for least time'.

"The public don't have much choice over the data held on them by public bodies so they must be confident about how it is being collected, stored and used, otherwise we are in danger of becoming a surveillance society." Information Commissioner Richard Thomas said he welcomed the report.

"It is essential that positive action is taken to ensure the potential risks of a surveillance society never manifest themselves in this country," Mr Thomas said.

"Every possible step must be taken to ensure public trust in the way that personal information is collected and stored."

The report also called for a public consultation on the powers of public bodies, such as councils, to use surveillance powers.

In April, there was widespread criticism when it emerged that Poole Borough Council had carried out surveillance on a family accused of cheating the school catchment system.

The chairman of the Local Government Association, Sir Simon Milton, said he understood there were concerns over the use of surveillance.

"We are working with the government, police chiefs and the surveillance commissioners to clarify some of the details of the legislation and make sure it is clear when and how surveillance should be used," Sir Simon said.

A Ministry of Justice spokesman said: "The government takes the protection of personal data extremely seriously and is committed to ensuring that information is shared in a safe and secure way.

"It is necessary to find a balance between protecting the public and protecting a right to privacy.

"Data sharing is not only essential to delivering public service but also has an important role to play in tackling potential criminal activities."

The government said it would respond fully to the report in due course.

No it shouldn't. It should stop with this ridiculous and draconian idea in respect of British subjects.

FWIW, I will never carry an ID card. Ever. Regardless of any statute. And I will promote the idea of armed resistance to the state on the basis of an ID card. (Yes, you can have my address, Jacqui - by PM only).

[drat01]

[..........

FWIW, I will never carry an ID card. Ever. Regardless of any statute. And I will promote the idea of armed resistance to the state on the basis of an ID card. (Yes, you can have my address, Jacqui - by PM only).

Going away on holiday this year?

[nrogers]

[..........

FWIW, I will never carry an ID card. Ever. Regardless of any statute. And I will promote the idea of armed resistance to the state on the basis of an ID card. (Yes, you can have my address, Jacqui - by PM only).

Going away on holiday this year?

A passport whilst being ID, is required to travel to foreign Climes... you don't need to carry it on a daily basis, and most don't, and it sits safely in a draw 95% of the year... not really what is being proposed here now Ian, is it?

[drat01]

Nick Snowy said he would not carry one ever

Big big difference between ever and sometimes!

[nrogers]

No Ian, being forced to carry a mandatory ID card is completely different to carrying a Passport, when wanting to leave the country.

[snowychap]

[..........

FWIW, I will never carry an ID card. Ever. Regardless of any statute. And I will promote the idea of armed resistance to the state on the basis of an ID card. (Yes, you can have my address, Jacqui - by PM only).

Going away on holiday this year?

No. I can't afford such things. :cry:

Carrying a form of identification in order to do something and being forced to possess, carry and show an ID card are two very different things.

And I must put the mention of the Home secretary down to an excess of alcohol as it would be our wonderfully named Minister of Justice.....

EDIT: I blame the alcohol for the 'armed resistance' comment, too. :oops: I'm a pussycat, honest.

[Awol]

MP's seem to agree we're not all paranoid nutters..

MPs fear ID cards could be used for spying

The multibillion-pound identity card scheme could be used to carry out surveillance on millions of people, a Commons select committee said yesterday.

MPs added that they were seriously concerned at the way that local councils and other agencies were using spying powers to deal with low-level crimes such as dropping litter.

In a 117-page report on surveillance, the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee urged the Government to make it easier for the public to challenge decisions to keep their DNA on the national database.

Keith Vaz, its chairman, said: “What we are calling for is an overall principle of ‘least data, for least time'. We have all seen over the past year extraordinary examples of how badly things can go wrong when data is mis-handled, with potentially disastrous consequences.”

He added: “The public don't have much choice over the data held on them by public bodies so they must be confident about how it is being collected, stored and used, otherwise we are in danger of becoming a surveillance society.”

The report, entitled A Surveillance Society?, said that it accepted assurances from ministers that surveillance was not part of the current plans for the ID card scheme, but it sought guarantees that no expansion would take place without MPs' approval.

The committee expressed alarm at the extent to which surveillance operations under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act are being used for minor offending. Recent figures show that local councils have been using the Act to conduct surveillance to deal with flytipping, littering, dog fouling and the sale of alcohol to those aged under 18.

Yesterday's report said that at the end of last year 656,000 of the 4.2 million samples on the DNA database were replicas and that thousands more were samples taken from people who were arrested but not charged subsequently with an offence.

[Dale]

Don't see how it would stop anything, just not necessary. I wouldn't carry one and I wouldn't vote for a party/politician in favour of such a scheme.

[Gringo]

If passports and ID cards are the same thing, why do we need ID cards?

[snowychap]

During Home Office questions, today:

Meg Hillier: The Government’s position on compulsion is absolutely clear and has been from the moment the ID card scheme was first mooted. We believe that once ID cards have been rolled out to the general population, and then only if there is wide acceptance of the scheme, the Government of the day could make a proposal to Parliament to vote on whether ID cards should be compulsory, but there are no plans for compulsion at the point of introduction in 2011.

So, it is absolutely clear, there are no plans for compulsion when introduced in 2011 but the government has thought seriously about the likelihood of the question of compulsion being moved after roll out to the general population.

[Gringo]

Cut'n'Paste Warning

Information commissioner: Database threatens our way of life, watchdog warns

A proposed "super-database" tracking every phone call, text, email and internet usage in Britain in real time would be "a step too far for the British way of life", the information commissioner warned yesterday.

Richard Thomas said there needed to be the "fullest public debate" over the justification for - and implications of - a database which held details of everyone's telephone and internet communications and was potentially accessible by a wide range of law enforcement agencies.

"Do we really want the police, security services and other organs of the state to have access to more and more aspects of our private lives?" the commissioner asked at the launch of his annual report.

A Home Office project team is developing the radical plan for a system that would use new techniques to monitor phone lines and the internet to store details on every individual's browsing and communications traffic - although not its content - enabling the police to build a profile of an individual and their network of contacts.

The proposal is still at a discussion stage between the Home Office and the telecommunications and internet industries, but the government's draft legislative programme for this autumn does include a data communications bill which the Home Office acknowledges may include the legal power to set up such a central database and a public authority to administer it.

More than 57bn text messages were sent in Britain last year, suggesting that a central database would have to be massive.

Since October internet service providers and telecommunications companies have been required to keep records of phone calls, text messages, emails and internet use. The companies log names, internet protocol addresses and telephone numbers but not the content of calls or names of websites viewed.

A Home Office spokesman said a central database would save the police approaching hundreds of internet service providers to see if they held data on suspects. "The changes to the way we communicate, due particularly to the internet revolution, will increasingly undermine our current capabilities to obtain communications data and use it to protect the public. Losing the ability to use this data would have very serious consequences for law enforcement and intelligence gathering in the UK."

I'm sure people keep telling me this can't happen, but they're trying their darndest to make it so.

[snowychap]

A Home Office spokesman said: "....Losing the ability to use this data would have very serious consequences for law enforcement and intelligence gathering in the UK."

Losing the ability????

I'm afraid, in my book, that stands up about as much as a voyeur saying, "Losing my ability to view my sexy next door neighbour when she gets out of the shower would have very serious consequences for my masturbatory practices."

[Digsby]

Cut'n'Paste Warning

Information commissioner: Database threatens our way of life, watchdog warns

A proposed "super-database" tracking every phone call, text, email and internet usage in Britain in real time would be "a step too far for the British way of life", the information commissioner warned yesterday.

Richard Thomas said there needed to be the "fullest public debate" over the justification for - and implications of - a database which held details of everyone's telephone and internet communications and was potentially accessible by a wide range of law enforcement agencies.

"Do we really want the police, security services and other organs of the state to have access to more and more aspects of our private lives?" the commissioner asked at the launch of his annual report.

A Home Office project team is developing the radical plan for a system that would use new techniques to monitor phone lines and the internet to store details on every individual's browsing and communications traffic - although not its content - enabling the police to build a profile of an individual and their network of contacts.

The proposal is still at a discussion stage between the Home Office and the telecommunications and internet industries, but the government's draft legislative programme for this autumn does include a data communications bill which the Home Office acknowledges may include the legal power to set up such a central database and a public authority to administer it.

More than 57bn text messages were sent in Britain last year, suggesting that a central database would have to be massive.

Since October internet service providers and telecommunications companies have been required to keep records of phone calls, text messages, emails and internet use. The companies log names, internet protocol addresses and telephone numbers but not the content of calls or names of websites viewed.

A Home Office spokesman said a central database would save the police approaching hundreds of internet service providers to see if they held data on suspects. "The changes to the way we communicate, due particularly to the internet revolution, will increasingly undermine our current capabilities to obtain communications data and use it to protect the public. Losing the ability to use this data would have very serious consequences for law enforcement and intelligence gathering in the UK."

I'm sure people keep telling me this can't happen, but they're trying their darndest to make it so.

Just the thought of this scares the living daylights out of me. What sort of world would we be living in if this were to ever happen?

I can see a revolt against machines being a very real prospect in the future - terrorists engaged in a battle to destroy these super computers - and I think I might be one of them.

That article paints a horrid vision of the future

[Gringo]

'Spying' requests exceed 500,000

More than 500,000 official "spying" requests for private communications data such as telephone records were made last year, a report says.

Police, security services and other public bodies made requests for billing details and other information.

Interception of Communications Commissioner Sir Paul Kennedy said 1,707 of these had been from councils.

A separate report criticises local authorities for using powers to target minor offences such as fly-tipping.

_________________

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said: "The commissioners' reports offer valuable oversight and provide reassurance that these powers are being used appropriately.

"These powers can make a real difference in delivering safer communities and protecting the public - whether enabling us to gain that vital intelligence that will prevent a terrorist attack, working to tackle antisocial behaviour or ensuring that rogue traders do not defraud the public."

Terrorists, ASBO violators, thought crimes - all the same in the brave new world.

[snowychap]

...ensuring that rogue traders do not defraud the public

Without rogue traders, what would that nice Matt Allwright do for a living?

[Santa_Rosa]

Don't Get Done, Get Databases