West Ham Lose The Plot

[LancsVillan]

by and a welcome return for PB

West Ham want £12m for Nigel Reo-Coker according to reports. PB thinks that the Hammers should get a grip on reality and reflects on the transfer window generally.

Martin O’Neill is back behind his desk this morning at the start of what is likely to be a rather hectic couple of weeks transfer-wise before Villa jet off to Canada and the USA in the middle of next month. Sitting in his In-tray, if reports are to be believed, will be notice that West Ham want no less than the incredible sum of £12m for England U-21 captain Nigel Reo-Coker.

Now I make no claims to being a mathematical genius, and of course West Ham are perfectly entitled to ask whatever price they want for a player on their books, but seriously, West Ham are being rather unrealistic in this appraisal of young Nigel. Maybe the stress over their rather uncertain future is making them behave so oddly, who knows?

Some things for them to consider:

1) Nigel wants to leave. Everyone knows that he wants to be saved from his “West ham nightmare” as the papers always put it. Buyers know he wants to leave, this depresses his price.

2) On the same day as West Ham are asking £12m for their, as yet, unproven starlet, Barcelona completed the signing of arguably the world’s finest goal scoring machine, the always magnificent Thierry Henry, for £16m. Is it just me that feels that if Henry’s price is a market barometer, then West Ham are asking for probably twice their player’s value?

3) West Ham have already signed a replacement for Reo-Coker in the shape of Parker from Newcastle. Now, presumably they feel that Parker is better than Reo-Coker, which is why they bought him. Parker cost £7m. Anyone see the flaw in the Hammers valuation there?

Anyway, if they insist on asking £12m, as is their right, then fair enough, let them. Villa should steer well clear and leave West Ham with their unsettled player, paying his wages week after week, and month after month, and getting nothing in return. I’d wish them well with their hearing over the “Tevez Affair”, but you know, that would be hypocritical of me, as everyone and their dog knows that West Ham should be relegated. They won’t be of course, but they really, really should be. Its hard to find sympathy with a club that cheated their way out of trouble, and this Reo-Coker affair doesn’t endear them to anyone either.

I’ve been steering clear of the forums recently. Its transfer window time, so I can imagine what its like though, and some comments from General Krulak confirm that distant impression. The poor man sounded rather rattled by, I’m guessing, all the hyper stressed forum posts that always surround this time of year. General, I know it’s your job to stay in touch with the troops, but I can only advise you really to ignore it. Every transfer window is exactly the same, and 99% of what is written is just people filling time while they’re bored at work. Everyone wants everything now; such is the way of the world. You just carry on with the plan that, to date, the board has executed so brilliantly. Your season ticket sales should tell you that the vast majority of fans are as happy as can be with things at the club at the moment. You’ll learn I guess that this time of year on the forums is rather, erm, excitable.

Saying all that, it is mildly surprising that we haven’t made any successful moves to date. That’s “surprising” as opposed to “shocking”, “awful”, “scandalous”, “terrible”, “shameful” or any of the other adjectives which are presumably being banded around with gay abandon. Still, we are, after all, less than one third of the way through the window and I for one remain confident that come September 1st the Villa squad will be strong enough to make the huge forward leap that we are expecting next season. What is the reason for that confidence?

It’s simple really. The people running this club today aren’t the clueless muppets that were running the club 12 months ago. Aston Villa in the summer of 2007 is a hyper-professional organisation with people throughout that know exactly what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve it and who have the resources to fulfil their vision. Such people generally make considered decisions; these aren’t the kind of guys to buy Titus Bramble just because he’s available to appease a few fans on a few message boards. To paraphrase the General, us fans can only trust these guys to do the right job, and let’s be honest, everything they have done to date has shown them worthy of that trust.

Personally I can’t wait to take up my seat on August 11th; next season is going to be pretty exciting.

PB

[pablopicasso]

cant disagree with any of that...

[hardinga]

nice first post - not. LV

[eholm]

As per usual, common sense from MrB...if only it could be matched by other posters then this ridiculous 'lack of transfers' hysteria would disappear!!

[Richard]

Cracking post from PB, your absence is understandable but this board is the poorer for it.

[hammer63]

A few other points to consider:

1] West Ham are now rich. They have NRC on long contract - they don't need to sell him - he can stay in the reserves and as back up next season. Paying his wages is no big deal as they are (relatively) low - he is only leaving because west ham refused him the improved wages at the end of last season

2] Nigel Medi-ocre is not a great player - he's an average premiership player who runs around a lot (sometimes) but can't pass/shoot and rarely scores (he is also not a great tackler ie he is NOT Roy Keane). If we get 8 million for him it will be good business for WHUFC/bad business for Villa. Reo Coker is also a disruptive word removed who was partly responsible for the problems at WHU last season (that is why Curbs wants him gone).

3] He doesn't want to play for VIlla. He thinks he should be playing for Arsenal or MANU. You're welcome to him.

4] villa will end up paying 8 million

5]"Its hard to find sympathy with a club that cheated their way out of trouble" - you don't know what you're talking about

[OldFart]

Bye bye

[Cockneylen]

As a West Ham fan I felt obliged to comment on PB's well written article. Firstly, I would wholeheartedly agree that Reo-Coker is not worth £12 million! He was a disgrace last season, sulking through to January because we wouldn't let him talk to Arsenal, and for that money you expect a player that can score, and create goals. Reo-Coker does neither consistently. He does have a great engine, and can work for 90 minutes, box to box, but regularly gives away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas. He is still young, so maybe there's potential there that more expert football brains can discern. However, if we do get that price, I for one will be pleased, and will also chip in for his taxi fare.

Secondly, I think there's a massive misinterpretation of the Tevez affair. The new West Ham regime found the evidence, took it to the Premier League, pleaded guilty at the hearing, and accepted the punishment. What more could we have done? At that time most West Ham fans would have probably preferred a points deduction as we all believed we were relegation certainties, and maybe the Premier League thought so too. Tevez was always registered correctly, hence no action from the FA, and the only rule break was that the company owning him could have sold him in January without the Club's permission. Does that warrant relegation? I don't believe so.

Tevez' influence up to the time of the tribunal was non existent, and he only came into his own after the hearing. Mascherano's influence was nil. Ask yourself, was this influence more than Sheffield United's prevention of Kaba playing against them after selling him to Watford? In the end, the league is decided over 38 games, and we finished the season in superb form, so thoroughly deserve to retain our place. Added to which, I don't recall many complaints from the other teams until we stared winning. None either about us getting beaten by Sheffield, Charlton or Watford, with Tevez in the side.

Finally, would you honestly want to watch Sheffield United and Niel Warnock (OK he's gone now) next year?

[Richard]

hammer63, another point you failed to consider, you're talking bollocks.

[LancsVillan]

A few other points to consider:

1] West Ham are now rich. They have NRC on long contract - they don't need to sell him - he can stay in the reserves and as back up next season. Paying his wages is no big deal as they are (relatively) low - he is only leaving because west ham refused him the improved wages at the end of last season

2] Nigel Medi-ocre is not a great player - he's an average premiership player who runs around a lot (sometimes) but can't pass/shoot and rarely scores (he is also not a great tackler ie he is NOT Roy Keane). If we get 8 million for him it will be good business for WHUFC/bad business for Villa. Reo Coker is also a disruptive word removed who was partly responsible for the problems at WHU last season (that is why Curbs wants him gone).

3] He doesn't want to play for VIlla. He thinks he should be playing for Arsenal or MANU. You're welcome to him.

4] villa will end up paying 8 million

5]"Its hard to find sympathy with a club that cheated their way out of trouble" - you don't know what you're talking about

hammer63 thanks for signing up and responding in a more mature way than your fellow 'appy 'ammer.

1 - so the impact on the whole squad of keeping a player who doesn't want to be there will be something to ignore. Sorry but as he so obviously wants to move, you will sell him. Just because you could afford to let him rot it doesn't mean you will, especially as regardless of his football knowledge, the biscuit baron is a businessman so he can see why he should sell.

2 - Nigel Medi-ocre! Nice one some VTers have referred to him as that too ;-) To me he is a younger, fitter version of Gav McCann and will perform that role well.

3 - What is wrong with someone thinking like that, surely it shows a self confidence that you want in one so young.

4 - we agree on that one.

5 - The world outside of the Boleyn Ground does seem to think that the Tevez affair is 'cheating' and you will always live with that tag from now on. For me I'm rather glad you stayed up as it sent Sheff U down.

EDIT: Thanks to to Cockneylen. A good reply

[Baldrick'sTrousers]

As a West Ham fan I don't understand why Villa fans seem to be so bitter about the Reo-Coker situation. It's mid-June, we have a player who wants to leave but have only recieved one offer which does not met our valuation.

Whether or not you agree with the valuation, the transfer window doesn't close for two months. I'm sure if O'Neil rates Reo-Coker he will either increase your offer or wait it out and hope that nobody else does.

[OutByEaster?]

The views of the West Ham fans here I think prove the point that the last thing West Ham want is Reo Coker hanging around. He's clearly about as welcome at West Ham as Paul Ince carrying a United shirt.

That's why it's almost staggering that West Ham are trying to eek out this extra money, and IMO if West Ham get stuck with a player they clearly don't want because of their slightly skewed vision of the transfer market, it'll have been the dumbest thing anyone from West Ham has done since Bobby Moore took a liking to foreign jewellery.

[peterms]

As a West Ham fan I don't understand why Villa fans seem to be so bitter about the Reo-Coker situation. It's mid-June, we have a player who wants to leave but have only recieved one offer which does not met our valuation.

Whether or not you agree with the valuation, the transfer window doesn't close for two months. I'm sure if O'Neil rates Reo-Coker he will either increase your offer or wait it out and hope that nobody else does.

I don't think people are bitter, more like incredulous. He wants out, you want him out, the generally accepted valuation is around £6-8m, and the club are asking what most people see as a ridiculous figure. It's not how you do business.

But if Wham won't shift from that valuation, that's their right. I think that most Villa fans regard it as a joke, though. Especially if you're left with an unsold player hanging around, making waves, getting wages, and preventing a transfer fee coming in which could be used elsewhere. It seems both daft, and self-defeating.

[Richard]

If he's such a disruptive word removed who is the sole reason for their struggles last year, then why rick him still being there by demanding a ridiculous fee?

[Baldrick'sTrousers]

I don't think people are bitter, more like incredulous. He wants out, you want him out, the generally accepted valuation is around £6-8m, and the club are asking what most people see as a ridiculous figure. It's not how you do business.

Is there any meaningful 'generally accepted valuation' when it comes to player value - I think 12m would be top of the market (but easily conceivable if one of the top four were interested), but in my opinion 7m is a couple under par. Frankly with all the new money swirling round the Premiership there is no clear value for a young English player with Reo-Coker's credentials. Now more than ever players are worth what the market will stand.

Surely accepting a bid for a player (even an unsettled one) which a club considers below his potential market value, when there is no immediate pressure to do so, is a much worse way to do business?

But if Wham won't shift from that valuation, that's their right. I think that most Villa fans regard it as a joke, though. Especially if you're left with an unsold player hanging around, making waves, getting wages, and preventing a transfer fee coming in which could be used elsewhere. It seems both daft, and self-defeating.

I'd be dissapointed if Reo-Coker was still at the Boleyn come August because I think it will be best for both parties for him to move - I have little doubt he will be at a new club before the new season. Having said that I see nothing wrong in the way the club is doing business.

[OutByEaster?]

You're right, there is nothing wrong with the way WH are doing business. Wrong would be too strong a word, I just don't think it's particularly bright.

[Richard]

I'd be dissapointed if Reo-Coker was still at the Boleyn come August because I think it will be best for both parties for him to move

Surely accepting a bid for a player (even an unsettled one) which a club considers below his potential market value, when there is no immediate pressure to do so, is a much worse way to do business?

Can you not see the dichotomy?

It is a stance that the club cannot maintain if, as you and many other Wet Spam fans suggest, NRC is a disruptive influence and one of if not the main reason why you struggled last year. If he does not move, and he will not if the price is wrong, then that disruptive influence is still there and you get even lower than our current bid come January.

I am afraid thats the reality of the situation for your club

[Jon]

I'd be dissapointed if Reo-Coker was still at the Boleyn come August because I think it will be best for both parties for him to move

Surely accepting a bid for a player (even an unsettled one) which a club considers below his potential market value, when there is no immediate pressure to do so, is a much worse way to do business?

Can you not see the dichotomy?

It is a stance that the club cannot maintain if, as you and many other Wet Spam fans suggest, NRC is a disruptive influence and one of if not the main reason why you struggled last year. If he does not move, and he will not if the price is wrong, then that disruptive influence is still there and you get even lower than our current bid come January.

I am afraid thats the reality of the situation for your club

all true tricky. But why do WHU have to accept our £7m offer now? Surely they are simply being prudent by waiting to see if a) others come in for him and if we up our bid to get him before the window shuts.

They have no real incentive to sell now (unless we put a time limit on our offer). We would want him i'd imagine asap to blood him into the team. They will want rid before the window shuts. They want the max price they can get for him. WE want to pay as little as possible.

It's a mexican stand off type situation (for the time being). I think we will up the offer, but not by much.

But they have no incentive to sell at the first decent offer. It's a game of "who will blink first" to some degree ......

[International_Iron]

PB

A well-written and thoughtful article which, by and large, I agree with.

However, you and a number of other forum contributors seem to be under a misconception about West Ham. Allow me to explain.

The previous owners lied about a 3rd Party contract (unenforceable) to the PL. The new owners informed the PL, went to tribunal, were found guilty and punished. The tribunal was set up by the PL, agreed by the 20 clubs in the Division, and was unbiased. West Ham paid a record 5.5 million fine.

The 12 Million quoted as NRC's asking price is newspaper talk - I have not seen, read or heard any West Ham, or Villa official for that matter, state that is the price being asked. As you know, the newspapers (hacks) go into a feeding frenzy at this time of year and at the moment, West Ham are the current 'Whipping Boys'.

Once the Arbitration announces that Sheffield Utd were not good enough on the football field to remain in the PL, that West Ham were punished correctly and that the matter is closed - they will find some other club to trash.

I have nothing against the Villans, respect your History and like your manager - all I ask in return is that you don't fall for this McCabe instigated bollox about West Ham.

[villa89]

Its nice to have a view from the other side of the fence but I am confused.

We have west fans saying NRC is mediocre and was the cause of all the trouble last season but yet Egghead is right to ask £12m for the player? How much did scott parker cost again? How much did newcastle pay for joey barton?

West Ham in my eyes are in a bad position, they are desparate to sell and everyone knows it. They have a player who handed in a transfer request which was accepted thus alerting other teams to the players availability.

It seems to me that egghead is trying to instigate a bidding war for NRC but they are having no luck as Villa seem to be the only club interested. West Ham are trying to play the waiting game hoping some other club (spurs?) enter the bidding and raise the price. Its a dangerous game as villa could easily buy another player and forget NRC altogether leaving west ham stuck with a player they don't want.

Regarding the Tevez affair, its all bureacratical nonsense IMO. West Ham won the right to stay the in prem thanks to their efforts on the pitch and sheffield utd. got relegated because they couldn't get a draw last game of the season. Football should be decided on the pitch and in this case it was. Sheff utd. have nobody to blame but themselves.