The 2015 General Election

[smetrov]

 

 

The War?

I think the full quote was

the biggest constitutional crisis since the abdication which the Heil have left out the headline

It does open a can of worms .. If labour don't get a majority , Cameron has no obligation to resign and won't get the first test of his ability to control a majority house until June ... Presumably at that point the SNP will blanket vote with Labour to force Cameron to resign and then the Fun begins

 

 

As I understand it - Cameron would get first dibs to form a coalition.  If Labour don't have an overall majority, technically he doesn't have to resign - in practice he does. Which just proves the whole thing is a puppet show - sure have your election and let the politics swing a liitle to left and right - but overall don't rock the boat - the status quo must be maintained...

[chrisp65]

I get the impression that Cameron has some sort of weekend 'shoot' at a country estate organised for the weekend of the 9th / 10th.

 

If he has to spend time to try and phone around the DUP and UKIP looking for support to stay in office he's going to be properly cheesed off.

[snowychap]

If Labour don't have an overall majority, technically he doesn't have to resign - in practice he does.

That is incorrect.

If no one secures an overall majority then Cameron has the right to stay in office and try to form a coalition or continue as a minority government even if the Conservative party is not the biggest party.

There are several things involved in what a PM should do post election when there's no overall control: the rights of an incumbent PM to continue in office; the duties of the adviser to the sovereign (i.e. recommendation of successor, that the sovereign shouldn't be left without an adviser, &c.), and the obligations of the PM to resign when it is clear someone else is better placed to have the confidence of the House of Commons.

[Stevo985]

Is it wrong for me to base my vote entirely on the fact that I think Milliband is too much of geeky clearing in the woods to be prime minister?

[snowychap]

Yes, frankly.

[Stevo985]

Shame really.

 

Given that, for me, voting is a choice between which shit head is less of a shit head than all of the other shit heads, that's really pushing Milliband over the edge.

 

Cameron is a clearing in the woods too. But at least he didn't get his lunch money stolen every day and still wets the bed.

[snowychap]

Shame really.

 

Given that, for me, voting is a choice between which shit head is less of a shit head than all of the other shit heads, that's really pushing Milliband over the edge.

 

Cameron is a clearing in the woods too. But at least he didn't get his lunch money stolen every day and still wets the bed.

Which constituency are you voting in?

Edit: Doncaster North or Witney?

Edited April 27, 2015 by snowychap

[chrisp65]

Is it wrong for me to base my vote entirely on the fact that I think Milliband is too much of geeky clearing in the woods to be prime minister?

 

Depends how well you know him.

 

If you've based that on first hand personal experience and the shared confidences of people around him, yes that's legit..

 

If you've based it on the bias of the media, that would be pretty dumb.

 

To have broad support for someone's views on europe, their attitude to the private rental housing market and plans for trident, but then vote for someone else because he looks funny eating a sandwich....really?

[Stevo985]

Erm... I think I come under Yardley

 

Is it wrong for me to base my vote entirely on the fact that I think Milliband is too much of geeky clearing in the woods to be prime minister?

 

Depends how well you know him.

 

If you've based that on first hand personal experience and the shared confidences of people around him, yes that's legit..

 

If you've based it on the bias of the media, that would be pretty dumb.

 

To have broad support for someone's views on europe, their attitude to the private rental housing market and plans for trident, but then vote for someone else because he looks funny eating a sandwich....really?

 

I've based it about 80% on his voice and 20% on his face.

[snowychap]

Erm... I think I come under Yardley

In which case, these are the people for whom you may cast your vote:

 

Candidates for Birmingham, Yardley

Grant Bishop (Green Party)

Paul Clayton (UKIP)

Eamonn Flynn (Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition)

John Hemming (Liberal Democrats)

Peter Johnson (Social Democratic Party)

Jess Philips (Labour Party)

Arun Photay (Conservative Party)

Teval Stephens (The Respect Party)

[Stevo985]

John Hemming put a leaflet through my door. Probably vote for him.

[smetrov]

 

If Labour don't have an overall majority, technically he doesn't have to resign - in practice he does.

That is incorrect.

If no one secures an overall majority then Cameron has the right to stay in office and try to form a coalition or continue as a minority government even if the Conservative party is not the biggest party.

There are several things involved in what a PM should do post election when there's no overall control: the rights of an incumbent PM to continue in office; the duties of the adviser to the sovereign (i.e. recommendation of successor, that the sovereign shouldn't be left without an adviser, &c.), and the obligations of the PM to resign when it is clear someone else is better placed to have the confidence of the House of Commons.

 

 

Think we are both correct.

 

I was talking no majority - but labour has most seats

your scenario no majority - but tories has no seats. 

 

Cameron wouldn't IMO try and form a minority govt - if Labour had more seats. He would try for a coalition - but resign as PM if no agreement reached ...

[wazzap24]

I actually 'LOL'd' this morning when I read the 5k SME's back the Tories story.

5k out of 4.9m estimated SME business' in the UK.

0.1%

Lambert had a higher % of support on here than that!

[snowychap]

I was talking no majority - but labour has most seats

Which party has the most seats is immaterial as to the rights/duties, in practice not just 'technically', of the PM.

your scenario no majority - but tories has no seats.

No. My scenario was no overall control (it doesn't matter who has the most seats).

Cameron wouldn't IMO try and form a minority govt - if Labour had more seats. He would try for a coalition - but resign as PM if no agreement reached

As you quite clearly state, that is your opinion on what would happen.

It may well happen like that (it may well not) but don't confuse your opinion of what may happen (or indeed my opinion of what may happen or the opinion of any of the political commentators or media on what may/would/should happen) with what is obliged to happen in practice.

[Jon]

 

 - but tories has no seats. 

 

 

One can but hope ...

[blandy]

I think the full quote was

the biggest constitutional crisis since the abdication which the Heil have left out the headline

It does open a can of worms .. If labour don't get a majority , Cameron has no obligation to resign and won't get the first test of his ability to control a majority house until June ... Presumably at that point the SNP will blanket vote with Labour to force Cameron to resign and then the Fun begins

So the Heil left a word out to make it look worse. My I'm shocked.

 

Anyway, there was a referendum on the scotch leaving not so long back - surely that's more serious than 2 parties co-operating?

 

And finally, last time, when Labour didn't get the most seats, the tories were (rightly) saying that Brown should sling his hook, not wait for a vote in Parliament.

Constitutionally the current PM may try to gather together enough support to form a Gov't before resigning, but if he can't, then he has to let (in this case) Milliband have a go. If he can't either, then it goes back to Cameron.

[tonyh29]

Interesting radio debate on 5 live today around 10:00 , with Nick Clegg being the main MP present

 

they came to the NHS and the labour MP , started going on and on about the NHS and what the Torys were doing .. the presenter  actually stopped her and said , I'm going to stop you there as there are lots of  major inaccuracies in what you said that we need to correct .. which the presenter then proceeded to do  ..... From the audience reaction It was refreshing to finally hear that people aren't blindly buying labours lies on the NHS any longer

 

they also had the head of the NHS ( i thik that's who he was) who said A&E was receiving an extra 20,000 people per week than previous year  .. most of this increase being down to people attending A&E as they couldn't get appointments with their doctor  ... does this mean the first thing the next government needs to do is tackle Doctors surgeries rather than just throwing more nurses at everything ?

[chrisp65]

I see that Jim Wells has now resigned as Norn Iron Health Minister. 

Having apologised last week for accidentally saying stuff he didn't believe (children to adoptive gay parents were more likely to suffer abuse and neglect). He again over the weekend accidentally said more stuff he didn't believe in, this time whilst door to door canvassing he told a lesbian couple what he didn't think. Went back a couple of times to apologise, but to no avail.

He's been under stress due to his wife's illness. That's why he keeps accidentally saying homophobic stuff he doesn't really believe in.

 

 

Beeb

 

 

It is alleged that Mr Wells, who was doing door-to-door canvassing, called at a lesbian couple's house, and during a conversation was critical of their lifestyle.

The daughter of one of the women said her mother was upset.

[tonyh29]

 

And finally, last time, when Labour didn't get the most seats, the tories were (rightly) saying that Brown should sling his hook, not wait for a vote in Parliament.

Constitutionally the current PM may try to gather together enough support to form a Gov't before resigning, but if he can't, then he has to let (in this case) Milliband have a go. If he can't either, then it goes back to Cameron.

 

 

I agree , (even though snowy doesn't agree with Clegg's law   ) ..in my opinion if Labour have more seats (without a majority ) than the Conservatives  , then Cameron should automatically step aside

 

I get the impression that isn't going to be the case though ( if there isn't a majority of course)  , it sounds like Cameron is going to present a new manifesto in his Queens speech  , gamble on the SNP "forcing him" out of office and the "English"  being annoyed that they have been dictated to by the Scotch ...

 

I'm not sure I agree with this move , but equally I don't like the arrogance of Sturgeon walking around the past few months saying she was going to remove the Tories from power

Edited April 27, 2015 by tonyh29

[smetrov]

As you quite clearly state, that is your opinion on what would happen.

It may well happen like that (it may well not) but don't confuse your opinion of what may happen (or indeed my opinion of what may happen or the opinion of any of the political commentators or media on what may/would/should happen) with what is obliged to happen in practice.

In my world greater powers than Cameron would have a quiet word if he tried to form a govt whilst not being largest party. Although I accept your point officially he is under no obligation to do so.