Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Excellent rebuttal - which makes my point - the most dangerous jobs were the highest paid - oil rigs, nuclear plants, coal mines. Danger from working in macdonalds - low, danger from working in a smoking pub - low, but fractionally higher than a non-smoking pub (you might get burnt by a nub end) and the comepnsation would be higher because of the market forces. Hang on, will they be paid more or not? If they will then why, if there's no actual real risk of working in a smoking pub. Are coal-miners really paid that much nowadays? If they are then fair enough. As for nuclear plant-workers, I suspect many of them are actually very well educated which may influence how much they get paid. If you're looking for dangerous jobs, I'd say being in the army heads the list, but they are hardly paid a fantastic amount either.As stated previously, there will be a shortgae of people willing to work in the smoking pubs as the lemon fresh crowd will all want to work in the smoking pubs, therefore scarcity of resource leads to an increase in price for that resource. An understanding of market economics is not a betrayal of socialist traits. And as I said, the coal miners wages have fallen as safety has improved, a perfect illustration of my point that perceived risk, decreases supply, increases price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Risso if you don't believe me that's up to you. But if it helps convince you any, 'I swear on my life that I have seen it in action on more than one occasion in the last 12 months and it seemed to work fine.' Hahaha "On more than once occasion", so, you're scaling down your "many" visits to Spain are you. Come back when you've got something more meaningful to contribute than your two week trip to Majorca last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 The ban works in ireland and pubs are closing. More lies. The Irish Central Statistics Office revealed that in November 2004 (seven months after the ban was introduced) bar sales were down just 2.8 per cent compared with the previous year The exact same thing has happened in Scotland. The 'official figures' say its's all hunky dory, while the publicans on the ground are saying they are struggling to keep their heads above water. Depends who you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 There are sensible ways to regulate the leisure industries and their smoking, and this isn't one of them, this is simply the tyranny of the majority. Smokers as a minority have foisted their filth on us for too long. "Tyranny of the majority?" Oh yes, have some of this clean air, yer bastards. Having to go outside for a fag, what an imposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Only problem with that is the 'official figures' are usually produced by the people who had the idea for the ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 The ban works in ireland and pubs are closing. More lies. The Irish Central Statistics Office revealed that in November 2004 (seven months after the ban was introduced) bar sales were down just 2.8 per cent compared with the previous year So bar sales were down (after just seven months) wonder what it was like after three years. Dublin bars have not suffered too badly as they still have the stag do crowd, but the number of pubs closing in the west or ireland is quite significant. I can't vouch for many examples as I can't be arsed to go back that much anymore since they introduced the silly legislation. But my parents who drive those roads quite a lot pass on certain tales, and anyone who regularly reads the oirish press will have picked up tales of woe from the villages where what was once the local pub/post-office/local shop is now a bed and breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Only problem with that is the 'official figures' are usually produced by the people who had the idea for the ban. You think The Irish Central Statistics Office wanted smoking banned? I hardly think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 There are sensible ways to regulate the leisure industries and their smoking, and this isn't one of them, this is simply the tyranny of the majority. Smokers as a minority have foisted their filth on us for too long. "Tyranny of the majority?" Oh yes, have some of this clean air, yer bastards. Having to go outside for a fag, what an imposition.Yup, wonderful authoritarian viewpoint. Antagonism always brings the best results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 It's a Government agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 The ban works in ireland and pubs are closing. More lies. The Irish Central Statistics Office revealed that in November 2004 (seven months after the ban was introduced) bar sales were down just 2.8 per cent compared with the previous year So bar sales were down (after just seven months) wonder what it was like after three years. Dublin bars have not suffered too badly as they still have the stag do crowd, but the number of pubs closing in the west or ireland is quite significant. I can't vouch for many examples as I can't be arsed to go back that much anymore since they introduced the silly legislation. But my parents who drive those roads quite a lot pass on certain tales, and anyone who regularly reads the oirish press will have picked up tales of woe from the villages where what was once the local pub/post-office/local shop is now a bed and breakfast. Please spare us the apocryphal rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 It's not about majority views - it's about not attacking minorities for no good reason. Public health is a good reason. There are sensible ways to regulate the leisure industries and their smoking, and this isn't one of them, this is simply the tyranny of the majority. It's the most effective way, it's hard line, but in this case I think correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 The ban works in ireland and pubs are closing. More lies. The Irish Central Statistics Office revealed that in November 2004 (seven months after the ban was introduced) bar sales were down just 2.8 per cent compared with the previous year So bar sales were down (after just seven months) wonder what it was like after three years. Dublin bars have not suffered too badly as they still have the stag do crowd, but the number of pubs closing in the west or ireland is quite significant. I can't vouch for many examples as I can't be arsed to go back that much anymore since they introduced the silly legislation. But my parents who drive those roads quite a lot pass on certain tales, and anyone who regularly reads the oirish press will have picked up tales of woe from the villages where what was once the local pub/post-office/local shop is now a bed and breakfast. Please spare us the apocryphal rubbish. Don't bother clicking cos you won't believe it anyway And here's a story from that pro-smoking group the BBC for you to ignore as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Please spare us the apocryphal rubbish. Don't bother clicking cos you won't believe it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 and some anecdotal rubbish from people who actuall live there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Please spare us the apocryphal rubbish. Don't bother clicking cos you won't believe it anyway You're taking the piss now, a report from "Smokers Against Discrimination." Are you THAT desperate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 and some anecdotal rubbish from people who actuall live there It rather seems you haven't read it yourself. hardly anyone mentions the smoking ban, and just as many mention the crack down on drink driving as causing a downturn! Imagine that, cracking down on drinking and driving. Fascists. Maybe we could have "drink driving roads" and "non drink driving roads" that way, everybody has a choice. I mean, people who have been run down by drink drivers, they didn't have to walk home that way, did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 12, 2007 Moderator Share Posted June 12, 2007 Right just to clear some things up, Pubs are not public places. The licensee has the right to refuse to serve anyone for any reason he sees fit, no one has the right of access to a pub, he is there at the licensee's discretion And a 2.8% downturn in business is enough to close some pubs on the margins of the trade, it may sound an insignificant amount but it isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 and some anecdotal rubbish from people who actuall live there It rather seems you haven't read it yourself. hardly anyone mentions the smoking ban, and just as many mention the crack down on drink driving as causing a downturn! Imagine that, cracking down on drinking and driving. Fascists. Maybe we could have "drink driving roads" and "non drink driving roads" that way, everybody has a choice. I mean, people who have been run down by drink drivers, they didn't have to walk home that way, did they? cracking riposte Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Why is the British public so ridiculously desperate to be treated like **** children? Half truths and mis-information rule, giving some a misguided authority to shout down on those who dare to think and act for themselves. It's not fair, it's not fair........ If you jump up and down screaming and acting like a **** kid you'll get treated like one too. And so does the entire bloody nation. Grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 So how come so many English pubs have been closing over the past few years, where there is no Smoking ban yet? Maybe just maybe the time of the traditional pub has been and gone and times are changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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