Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[thetrees]

i still dont get it, we're sitting in 11th and struggling to stay there, we arent trying in the cups anymore

so tell me what the **** point of complying with this FFP bullshit is? we arent qualifying for europe anytime soon, spend some money FFS get us top half, we'll have cleared out bent / given / nzogbia / hutton freeing up some more cash and then we can push from there, this scraping by flirting with relegation until we get rid of them and then investing is a complete waste of time

Because we are in a situation where the owner wants to recoup as much as possible before selling, his mistakes have become a burden, but his reward will be a healthy profit, as for the team? We won't compete for years now.

He will never get a profit. I suspect that if he could get his loss below £50m then he would probably cut and run.

But to do that he needs to find the next Carson Yeung

I feel your pain, I too question Lerner's judgement, so can see why you might feel he would **** up his next decision too - a new owner.

He won't have much choice, as I can't imagine that there will be a long queue.

His worst decision was buying the club in the first place. Give me Abramovic riches tomorrow and I wouldn't touch the Villa eith a bargepole.

I would, but I would make sure there are football people below me to make the decisions and that any plan that I set out, has a fall back, and that any manager I appoint is part of that plan.

And Boohoo for Lerner, awful judgement a lot it seems.

Ah, those mythical 'football people' .

What is a 'football person'?

Not Martin O'Neill, clearly.

Like these mythical bad chairman who will come in next.

Oh there's plenty of bad chairmen, to varying degrees, so no myths there.

But I repeat the question. What is a 'football person'?

So have these bad chairman made a bid for us then? You seem to have the ultimate answer and apparently they will be our next owner. Care to offer proof?

Have you been drinking?

I would be shocked if anyone has shown any interest whatsoever in relieving Randy Lerner of his burden, and have never indicated otherwise. Indeed I have recently pointed out in (I think) the Ellis thread what immovable objects incumbent owners generally are.

You mentioned 'mythical bad chairmen' and I replied that there were plenty of them, so no myth. Plenty as in the number of bad chairmen that there are, and have been, in professional football over the years.

Now, back to those 'football people'...?

[GENTLEMAN]

 

The media have done a number on Lambert.

Totally agree his comments have been taken badly badly out if context. I think he was naive though in terms of making the comment at all. By the way mark regan is bell end

 

Lambert will have to be more guarded in the future when dealing with a similar line of questioning. It is sad because he gave a genuine and thoughtful reply about the FA Cup. Credit to Lambert for keeping his dignity during the post match interviews, I would have been fuming if my integrity was questioned wrongly by the media.   

[thetrees]

i still dont get it, we're sitting in 11th and struggling to stay there, we arent trying in the cups anymore

so tell me what the **** point of complying with this FFP bullshit is? we arent qualifying for europe anytime soon, spend some money FFS get us top half, we'll have cleared out bent / given / nzogbia / hutton freeing up some more cash and then we can push from there, this scraping by flirting with relegation until we get rid of them and then investing is a complete waste of time

Because we are in a situation where the owner wants to recoup as much as possible before selling, his mistakes have become a burden, but his reward will be a healthy profit, as for the team? We won't compete for years now.

He will never get a profit. I suspect that if he could get his loss below £50m then he would probably cut and run.

But to do that he needs to find the next Carson Yeung

I feel your pain, I too question Lerner's judgement, so can see why you might feel he would **** up his next decision too - a new owner.

He won't have much choice, as I can't imagine that there will be a long queue.

His worst decision was buying the club in the first place. Give me Abramovic riches tomorrow and I wouldn't touch the Villa eith a bargepole.

I would, but I would make sure there are football people below me to make the decisions and that any plan that I set out, has a fall back, and that any manager I appoint is part of that plan.

And Boohoo for Lerner, awful judgement a lot it seems.

Ah, those mythical 'football people' .

What is a 'football person'?

Not Martin O'Neill, clearly.

Apparently the people Lerner cleared out were well respected in the game.

Which people? Names please?

Steve Stride for one I think.

Steve Stride intended to retire to Florida whenever Ellis went. He wasn't 'cleared out', indeed he was pivotal in the transition and settling in period of the new ownership. I believe also that he had the opportunity to continue at the club if he wanted to, but elected not to.

Last that I heard, he hasn't made it to Florida yet, so perhaps plans changed.

[Dodgyknees]

So you have absolutely no idea, or proof, that the next owner will be a Catlrson Yeung, all you are doing is finding a weak and feeble excuse to defend Lerner, with something that has zero factual evidence. As for wanting 'football men' why don't you go look at other clubs who have had a man who knows about football, who strengthens and doesn't weaken the team and club, a David Dein (off the top of my head).

Now, back to the fact our next owner will be a 'Carson Yeung' am guessing you have evidence to back up this weak defence if why we are better off with Lerner?

[GENTLEMAN]

 

 

Agree 100% with the Gentleman

I hope this drives Lambert on.

 

Me too. They have their knives out for our club. Piss on them.

 

Beating Arsenal would be the perfect tonic. 

[AstonMartin82]

 

 

 

The window has only been open 4 days... jeez.

This problem was apparent during the last window.

 

He signed 7 players and sold 8!

What does that even mean? The need for creativity was apparent last summer (completely exposed during the Liverpool home game), he signed another striker instead.

 

 

Ok, if you are talking about specifically about a creative midfielder then fair enough, but he tried sorting the defense out during the summer and bought in Tekkers replacement for when he leaves at the end if this season. To say he didn't bother to sign any players is a little harsh,,, he worked hard during the summer to bring in the number of players that he did and I'd imagine if he'd prioritised a creative midfielder over defenders then the rumblings on this site would then be about how obvious it was that we needed the right cover in defense and how Bennett should have been dumped a year ago,

 

He'd have been hard pressed to sort everything out in one summer so as I say, now he has bolstered his squad considerably then if it isn't refined over the next couple of windows then serious questions should be raised... but not right now. 

[TRO]

The reason I'm not as angry; rightly or wrongly; is because it was the cup.

That's how bad it has all got....I know what he means though.

[Isa]

The window has only been open 4 days... jeez.

This problem was apparent during the last window.

 

He signed 7 players and sold 8!

What does that even mean? The need for creativity was apparent last summer (completely exposed during the Liverpool home game), he signed another striker instead.

 

Ok, if you are talking about specifically about a creative midfielder then fair enough, but he tried sorting the defense out during the summer and bought in Tekkers replacement for when he leaves at the end if this season. To say he didn't bother to sign any players is a little harsh,,, he worked hard during the summer to bring in the number of players that he did and I'd imagine if he'd prioritised a creative midfielder over defenders then the rumblings on this site would then be about how obvious it was that we needed the right cover in defense and how Bennett should have been dumped a year ago,

 

He'd have been hard pressed to sort everything out in one summer so as I say, now he has bolstered his squad considerably then if it isn't refined over the next couple of windows then serious questions should be raised... but not right now.

It was you that brought up creativity though by claiming he doesn't have the players to break down teams who sit back.

[The_Lions_Roar]

No way should we sack Lambert!!

I think (and I know many of you will disagree) we have a decent squad of players. What we do need is 3 or 4 first team premier league quality players added to the team. Right now I would personally say Guzan, Vlaar, Delph, Gabby & Benteke are quality premier league players. We desperately need 3 or 4 more this transfer window and we will be fine.

We've had loads of injury set backs this season - Gabby, Benteke, Vlaar, Okore, N'Zogbia, Kozak (6 of our better players).

I keep thinking a subs bench like: Steer, Okore, Clark, Westwood, KEA, Weimann, Kozak isn't all that bad.

A starting 11 of Guzan, Lowton, New CB, Vlaar, Luna, New Mid, N'Zogbia, Delph, New Mid, Benteke, Gabby isn't all that bad!?!

So if the squad is decent then why aren't we playing well? That comes down to Paul Lambert.

Because they need quality first team players around them?

Some of the players we have will be decent to come in and do a job if a player is injured or suspended. No way should they be starting week in week out. But sadly that is what spending low and offering low wages gets you.

[darrenm]

 

 

 

Apparently the people Lerner cleared out were well respected in the game.

Which people? Names please?

 

Steve Stride for one I think.

 

Steve Stride intended to retire to Florida whenever Ellis went. He wasn't 'cleared out', indeed he was pivotal in the transition and settling in period of the new ownership. I believe also that he had the opportunity to continue at the club if he wanted to, but elected not to.

Last that I heard, he hasn't made it to Florida yet, so perhaps plans changed.

 

Consider me informed then. I just remember when Faulkner was appointed, there was a lot of talk from local journalists about Steve Stride being upset at being forced out even though he had a lot of experience.

[The_Lions_Roar]

The window has only been open 4 days... jeez.

This problem was apparent during the last window.

He signed 7 players and sold 8!

What does that even mean? The need for creativity was apparent last summer (completely exposed during the Liverpool home game), he signed another striker instead.

Ok, if you are talking about specifically about a creative midfielder then fair enough, but he tried sorting the defense out during the summer and bought in Tekkers replacement for when he leaves at the end if this season. To say he didn't bother to sign any players is a little harsh,,, he worked hard during the summer to bring in the number of players that he did and I'd imagine if he'd prioritised a creative midfielder over defenders then the rumblings on this site would then be about how obvious it was that we needed the right cover in defense and how Bennett should have been dumped a year ago,

He'd have been hard pressed to sort everything out in one summer so as I say, now he has bolstered his squad considerably then if it isn't refined over the next couple of windows then serious questions should be raised... but not right now.

Spot on. Quantity is now not needed, its quality. For me we've endured the worst part of Lerner's cutting exercise. Lambert now needs to be able to go and buy 3 quality players, not squad players.

[thetrees]

So you have absolutely no idea, or proof, that the next owner will be a Catlrson Yeung, all you are doing is finding a weak and feeble excuse to defend Lerner, with something that has zero factual evidence. As for wanting 'football men' why don't you go look at other clubs who have had a man who knows about football, who strengthens and doesn't weaken the team and club, a David Dein (off the top of my head).

Now, back to the fact our next owner will be a 'Carson Yeung' am guessing you have evidence to back up this weak defence if why we are better off with Lerner?

Clearly the answer to the first part of my last question is yes, but I shall persevere with you.

'Carson Yeung' is an example of a slightly stupid person, with a large ego, and with at least temporary access to a large amount of cash.

If Randy Lerner is to be relieved of his burden quickly and with a 'manageable' loss from his point of view, then he needs to find the next 'Carson Yeung'

At no point was I defending Mr Lerner, merely offering an example of what he will need to find if he wants to get out quickly.

David Dein was as much a 'football person' when he joined Arsenal as Paul Faulkner or Steve Stride were when they joined Villa. To my knowledge, since leaving Arsenal, Mr.Dein has not worked in a similar capacity at any other football club, so probably wouldn't have been available for the Villa.

[TRO]

I just can't understand how he can do nothing to change the problems. Surely he can see how awful the football his team is playing yet there is no change in formation, tactics or players. If you turned up at any other job and under performed every week with no attempt to improve you'd get sacked!

You state that we are only in phase 2 so I guess you are referring to the 5 year plan (each year being a phase).

If I were poor at my job and I wanted long term job security I would also convince the gullible prospective employer that it will take 5 years to achieve the goal. If halfway through year 2 (the second phase) my performance was no better than it was halfway through year 1 (the first phase) and my employer didn't sack me I would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Lambert does not seem to know how to improve the team or the performances. If he did we wouldn't be seeing the rubbish that we are seeing every game.

If your job description was get into Europe within 18 months then it wouldn't be remiss of you to expect the sack.

If your job description was reduce the wage bill by nearly 50% and keep us in the Premier League then you wouldn't expect the sack. I'd imagine this scenario is pretty close to the job description that Lambert was given by Lerner. This doesn't make Lerner gullible and it doesn't mean Lambert has failed.

Ultimately, he has succeeded in his job to date. I'd imagine the conversations with Lerner now will be along the lines of how to improve the team within a business model that is sustainable for the future without the need to be bank rolled by Lerner himself.

With a couple of experienced players bought in to subsidise our youthful squad I wouldn't have thought we are too far away from being competitive in the Premier League whilst being sustainable. On track as far as I see it despite today's poor result.

So far Lambert has succeeded in the job given to him. The problem is that the job he accepted isn't aligned with fans expectations. I'd imagine next season the alignment between Lerners expectations / Lamberts job description and the fans expectations will be as close as they have been since MON left. It is for this reason I'm suggesting people wait until next season before judging Lambert and anything in between is more likely to be over reactions based on expectation levels which are set too high.

A very balanced post, except I'm not sure about the expectations from the fans.

From the fans I talk to in the ground it's the basics, they are concerned are missing during a game....is that too much to expect?

Edited January 4, 2014 by TRO

[lmarsha_926]

I bet if we was 6th in the home table and 19th in the away and still 11th. I think alot less fans would be moaning about Lambert and this thread would not exist

[AstonMartin82]

I could send you a number of pattern's of play I have on my computer, that I believe would help us with the present players we have. Mine though would require Lambert letting the players try, and pass the ball around, and not just lump it up field to Benteke.

 

In the end though it's about being patient, and giving up ground. Drawing teams into our half field, breaking quickly with short sharp passing. The players are capable of doing this as they showed against Sunderland, but it's doesn't seem to me Lambert encourages it. Lambert, as I have gone through UEFA coaching licenses, and if he paid attention they go through many 11v11 practices, with triggers in them, that release players into certain areas.

 

Lambert from what I have seen wishes to focus on the big man up front. The standard lump up field isn't working, and he needs to go back to his coaching manual, and see what he needs to improve it.

 

 

So you said yourself like Sunderland ... ie, our last Premier League game. We do it away but not at home... again, you said yourself break quickly ... easy away, hard at home which more to do with teams sitting back more at VP, the players being on edge more at VP and us not having a truly creative player,

 

I'm not disputing your coaching badges or abilities but I'm sure anything you have done and seen Paul Lambert has also. I just don't think it is as easy as half the people on here think it would be to sort out.

 

I'm not backing Lambert with blind faith, I just think he deserves longer in the job to try and resolve the issues that we have. If we are playing the same way next season with the same results I'll join the anti-Lambert brigade on here, but right now that is far to premature IMO.

[The_Lions_Roar]

I just can't understand how he can do nothing to change the problems. Surely he can see how awful the football his team is playing yet there is no change in formation, tactics or players. If you turned up at any other job and under performed every week with no attempt to improve you'd get sacked!

You state that we are only in phase 2 so I guess you are referring to the 5 year plan (each year being a phase).

If I were poor at my job and I wanted long term job security I would also convince the gullible prospective employer that it will take 5 years to achieve the goal. If halfway through year 2 (the second phase) my performance was no better than it was halfway through year 1 (the first phase) and my employer didn't sack me I would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Lambert does not seem to know how to improve the team or the performances. If he did we wouldn't be seeing the rubbish that we are seeing every game.

If your job description was get into Europe within 18 months then it wouldn't be remiss of you to expect the sack.

If your job description was reduce the wage bill by nearly 50% and keep us in the Premier League then you wouldn't expect the sack. I'd imagine this scenario is pretty close to the job description that Lambert was given by Lerner. This doesn't make Lerner gullible and it doesn't mean Lambert has failed.

Ultimately, he has succeeded in his job to date. I'd imagine the conversations with Lerner now will be along the lines of how to improve the team within a business model that is sustainable for the future without the need to be bank rolled by Lerner himself.

With a couple of experienced players bought in to subsidise our youthful squad I wouldn't have thought we are too far away from being competitive in the Premier League whilst being sustainable. On track as far as I see it despite today's poor result.

So far Lambert has succeeded in the job given to him. The problem is that the job he accepted isn't aligned with fans expectations. I'd imagine next season the alignment between Lerners expectations / Lamberts job description and the fans expectations will be as close as they have been since MON left. It is for this reason I'm suggesting people wait until next season before judging Lambert and anything in between is more likely to be over reactions based on expectation levels which are set too high.

A very balanced post, except I'm not sure about the expectations from the fans.

From the fans I talk to in the ground it's the basics, they are concerned are missing during a game....is that too much to expect?

The basics being, pass 5 yards, control a ball, take a proper throw in?

I'd be very worried if Lambert's training consisted of practising these. These are professional footballers, I heard one fan blaming lambert for a misplaced pass. This transfer window is important, it hink we have enough to stay up this season. But lambert needs to bring some quality in to apease some fans.

[Cliffy Biro]

I bet if we was 6th in the home table and 19th in the away and still 11th. I think alot less fans would be moaning about Lambert and this thread would not exist

 

Nope, people dont care about home and away tables they care about the table and most people have an idea of where we'll end up on that. Lamberts shit football shit signings and shit results are why this thread exists, plain and simple.

[Morpheus]

The media have done a number on Lambert.

No Lambert has done that himself.

[davemk39]

well the January transfer window is here. we will see the clubs intention.

[thetrees]

I bet if we was 6th in the home table and 19th in the away and still 11th. I think alot less fans would be moaning about Lambert and this thread would not exist

To be fair, if the team performs at home, with only a few points picked up away, then you are right, people are generally happy.

We have been pretty shit at home for years. I only hope that this is our lowest point.