Harry

Not so bothered about the manager as if he keeps us up a new season is a new season. If we went down I would pause for thought before renewing but the heart would no doubt rule the head and I would renew. As Blues fan mate put last time they went down.'at least I might get to see them win a few games' Cold comfort but true.

Here Seeing the higlights, the penalty seems fair. Looked a bit harsh at the time, but I don't think Carlos made enough contact with the ball to make it not a penalty - like Johnson's foul on Gabby in the derby last year. Thanks for those. I particularly enjoyed the (German?) commentator saying 'Oops' as Cuellar brought down the player for the penalty. Three very fine goals.

I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of where we are.

A win is a win but not convincing enough for me. It does not fill me with confidence for forthcoming league games. Walker looks like a bit of a find which is something at least.

Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse. I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. And I think that's the key point. When we were poor a few weeks back we all thought things would be better when we got our injured players back. I agree in that, if anything, its got worse. Team selection and tactics are little short of baffling. OK I can live with Clark at LB, needs must when Warnock is so poor but Gabby out on the left? Albrighton left on the bench to accomodate other out of position selections? The bizarre last five minutes of the Sunderland game with Ashley Young at CB. We also kidded ourselves that once the transfer window opened GH could bring in players. Walker is a decent shout given the LY injury and we then have both Lichaj and him. Bridge, again a decent shout (just) but a really expensive option. Cummings?? Enough said. We are linked to all these other good players but as I have said on a couple of other threads I can't see good young players coming to us when we are likely to be relegated and the manager is standing next to the exit (regardless of what the club says). Regardless of all that the real issue is the fact he seems to have lost so many of the players. I don't know whether MM or any other poster really is ITK but there was talk of six unhappy players prior to GH being appointed. My guess is we have a few more now! Even Pires, his man in the dressing room, is slagging him off in the media. The fact he has lost the players is so obvious from the crap we are being treated to on the pitch each week. The reality is we are really unlikely to bring in any player who is fundamentally going to change our performances under GH. Far better to cut our losses now and a get a manager in who can get the best out of the players we have some of which, lets not forget, are really quite good.

Based on where we are in the league and the way the team is being managed he has to go. I hope the club has finally realised we are staring relegation in the face. Seeing the performance last night finally decided me in that I just don't think Houllier has got what it takes to get us out of this mess. I simply don't care what happens in the cup at the weekend but based on the way we are playing its a game we could well lose. That would heap more pressure on Houllier. The pivotal game will be Blues which I fully expect to lose. They have a well organised and effective defence that we will struggle to break down. Their problem is scoring goals but by then it looks like they have Robbie Keane. Maybe the club will take action after that? I really hope so.

I thought that until tonight but I don't think we can get players in when we are struggling to avoid relegation and the manager is likely to get sacked. I was reluctantly backing the manager until tonights game but I think we have to bite the bullet and get rid now before its too late. My prediction is we will have no more points than now by the time we have played Man U on 1 February. We need a manager to organise what we have got before then and maybe just maybe get a couple of loan players in.

I said at the start of December we would be bottom three in the new year and I was right, sadly. That was probably the worst game I have seen at VP since DOL was manager. I'm not going to try to rate players as they all performed poorly in one way or another. If we continue to play like that we will be relegated, no question. We can't score goals and we can't defend and its that simple. Save for losing Milner at the end of the season and gaining Ireland nothing has changed. Arguably the squad is stronger through the kids coming through. What has changed is that we have Houllier instead of MON as our manager. We have to get rid of him now to preserve our premiership status. Its that simple.

And lets remind ourselves of who polices referees....oh yes that would be referees. Villa are not a dirty side and they had seven players booked in what was not a dirty game?

Return? Is someone taking the piss? He has never even started!

That actually could have been the script of a very bad porno flick (or so I have been told).

From watching the foul by Essien, forget yellow that was a straight red IMO.

Shit Look on the bright side, at least its your own.

But better...

A much much better performance. I thought we should get something but my expectations were absolute zero. Did not see the game anywhere as I was watching my son play football (they lost 6-4 for the record) but the four Dads watching with me were all Villa fans and I have so say no one but no one thought we would get anything from the game. When we went 3-2 down the consensus was another Villa **** up. How wrong we were! Proud of the lads today. I just hope we maybe have turned the corner.

Enjoyed that, well done Stan.

Great celebration!! Loved it!!

Great post Blandy. I think that is a pretty fair summation of where we are. The club are clearly backing the manager. Perhaps I should caveat that by adding 'at the moment'. If the results continue to be bad, and I firmly believe we can get something out of the next two games, I think GH's position is virtually untenable. If we lose in the FA Cup and then to the Unwashed it's definitely untenable. If that occurs I will definitely be in the GH out camp. Until that happens the manager and the players should get our full support. There are a lot of us, including me, who are pinning a lot on this transfer window. Ideally I would like us to ship out 3-4 of the mistakes and bring in 2-3 inspired signings. Back in the real world January is a really bad time to bring in players and any half decent player will see that GH is likely to lose his job and there is a real possibility that we could be relegated. Hardly a great advertisement. This leads me back to if its not GH then who? We are staring relegation in the face and I'm not sure RL and PF quite see this just yet. For me and I swallow hard before I say this it has to be Big Sam. We need a manager who can come in and kick arse with our existing players and maybe bring a couple of decent old players in the steady the ship. If he does this forget six month contracts, which I doubt he would accept, he should get the job full time. The boo boy fans were always on MON's case over the style of football but sadly it will be groundhog day. As for MON I was never anti him. I felt he had this season to prove he could take us to the next level and if not after five years in charge it was time to move. As it was we never got the chance to find out. I do however think that he chose, quite deliberately, the timing of his departure to cause maximum disruption to the club. It was clear, maybe with hindsight for the fans, that there was some sort of parting of the ways back in May. RL and PF and I particularly blame the latter failed to suss out what MON was really thinking and call his bluff. His decision to go when he did was unprofessional and frankly childish and will hopefully serve as warning to any future employer. I don't doubt RL's good intentions and I think he is someone with enormous integrity. What he does suffer from is naivety regarding football in England. I have never subscribed to the idea that there was a formal five year plan but I do think there was a broad objective to be playing Champions league football within a few years. The changing nature of the Premier League and perhaps relying to much on MON in all footballing matters coupled with that naivety has meant that we have not achieved that. Yes we have got close but there are no prizes for nearly making it. If we do avoid relegation this season and I hate to say this but unless we see a dramatic improvement in the next few weeks I think that is what will happen it would not surprise me to see RL sell the club. He will get his money back and make a very healthy profit besides as I can see the club being worth £200m plus. I'm not over enamoured with that prospect as I can see us being acquired by a 'money bags' owner who will destroy all the good things that Aston Villa Football Club represents, a legacy that RL, to his credit, has both respected and nurtured. Exciting in the short term maybe but long term destructive as the plastic fair weather fans flog to B6. Overall sitting here on the 1st January I'd love to say I'm full of hope. Sadly I'm not. Actually I'm full of dread as I can't see where the next point will come from. Its a horrible horrible situation. Who is to blame? I think blame is a harsh word. I'd rather say its the naivety of the Board of our club. What they really need on that Board is someone who really understands the game and its nuances and really call it how it is. Sadly PF is not that man. I don't doubt his commitment I just think he is perhaps too much of RL's bag man and maybe just a little out of his depth. As for the stadium, yes its lovely now, but a white elephant in the Championship. As for enlarging the ground what is the point if we never sell out a game. I don't put any significance on the apparent shelving of the expansion plans. That is just common sense in the current economic environment and where the club finds itself. Yes I am fed up and depressed with where we are but my support remains and I will still buy my two season tickets even if we are playing the likes of Hull next season.

....and your sentiments are good, I'd be saying there are no locks on the gates....stay behind them that want to go and I'll help you. I agree in that if its that bad there needs to be some sort of clearing of the air. I thought GH was a canny appointment when it was made. As time has gone by I have become more and more disillusioned with GH as our manager. The low point was the Liverpool game where he clearly demonstrated to me that he did not understand our great club. BUT and its a big but I really can't see RL sacking GH any time soon so its beholden on us as fans to get behind him. If it still looks as shit in say five weeks time and we have not brought in players then maybe it is Big Sam time. We as the fans owe a duty of care to the club to do that and its simply destructive to boo either the players or the manager. Every single player in that squad must be up for the battle. If they are not get rid and get some players in who are. I'd like to see a lot more of Sid and McAllister and the senior players really coming out and saying that. Unfortunately Petrov on the OS sounds like a stuck record.

I don't often agree with Lawro but he is going for a 2-0 win to Chelsea which sound about right given our current form. I thought his comments on the City came were spot on and I quote: "Aston Villa's 'display' against Manchester City on Tuesday was the most woeful I have seen from a team in the Premier League this year. It was embarrassing." Hopefully we can do better at the weekend and at least get a point. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/9327504.stm

I actually felt quite sorry for him watching that interview. He looks like a broken man and completely and utterly defeated. I guess the match yesterday was when it dawned on him that it is all falling down around him. I think he does really need to go as I very much doubt that he can motivate the players to deliver anything now.

Fantastic post Avalon, I think that sums up how we all feel.

Exactly! At times I thought MON's tactics and selection were bad. Clearly I knew nothing.

Up until today I have been supportive of GH. I sat through 90 odd minutes of frustration at the Spurs game freezing my nuts off. We dominated a game and lost and I am utterly convinced we could still be playing now and not have scored. OK we do not have a killer striker at the moment but tactically and selection wise its the managers responsibility. Thankfully I did not go to Manchester today, instead I watched a dodgy stream on the web but even that just showed me the same old bollox pass, pass, pass and another pass with no end product except we eventually lose possession. It was a gutless and inept performance and I cannot be arsed to even suggest one player who did something decent. Its plain to see that GH has lost the players. GH and McAllister sit there watching the game like they are mourners at a funeral (oh the irony of that). The players run around like its the first time they have ever played without any clue or any guidance. We have the same players as last season and yet they are clueless. Personally I thought MON had taken us as far as he could but that is a whole different ball game to getting us relegated which is precisely where GH is taking us. GH has two games to save himself. Chelsea is a game that we can get something out of as they are probably (just) in more disarray than ourselves. Sunderland is a winnable game. Lose both of those and he has to go for the sake of the club. If Lerner and Faulkner do not pull the trigger then I really will have lost all respect for them.

When did we last score from a set piece? I simply cannot remember. How many often do we concede from set pieces? All the time. Both those facts tell you all you need to know about how the squad is being coached or not being coached. Downing hitting the poor bloke in Row Z - again - from that free kick. Shambles