kidlewis

If I was running a business and could find a loophole, I'd utitlise it. As long as it's legal. I am looking to setup a small business in the coming months and it basically looks like you only get half of what your company brings in. Everything else goes in one form of tax or another. Great thing about the internet is as long as "business decisions" and the property of the business "servers the info is held on" is in another country, you're OK....I think.

The quote I posted was meant to show class can be, but is not always defined by intelligence. and I think you meant has nothing to do with it. yes I did indeed. I was merely trying to make the point that people assume everyone with money suddenly changes the class they are in. the Harry Enfield sketch "considerably richer than yaou" is a classic example of how money doesn't really have bearing on "class". I think you can judge someones class by having a chat with them.

Class is purely based on behavior and intelligence, money had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm English.. and I can't stand it. Cricket should be banned for putting people through days and days of boredom. you have never seen or played a village cricket game have you? it's the best level of cricket in the world.

try hooking a 70mph cricket ball out the ground off your nose.... I have.

because she was Conservative?

Barring you picking that Ivan up for his spelling the other day that may be the most ironic comment I have ever read on VT. Labour's supression of free speech , right to free assembly and protest is good but when the Tories do it it's bad? I agree with what you have written but for Jesus Christ's F'ing sake why have you never pulled up Labour for doing the same and worse recently? Read it, and weep for our stolen rights I think now you have to organise and basically BOOK your protest in London nowadays. You won't find any protests going on anymore around the HP. There have also been cases of people being arrested under the terrorism act for taking photos of public places like train stations. This government is like that nobbish dad off the fast show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkhpnrGBTRc

So large numbers of people assembling to intimidate people who are trying to go to work to feed and clothe their families is okay? I think it still would have been best to leave the police out of it until something went terribly wrong at one of those flying pickets. Which would have happened, Then you move in heavy with full backing.

NOT this. :shock: who were the bullies number of miners found guilty in court after Orgreave - 0 police compensation for illegal jailing - £500k what about the miners that killed that taxi driver? I don't believe anyone said the miners were all innocents in this no but I doubt the NUM compensated the taxi drivers family, or did they?

NOT this. :shock: who were the bullies number of miners found guilty in court after Orgreave - 0 police compensation for illegal jailing - £500k what about the miners that killed that taxi driver?

OK , maybe I should have phrased the question better .. why is it ONLY Thatcher appears to be seen as the destroyer of communities when the pit closures in Wales which also decimated communities , happened long before she came to power don't you understand it is the way that she did it ? check out the pictures of the time and the massed ranks of the police that were designed to 'shock and awe' state power at it's worse Ian I don't agree with you very often mate but ^ is exactly how I see it too. The only flaw in our view is that I don't know how else she could have overcome a militant union. Any ideas? you'd leave them to it and move in IF things got really nasty. More likely to have the whole country on your side then. What if the police weren't there and the pickets got violent towards the people wanting to work? remember it was an unofficial strike wasn't it? no ballot was taken.

Looking at the various articles about the history of coal mining and the way in which it was handled. It is quite clear that they were phased out too quickly. Ofcourse it needed to happen but there was no opportunity for communities to find alternatives to working in the mines. Also the use of police NOT from the local area could be seen in two lights. The fact local police might sympathise with the locals and not control the picket lines properly and the flip side that the government were being heavy handed in bringing in loads of police from other areas. This would naturally increase tension. Scargill seemed a man on a mission with no regard for the Unions or anyone else. He sounds dodgy as **** and unfortunately for the NUM he was their leader. He sounds just as guilty of stiring up a class war as Thatcher. Someone mentioned "The Battle of Orgreave", just sounds like they employed offensive tactics which always ends up being negative. ANyone remember the Italian riot police dishing beats on numerous occasions? it's always a bad idea. Riot police are there to protect, not attack. I listened to a guy from Derbyshire on BBC that broke the picket lines to go back to work. By the sounds of it the picket lines were far from friendly towards them. I think without the police there to try and manage things there would certainly have been more deaths.

cricket is the only bat on ball sport worth watching IMO.

Explain why they are actually reopening mines in South Wales then? because it is probably cheaper and generates more jobs than renewable? perhaps global warming is a load of shit? perhaps they want to get a few more votes? perhaps those mines can be mined in a safer, controlled manner and that they aren't deep mines? perhaps the infastructure at those mines means the cost of re-opening them is a lot less than anywhere else? I do think we should have a few mines open, but to try and have the mining industry we used to have would be just complete madness, especially in these times.

I think even if they were still open, with all the global warming issues coming out now, they would be shut down just as swiftly now. Whether global warming is true or not, our country would be under incredible pressure to close them, especially as they were heavily subsidised. It's not as if Labour have revived any of the coal mines since they have been in power, if anything they have pushed forward for gas fired power stations, which was part of the conservatives replacement fossil fuel stations after the pits were closed. The fact that RJB took over the remaining coal stations and found that it just wan't able to keep the coal industry going in such a competitive market. It just couldn't be run as a business, hence the heavy subsidies. It's quite obvious the biggest issue as a result wasn't economic at all, it was social and communities left in tatters because they relied wholy on those mines to bring work and function. Once they were shut, that was it. The good thing I think will be that in time, the importing costs of coal and other fuels will rise, and perhaps we may find ourselves resorting to re-opening mines in 50 years time to try and maintain self sufficient power. I think once renewable energies make up a larger portion of our countries power source, they might be room to start mining again. Especially as Oil is going to go up as the resource runs out. If there is any coal left in any of those mines, they will get utilised eventually. unless we do what the French and Japanese have done and just go Nuclear.

I feel like a clearing in the woods now for singing "Istanbul my lord" but that's another discussion Elbow - One Day Like This Throw your arms up high One game like this A year'd see me right OR Throw your arms up high Let the players down there know we have the pride OR Make the opposition cry Send them home with a piece of humble pie

The biggest point there is un-checked wage claims. THAT is so wrong you have no idea. I used to work at a mortgage company and wages were so stringently looked at. Generally you would need your last 3 payslips if you were employed. If you were self employed you needed to provide further information to proove the state of your companies situation. Footballers etc had to send in their contracts (the whole thing) to show any extras and stuff they might have had. I don't think the problem is the LTV in all honesty, it's the persons ability to pay the mortgage payment and having enough money to live on. When Northern Rock was offering 125% LTV, the 25% was as a seperate loan, but on the same rate as the mortgage. Basically an easy way to get a low cost loan. At the height of Northern Rocks business, interest rates were pretty high, hence their business grew. The fact they didn't stringently ask for detailed wage information was a bit of a joke to me. Especially as I used to be indirectly involved with the department at the mortgage company I used to work for. PLUS I should know...I have a 125% mortgage. Can easily cover the payments, providing the recession doesn't get me laid off. Even then I can get a 6 month mortgage break that gets added onto the end of the life of the mortgage, so I have 6 months to find a new job if that happens. But all that was in place before they went down the shitter. basically it proves the FSA didn't regulate the bad boys properly and that was their ONLY job. The FSA should be given a massive kick up the arse, or disbanded.

the FSA is about as useful as a flat spare tyre. I used to work in a department for a mortgage company, that purely came about due to FSA regulation. It had almost no use at all the job I was doing. But if they wanted to pay me £800 per month to do so, then I am not going to stop them.

I did respond to that point about Dinosaurs a couple of pages back......excuse quoting myself ... The Bible may well make mention of these giants... ... (Genesis 1:20-21) . . .And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . the Bible account in the first chapter of Genesis simply states the general order of creation. It allows for possibly thousands of millions of years for the formation of the earth and many millenniums in six creative eras, or “days,” to prepare the earth for human habitation. Some dinosaurs (and pterosaurs) may indeed have been created in the fifth era listed in Genesis, when the Bible says that God made “flying creatures” and “great sea monsters.” Perhaps other types of dinosaurs were created in the sixth epoch. The vast array of dinosaurs with their huge appetites would have been appropriate considering the abundant vegetation that evidently existed in their time. Jesus himself said there would be divisions and false teachings amongst his followers within preceding generations, I think it's up to everyone to examine the evidence and decide for themselves. Religion has caused huge divisions and indeed been used as an excuse for wars and disputes. However how can Christianity ever be used as an excuse to fight. Jesus said specifically that we should be peaceable and love our enemies...and if we lived by the sword we would die by the sword. Now I am note religious at all, but I can perfectly except the morals in your last paragraph. It's not often you will get an atheist/agnostic agreeing with you. Whilst I don't believe in God, I do believe that last paragraph could have happened and probably did to be honest.

I have to admit you have done very well considering the barrage of hard line stances people have taken. I think people rather than debate it openly, the allow their personal views to get the better of them. I do have to admit though, the dinosaur point someone made earlier is a very good one. Hence why so many christian groups in america fail to recognize evolution and darwinism, because that point alone puts sections of the bible into question. Also the bible has caused key differences between people previously together in their faith in the past? That has without down to someone's interpretation of what they believe to be God's will. The clear one is some people believe Jesus was the son of God and others saw him as a prophet. The very fact that they argued over this point means that Jesus' position in the world was not clear. If it was, then why the division in the first place? why could God want his son to divide his people?

As that girl from the Christian Union told me when I asked her "if God loves everyone, why do I have cancer?" "God has many different ways of showing his love". So that's why Rob. He's just showing his love in the most bizaare ways possible. please tell me she didn't say that? I won't even say what I would have said, because I will get banned from this forum.

it's funny how I have been posting for about the last 3 pages and not one response. You two sides battle it out and I will sit in the middle with the popcorn. If you are not willing to bring me into the debate and actively voice your opinion on my opinion then **** it. I'll be back in a minute, I got salted not sweet.

:shock: If Jesus (who is God) admits that Demons are capable of supernatural acts, then why is god so allmighty? because he is all powerful and allows them to do so.

and if not, then does that make all "modern" miracles fake?

"The concept of God and religion has been in our history since society came about. It is that fact alone that has led it to become the factual source for many peoples belief in where we came from." Whether religion would have developed to what it is today if the theory of evolution was discussed back at that point in history might be another matter. Back then many weird situations would have been put down to Gods intervention, but perhaps it was just coincidence. The documentary in regards to the parting of the red sea and how it is a plausable event and could happen again. If everyone on this earth tossed a coin 100 times, someone would get heads every single time. Does that mean that is an act of god, because it is just so implausable?