kidlewis

is that Jizz? depends on how much you enjoy Jazz Drat

but I enjoye debating the issue to find out how people came to the conclusion God indeed create all and everything. Whilst I cannot empathise with their logic and conclusion, I am willing to accept they believe that and their reasons for doing do. Whilst they cannot prove he exists to me, I do like to find out why they believe he exists. If they believe that then that is fine. I don't hate anyone for doing so, what I do not like is when people do things "in the name of their religion", because that shows they are not doing things because they want to, they are doing it because they are told to. and the fact religious texts are open to individual interpretation shows god's word isn't finite at all. It can be manipulated by the reader to how what they "think" God wants us to do. Hence the majority of all extremism stemming from religion. But you do get the odd extremist Atheist, which is probably worse in terms of my view of their stance on this question. Extreme Atheists are just as deluded as Bin Laden IMO

WHAT THE ****? was he a mental? Pianists playing during meals shouldn't really sing, especially with a mic through speakers, not on valentines. Classical music, chilled piano, perhaps a little improvised jazz, even some of their own compositions would be nice. Something you haven't heard before that really fits the mood. I am no Mozart or Beethoven but can play a piano and would know if I was thrown in at the last minute not to play Dolly Parton 9 to 5. Your out on Valentines day and then someone reminds you of work, through music....that's just out of order lol

Except you haven't debated, you've gone "this is what I believe" then closed your mind to the issues with that. Chance upon chance upon chance is still one hell of a lot more likely than intelligent omnipresent being suddenly existing out of nothing. Evolution is also scientifically proven, it DOES happen, there is no doubt about that. The chance upon chance upon chance is PROVEN to occur. So you're more willing to believe in a story from a book than something that has scientific evidence? Incidentally, the CofE has posthumously apologised to Darwin and accept they were wrong in decrying evolution and have accepted it as fact. Why don't you? maybe because it still doesn't prove where the universe came from? we are a result of evolution no doubt about that. But our part in the creation of the universe does not mean God couldn't have created the universe ages ago and left it to it's own devices. Oh I dunno now I am arguing the case for Gods existence. **** sake man, what am I doing. I am debating with my **** self. you see, I am a creative thinker, I ask questions and try to answer them myself based on what I know, think could be plausable and what other people think even if I dont agree with it. **** SAKE GET OUT OF MY OWN HEAD. arrrrrrrrrrrgh lol perhaps I am too tired. really am going to bed now.

Really? :shock: Oh, of course, in a rather patronising 'faith in something even if that something is nothing' kind of idiocy....as long as there is faith then it doesn't matter to what one is praying. Yep, that strengthens your case, me old china. It was more of a "I don't care about life in general" attitude I'm afraid of. Least the "No"'s have gave it thought. But if you want to take that slant on things, be my quest. Just because people don't give a shit about religion, doesn't, at all, mean that they don't care about life, some people have different interests, some turn to sport, some turn to education, some turn a *sophy of some kind... Just because it's your emotional crutch, doesn't make it everyones. I think that the people that have never asked themselves the question "where have we come from" and "why does religion exist" do not really have as in depth creative mind as people like myself. I question a lot of things and then try to understand my stance, others and why people even asked the quesiton in the first place. Then i somehow get the train of thought onto why am I still up, at what bit in time does yesterday become today. Is it a simple case of the clock says so? how did we quantify time into units and seconds? obviously based on the our orbit around the sun and the cycle of the planet, seasons etc etc. then I look at the forum and think "who invented smileys?" I then finish the post and think "will I check to wait for a response.....or just go to bed like I said I would do an hour an 4 minutes ago". Then I think....mmmm I have a crunchie by me....how have I gone an hour without eating that. Then I think. God cannot exist because he would just be eating crunchies all the time. mmmmm. oh wait I have work tomorrow. SHIT!

Sounds like something someone would make up, then pretend to be pally with him, then use it to control the unwitting masses. Hang on a minute... K, we evolved from frogs. This is why you cannot debate with a theist. Of course we didn't evolve from frogs, and NO ONE will claim that we did. Just like no one will claim we evolved from Chimpanzees (we just share common ancestors with them). Funnily though, us evolving from frogs is still less crazy than "THERE'S A MAGIC MAN IN THE SKY THAT MADE US ALL!" Ive been debating for almost 3 hours with out the use of throw away sarcastic comments. Its 1am, I make a single comment like that, and you jump on my back saying I'm unable to hold a debate? Get out. O and by the way. yes I am more willing to believe in "A MAGIC MAN" as you delicately put it than evolution being a process of "chance upon chance upon chance". That's a fair point, but you cannot completely deny that chance exists? otherwise you are telling me that the game "Snap" doesn't exist. There is the possibility that a chain of coincidences led to us being here. Chaos Theory might be a theory, but it is plausable, no matter how ridiculous you may think it is. I am on the belief that it is more plausable than there being a single being of somethingness that created everything as we know it. You just seem to be on the other side of the fence. And you must have argued your case very well because I can see why you believe in a god and why you believe he created everything. Obviously you do not need to justify your faith to yourself but to me you needed to because I wanted to see how you can justify his existence. And to be fair you have done that. I just cannot empathise with your logic. Some people think you are deluded or stupid because of your belief. Not me, I am not a hardcore atheist and think all believers are dumb. I just cannot see MYSELF ever believing in a god. You seem to hold a debate very well and seem a very balanced individual. Don't worry about the people that have had a go at any of your sarcastic comments, you have had plenty thrown at you and you coped well. I always treat these kind of debates as a sort of duel. There can be no real agreement of conclusion between the two sides, more of an understanding of each others opinion on the debate. This is probably a quillianth of the debate that has gone on for a fair few years now and will go on long after we are gone. Was a good one, although the next time some chump starts this discussion, have the decency to stay around for the debate. Jesus, the dude that started this caused one monster debate. I think we have one of the most in depth, busy and awesome fans forum out of any club. By an absolute mile. We differ and agree on many different issues, some which are very in depth and sometimes very heated. But know at the end of it all I can probably still shake your hand and have a beer with you and go on to talk about something completely different like Cheryl Tweedy's lovely snatch.

Sounds like something someone would make up, then pretend to be pally with him, then use it to control the unwitting masses. Hang on a minute... K, we evolved from frogs. This is why you cannot debate with a theist. Of course we didn't evolve from frogs, and NO ONE will claim that we did. Just like no one will claim we evolved from Chimpanzees (we just share common ancestors with them). Funnily though, us evolving from frogs is still less crazy than "THERE'S A MAGIC MAN IN THE SKY THAT MADE US ALL!" The whole point of god, and why we debate all this is because we truly don't know. I believe there is no God, but cannot prove there "isn't" one. I merely make up my own mind based on the information and opinions I have of my won existence. Even if god came down and went "hey dudes" I exist. We couldn't comprehend he does exist. Religions would fight each other because they will believe "this is their god" and the atheists will go "fake, or ROFLS". We would probably all go insane if we saw him. Who said "to know god is to know madness"? or something like that. We basically should just nuke ourselves to death and be done with it. because we will never know the true answer, and the believers in god will never believe if we could proove that there was no god. Because that proof can never exist in the believers eyes. It's like me shitting on your face, then telling you I didn't shit on your face....because I didn't.

Sounds like something someone would make up, then pretend to be pally with him, then use it to control the unwitting masses. Hang on a minute... K, we evolved from frogs. bacteria I think. honestly I gotta go to bed now. I am going to the game tomorrow. Anyone on this forum going to the game? I will be wearing my villa top with "kidlewis" on the back. just don't run up to me and kick the crap out of me "in the name of the lord". j/k j/k night all, lets hope we send the russians back begging for forgiveness.

Considering, we are an insignificant dot on the edge of an insignificant galaxy under the grand scheme of things, I highly doubt we are important to any omnipotent being. but he sees everything all of the time dude. so nothing can be neither significant or insignificant. Shit, thats called multi-tasking... and wouldn't a omnipotent being be asexual? so why call it he? because I cannot be bothered putting asexual all the time. I cannot comprehend god existing so I imagine him as a dude with a white beard and really rough skin, white clothes and talks like Gandalf. In Fact....he looks like Gandalf.

dude I have had this debate at least 20-30 times to this kind of depth and timescale. Once was with a drunken irish preacher in London. He was a great debater even though he stank of wiskey. But my stance was me not agreeing with him shouting the word of god to people that probably don't want to hear it. It was really good until the teacher told us we couldn't carry it on, mainly because the teacher was worried he would try and kick the shit out of us.

Considering, we are an insignificant dot on the edge of an insignificant galaxy under the grand scheme of things, I highly doubt we are important to any omnipotent being. but he sees everything all of the time dude. so nothing can be neither significant or insignificant.

All of them nonsense! Oj oj... Anyway... we could go on all night I'm sure. I have faith. You don't lets just end it there? Ah the easy way out He's rattled boys! hey easy Doooooooooog. ofcourse he would be rattled, I am. well was. Not rattled in an angry way, more in a "I cannot understand how he got to have that stance on belief in God, becuase I cannot see myself doing that". I cannot empathise. as I am sure he cannot empathise with why we have such strong views against a belief in God. I still maintain my point from ages ago that all preaching in public should be completely banned. (or was that in another topic)? arrrrrrrgh Have really enjoyed this debate. It's not something I like doing too often cos I get involved and enjoy both sides of the argument. Plus, I found it a little grating that the person who created this promptly **** off about 10 minutes later lol I hope you enjoyed creating the carnage dude....hope you enjoyed it. LOOOOOOOOOOOL

If I went down to Ladbrokes tomorrow, and asked for their odds on an organised religion one day creating a system which would see a percentage of the money religiously-influenced artists go to the church, would I be a mental? no, but they would look at you as though you were one. would be interesting to ask someone in the bookies who was wearing a cross or other religious symbol. Would put them in a pretty awkward situation.

I just thought of a massive point. Many musicians believe stongly in God. They thank God for helping them gain success. If he is the creator of all that is, and ever will be. Do they have to pay him royalties?

I have done over 100 posts today....shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

no I couldn't be bothered to edit so just hit quote. Plus I want to add another post to my ever growing 1000+ posts watch out Ian I am coming for ya!

Didn't God supposedly create man in his own image? So if man was created as an intelligent being, then it was because God was intelligent? Signed: D. Advocat. Yeah but he created animals too, so he is a piglet? Funneh, except teh Bible does not say that he created them in his own image. it also bases the creation of everything around earth. Funny how we base the existence of god around the planet we conveniently live on. our solar system is NOT the centre of the universe and the centre of all that exists. But a lot of religious texts base the origins of god around our earth. Why is that? because when it was written we didn't know the Universe existed.

unfortunately our belief in Gods and differing opinions on how we got to exist can NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER (repeat to end) happen.

Didn't God supposedly create man in his own image? So if man was created as an intelligent being, then it was because God was intelligent? Signed: D. Advocat. Yeah but he created animals too, so he is a piglet? Funneh, except teh Bible does not say that he created them in his own image. it also bases the creation of everything around earth. Funny how we base the existence of god around the planet we conveniently live on. our solar system is NOT the centre of the universe and the centre of all that exists. But a lot of religious texts base the origins of god around our earth. Why is that?

Didn't God supposedly create man in his own image? So if man was created as an intelligent being, then it was because God was intelligent? Signed: D. Advocat. Yeah but he created animals too, so he is a piglet?

Intelligence the result of creation? Where did you get that from? Why did initial intelligence have to be "created". because god is the creator of everything, even himself. so he had to create intelligence, otherwise how did he get it? how did he even exist in the beginning?

That.....is....****....immense. Did you come up with that? that is going to be my sig..... dude that's awesome

Sorry Jondaken, could you answer this point raised please, I'm interested to know how you believe God was created. I don't know is the short answer. If I did, I'd have to BE God wouldn't I? If it did happen (that is to say, if he was created, and he hasn't just always been there) then it was a long long time ago, I did not exist, noone but God did, and all ive got to go on is a few verses at the start of Genesis and John, so I'd be a bit of a muppet to think that I did know, but no doubt a few of you think I am anyway haha. And yet you seemingly KNOW that we didn't just evolve, dispite it happening a long long time ago, and you not existing at the time, because, our computers didn't. Welcome to the world of hypocrisy my friend. It's hard to get everyone to understand a chain of thought typed down in an hour of why I believe in God. If my argument isnt rock solid its only because I'm human and make mistakes But anyway, I don't see the hypocrisy. All the other things ive explained because of what ive read in the Bible and what I see around me. The existence of God is not the same argument as how did he come in to being. Christianity is a faith. Finding proof in a faith is not going to happen, so don't look or ask for it The hypocrisy is in dismissing that one complex life form can come from nothing, and instead drawing the conclusion it was created, and then accepting that another can, with the reason "I wasn't there to see it so I don't know". No. The evidence of God existing is still here to be seen. Its everything around me. Its objects, feelings, intelligence. The evidence of things being created, is right there infront of my eyes. I don't think I needed to be there, when this computer was built, or designed, to know that it was built and designed. Understand me at all? But it's not evidence. It's still belief. Evidence implies fact. But not having evidence doesn't mean it's not right. well belief in a god is the ONLY aspect of human actions and feelings where not having evidence, proof or fact can still lead to justification.

the more I think about this the more I think it's ridiculous. He is the creator of all and everything. He creates us, then gives us free will in the hope that we will follow him. But he gives us no indication he exists at all, but tells us to believe in him. He isn't making things easy for himself is he? in fact he is making it pretty much impossible for anyone to believe in him. Obviously many people do, but it would be interesting to see how people come to believe in a god. I was tought R.E at school, but never came to the conclusion I came from god.

Basically, yes. so if he has indeed created all, everything and all that will ever be. He created all religons, therefore all religious beliefs are indeed correct. Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Christians are all correct in their beliefs. No. What he "created" was free will. You believe what you want. You make up stories and tell lies if you want. so why create the 10 commandmants if he created free will? or is that a made up story? There wouldn't need to be any commandments if free will did not exist would there? He created them so that they would know what to do, or not to do. It was their free will that chose wither to obey them or not. (And btw, for the most part, they did not obey them, not even close) And on the point of the ten commandments... just to set aside a common misconception!... there were actually a lot more than 10, and they were all for the benefit of the Jews at the time, and not so much for the rest of us anymore. Although ofcoruse, most of the main 10(if not all), do still apply. Well why do they need to exist if we have free will? there is no point in rules if you give free will to people. They will make up their own minds regardless of rules laid out by God. Because he gave us free will in the hope that we would CHOSE to believe in him, and do as he says. We all have free will yes? Does that stop governments making laws? They make laws for our benefit (on the most part), we can either chose to follow them or chose not to. so he gave us free will, then told us to believe in him just "because"?