drat01

If that is true, which im sure it isnt, then id worry he has lost the dressing room.he has not 'had' the dressing room for a long time .

The irony, as this Tory word removed and his group of Tory words removed was falling through floor after floor of a hotel and then ended up with a disabled Mrs. I wonder if he regrets anything ? Not buying a sidecar?

TBF Lapal (and I class you as one of the most sensible reasoned posters on VT) most of those people raising concerns about Lambert are not just looking at the league table from this year, in fact its a minor part of it. As others are starting to detail, and there many more, its the performances to date over the 2 1/2 years he has been in charge that are raising the alarm on him. It's the way the club is being run at a football level that we can discuss around Lambert and he has been consistently poor with little evidence of any sort of plan and sustained improvement. So to accuse people of being shirt sighted somewhat and looking only at the past few matches and current league table is somewhat off the mark IMO

I had one last year, it was hell. Yup not pleasant - especially when they tell you the size of it is actually quite small

confirmed kidney stone - little bugger ! - cowing hurts !

See Ben you have fallen into the same trap yourself there - you write "what Mantis said and that was that he didn't think we could attract better than Lambert." which is not what you wrote previously "that he doesn't think anyone that we could currently attract would do a better job." and is probably the root cause of the issues and people questioning the statement. Normally you could just pass that off but as you rightly point out in your first post its a key part of the counter argument. Anyway that is all context and I think it's clear now where most stand on the issue from posts and likes etc Back to the subject in hand .......... Lambert !! :-)

But I think Mantis' point is, seeing as he seems to be the one fighting fire here, that he doesn't think anyone that we could currently attract would do a better job. Now I'm not sure I agree with that (although there's obviously a big variable in who we could attract), but people seem to be twisting his words to interpret him as saying "Nobody could do a better job than Lambert" or, as you put it "This team wouldn't be better off managed by anybody else" That's clearly not what he is saying. SO that restaurant analogy earlier didn't work either. Ben - that is clearly though not what is being written at least - and possibly causing the questioning of the posts. To Say who we could or could not currently attract is a very subjective thing and you have to take a step backwards. I think except for a very small minority now there seems to be a general opinion that replacing Lambert is something the club needs to do. The evidence as to why this would be good for Villa is pretty clear so then you have to look at what a new manager could / would bring. The club from a playing side is in a mess, a got lambasted by mods and certain posters when I said this following the Chesterfield match at the start of the season but it's obvious to see that Lambert's influence on playing styles is in place at all levels and all levels are now struggling. When GT Mk1 came in he had similar problems and had to address them not only for the first x1 to get us back into the top tier but also at reserve and youth level, and he did that (something we should be eternally grateful for). Clearly then we need a change of football philosophy at the club - which is dictated to by the manager - and this is where the subjective part comes in, I am pretty certain that even under Randy there are managers out there who could bring in the necessary skills and personnel to achieve this change. As it stands things cannot continue as they are because we are now in real danger of sinking to such a level that it will take years to recover from

I'd disagree almost entirely with this - the Premier league table is still largely a reflection of the wage bills of the teams it features - I'd put the influence of the owner on success compared to the influence of the manager at 90/10. This isn't the 70's and 80's where a reasonably even playing field meant a good manager and organiser could make a huge difference to the performance of a team - it's a league designed to ensure that money wins. Managers define styles to an extent (there are teams were style is dictated by the DoF or owner, Spurs for example) and they can make some difference, but the days of a manager making a difference of more than two or three places to a teams finishing position are gone. Chelsea had no real managerial stability for four or five years; four or five of the most successful years in their history - I don't think the reasons for their success are hard to find. I"m unsure on whether Lambert going would be a good thing or not, the team are demotivated and lacking confidence, a new face might change that and give the place a much needed lift, but unless the club changes, we'll be back here in a couple of years time no matter who takes the position - to some extent I'd be interested to see what would happen if we stuck by a manager through this difficult point, it'd be an interesting experiment and something no one else is doing - although perhaps there's a reason for that! In the modern world of football, the owner is the football club, almost entirely - a new owner is a new football club - that's change - a new manager is a new voice in the press conference and someone else laying out the cones on a Monday morning; they've become more famous, and less important. With all due respect I think this is complete bunkum So a good owner basically ensures success be it at whatever level? Rubbish. You quote Chelsea as part of your reasoning when the reality is that Man City Chelsea etc are the anomalies and not the reality to what typically happens. Unless you are saying that success can only happen with mega wealth throwing money at things Your argument is really part of the problem, it certainly reads that get rid of Randy and things will improve, but get rid of Lambert and it may not, which is certainly a flawed argument at so many levels

I have some difficult to tell you all but here goes ................... Ken Dodd's dad's dog's dead

So the simple thought process is we keep Lambert not because he is any good, and at least we are now nearly all saying that, it's because some people do not think there are any other managers out there that are any good? It beggars belief really, it's like saying I will not treat this headache not because it hurts like hell it's because we may get another one later, so I will continue with the pain until basically I keel over ..... What the man is doing to the football club at all levels is scandalous - scandalous that he is allowed to get away with it and scandalous that some still apparently support his actions. How many more records does he have to break before people see how bad he is, how many more embarrassing defeats do we have to endure? How much more god awful tactic less football do we have to suffer? How many more players are going to be left bewildered by the mumbling fool and his lack of ability? We all know Lerner has a hell of a lot to blame for the state of the club, but Lambert is responsible for the playing side of things and at all levels he is serving up a dish that is made out of the cheapest, nastiest, ill thought out mixed up ingredients. The bloke is a disaster for AVFC and the longer he stays here the worse things will get and any new manager be it of any capability level will struggle to fix the mess we now have. This is so reminiscent to when GT Mk1 came in and had to basically re-invent the club at all levels

If only our defenders could deflect as well as this thread . Lambert is the problem and let's get rid now - his record at villa has more L's in it than a map book of welsh villages

Lamberts destructive influence is not just at first team level it's across the club. That is another reason why he is up there as one of the worst managers to have the honour of being villa manager

Caption Bird's Roy said he would have given that 10 minutes before allowing Bent in for a number two

As Darren Bent passes by on the 9:34 to Sheppard's Bush he gazes out of the Window and witnesses Paul Lambert and his Ginger sidekick trying to sell a clearly upset Roy Keane a new i Watch

Been to Lodz - pronounced Wuch! - many times - interesting place. The "main road" of bars and restaurants is very good in summer especially If you get chance get out of town a bit to some of the villages nearby and drink Vodka there - trust me you will not know what day, country or colour anything is ....... oh happy days

Pepe Mel - just sounds like an antacid

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-fans-calling-paul-8008025 The local rags are now firmly in the camp that time for change is needed, I wonder how he will react?

Mantis - please stop this stupidity now. ""do the panel think that the Lambert contract extension is still a good move and for those that did at the time have they changed their mind and why?" It's a fair debate to be had given that by a few peoples opinions that is the only thing now that is stopping the club ridding them selves of the clown" The post is there - it was about the fact that many are claiming that sacking Lambert wont happen because he has a contract extension, simple as that

Could you explain what you meant by this then? Mantis - with all due respect sir - you are not reading a single post without some pre conceived idea of what is being said. The post you you chose that tiny portion of to quote is clearly about the fact that many on here and other forums etc - and maybe even you? - are saying that Lambert wont be sacked because of his 4 year contract. If you have misunderstood that then so be it, apology accepted, if you still maintain it means something different then so be it and I will leave you to continue doing whatever you want on what is quite a good debate on the merits of Lambert or lack of them Admitting you were / are wrong is a great trait - shame that more politicians wont do that :-) - and I certainly hold my hands up and say that at the beginning I was 110% behind Lambert. oh how wrong I was

How am I? So why not just simply ask people in general whether they think it was a good move rather than single people out? And I don't know why you keep asking me these questions. Read what's actually in my posts, not what you want them to say. Actually no. Lerner controls what happens to Lambert - a few people on the internet aren't going to change that. I may be wrong but I suspect the anti Lambert's are now much more than a few people on the internet. For example it will be interesting to see how the half season ticket sales are going, and what the walk up attendance is at the weekend. It is already clear to anyone looking around the ground after 80 minutes of any game that there is a decision facing randy. I think you missed my point there. I never said those that were against Lambert were just a few people on the internet. By "a few people on the internet" I was referring to the few people who are still supporting him who according to drat are somehow stopping Lambert from getting sacked.mantis i never said that at all

Mantis - for some reason YOU are the one that is trying to make this a personal bitch match. It's been explained the reasoning behind the post - and a valid one at that. Question for you and anyone is "do the panel think that the Lambert contract extension is still a good move and for those that did at the time have they changed their mind and why?" It's a fair debate to be had given that by a few peoples opinions that is the only thing now that is stopping the club ridding them selves of the clown

I am assuming you fail to see the irony of your last bit there? So without any "picking on people" - which is not happening if you read the posts - as someone who has been very vocal in his support of Lambert and often been very quick to put out your views when people have been against him, can you explain why you think Lambert is still the right man for the job - if he is, and what you think should happen in the next few weeks re the manager role at VP. That way civilised debate can ensue

I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of being fickle or whatever. For me the relevance of the post is that there was on here a group of people who a few weeks ago seemingly happy with Lambert getting the (frankly ridiculous) contract extension and the question is, are those that supported the move at the time - and not just those mentioned in the post - still of the same opinion that it was a good move. Maybe it could have been worded slightly different but the issue is still a good one for civil discussion. There is still seemingly an element on VT for example who will not admit they backed the wrong horse re Lambert and he is not this great manager, one of a kind, best since sliced bread etc, which is fine if you can back up views based on facts and reasons as to why you maintain the view. It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to be proven right on the Lambert issue because it shows that Villa - which is far more important than some mumbling Scots fool - are struggling and that is a real painful one. He has to go now, he has lost the fan base both those who regularly attend and those in the wider internet world etc. The players look completely and utterly bewildered by him and his tactics and you can imagine that like many are wondering how he got that contract extension when his performances have been woeful at best. Get rid of the bumbling clown now and lets move on as a club

so can you ignore the rubbish of the past two and a half years? Are you still confident in lamberts ability to improve things? Genuine question because the point seems that you are making is that again we cannot look at lambert and again it's another deflection excuse What makes you think he's excusing the past two and half years? He clearly said there wasn't really much wrong with how we were set up yesterday. In fact, we played the way people were clamoring for us to play during the last 4 games. We had 65% possession, got into good crossing areas, and had half as many shots on target as we did the previous 7 games. The players (especially the wide players) were very wasteful and our forwards are all very much out of form. Whether or not Lambert can rectify that is debatable at best, but that's a different issue. interesting you mention the last bit, because that is exactly the issue that was being discussed! The key thing is the last bit of Lex's statement though there because (again) it seemingly admonishes Lambert of blame. Now it could be that was not meant by the post but it certainly seems that way and one of the common factors of the people who have steadfastly supported Lambert on here is the ability to throw in some sort of excuse for the woeful performances of the past few years and none of those have been Lambert. As you have answered the point raised what are your views (as someone I would say is more pro-Lambert than others?) on Lambert's ability to improve things, are you still confident in his abilities and are we on the right course for an improvement?

so can you ignore the rubbish of the past two and a half years? Are you still confident in lamberts ability to improve things? Genuine question because the point seems that you are making is that again we cannot look at lambert and again it's another deflection excuse