drat01

I don't think it is what he believes though ... he says things his advisor's have told him are populist ..i.e this week an advisor says I heard people down the pub moaning about utility companies so what you need to do is say something that they like , doesn't matter how bonkers it is you'll never implement it but it will boost your popularity in the polls ... and so Ed comes out and says "i'll freeze energy prices " If Ed believed what he was saying , why would he attack tax dodging companies and then sign up with Amazon as a partner for collecting labour donations ... answer is clear ..he says it for the sound-bite but in reality he knows he hasn't got a prayer of getting Amazon to pay full whack Tony - come on here, you make that as if it is just Millband and the Labour party . Is he? I certainly didn't get that from his posts - I think he's just giving his opinion on Miliband and Labour which is what this thread is about after all.oh dear mantis and tony a quick look shows that you have never said anything like that re Cameron - can to show where you have or at least agree that ALL politicians are knee jerk? Your post certainly does read as being one sided view And mantis any chance of sharing your views to what has a chance of being a reasonable chat?

Nobody singing the praises of Yodel then ..........

I don't think it is what he believes though ... he says things his advisor's have told him are populist ..i.e this week an advisor says I heard people down the pub moaning about utility companies so what you need to do is say something that they like , doesn't matter how bonkers it is you'll never implement it but it will boost your popularity in the polls ... and so Ed comes out and says "i'll freeze energy prices " If Ed believed what he was saying , why would he attack tax dodging companies and then sign up with Amazon as a partner for collecting labour donations ... answer is clear ..he says it for the sound-bite but in reality he knows he hasn't got a prayer of getting Amazon to pay full whack Tony - come on here, you make that as if it is just Millband and the Labour party . Let's be honest here this Gvmt has been totally knee jerk in so many of it;s policies - so much so it could be sponsored by a little hammer Your outrage is totally lost by it's hypocrisy

Tony - I thought we had all agreed that map that you bring up every now and again is so flawed if you are trying to prove a popularity thing - if all constituencies were equal size then it would be but we all know that is not the case

edit: will come back to that - a few typo's :-)

I wholeheartedly agree politics and elections should be fought with the emphasis on policy rather than personality, but that isn't reality. Ed is a poor leader and therefore the policy issues become irrelevant. If you don't respect the person you won't respect the policy. Ed comes across as an enthusiastic junior manager deputising for the day. Blair and Brown were undoubtabley the boss. Eames - see I don't think he is a poor leader - he is not a great one but certainly not a poor one. As said someone who resorts to Flashman type attitudes is a poor leader ....... and we all know who fits that criteria :-)

No sure of that Chris. I can see the Labour party going for more a new guy not really taineted with previous Gvmt, someone like Chuka Umunna There was an interesting article on him in the very right wing Torygraph the other day http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11210065/Chuka-Umunna-is-the-only-mainstream-politician-with-the-guts-to-take-on-Ukip.-Good-for-him.html

Eames - there is a fundamental difference between Milliband and Blair especially in terms of his eminence for want of a better word. Yes Cameron certainly should be being ripped apart and there are enough within his own political sphere that are doing that. As you say Farrage seems to have the better of hi, his own party members certainly seem to be cool towards him at very best and his "allies" within the media and fund raisers (tax avoiders!) certainly seem to lack any real support. But that comes back to are we talking about personalities here or are we talking about policies. For whatever reason Milliband does not strike a chord with certain members of the public, and when I see people saying they would not vote Labour because of him and his personality my heart sinks a little because it shows how shallow some people really are and what depths politics has sunk. There is an often used phrase, and Tony hates it - probably because it's true :-) - of pop idol politics. The whole idea behind the phrase is that people are voted for not on their abilities but on how they look and how their "sponsors" portray them. Milliband is not a shiny suit political figure like Cameron for instance, but then again we don't see him resort to the bully boy Flashman when challenged like Cameron. But at the end of the day that should care not one jot, and it should be down to what they and their party stand for and what they can and would deliver. As I have said before, out of the 3 main political parties (and I don't class UKIP as a main political party - they are just a bunch of right wing nut jobs with borderline racist views) there is not a true "leader" amongst them, and sadly there is not anyone standing in the wings ready to take over either for any of them. Marketing seems to be the key to success for some political figures, ironic given Cameron's background and his abject failure but that is another topic, and the more we go towards the US political model the worse things will go for the country as a whole IMO

Hugely OT but I quite like HMtheQ. Something endearing about the old dear really - that said, I don't feel that for Charlie boy at all so who knows - that will probably be the opportunity but would you really want that? I can't see that Republicanism will ever take hold to a level where a President becomes a reality it would be too great a constitutional change and we don't really do political earthquakes here in Britain. the point is as we are seeing here people are thinking more of elected leaders of the country when we dont have one in the uk

presumably yourself and Ajax wont be using the "Ahhh but " and "deflection " argument in the other thread any longer .... rumours of another pact today between the wannabe leaders .. of course the last pact between would be Labour leaders worked well tony your post makes no sense whatsoever sir. If you honestly dont believe there is an element of focus by opponents of labour on milliband as a deflection when people like cameron are struggling then that is your perogative, but i think its wrong.

Should we have a presidency and vote for that?

As we see on this thread with the vt Tory / ukip supporters making so many comments, there seems to be a push from that side of the uk political spectrum to try and personalise the whole leadership thing rather than question the policies of the respective parties. We all know that Cameron has failed on so many levels, from his inability to win an election despite the many millions of tax avoidance donations through to his failure to get even the basics right. As tony rightly says ish the uk has not had radical change for a while the biggest - and worst - was the selfish greed driven society of thatcher. Regarding milliband he has strong principles but is he a great leader ? Probably not, but compared to cuckold clegg and Cameron then the traits what political should be judged against he wins hands down The next couple of months are key for all parties especially Cameron with ukip stealing his mps and the debacle over the eu , you just have to wonder of how much scrutiny of milliband is a deflection from the real issues surrounding a weak ineffectual pm

broke more bad records than a no armed album juggler

Out

daily mail: sootys dad wanted everyone to have hand up their a....... In the war

Tony it must be a southern thing but I don't think I have ever seen or heard a bloke call a song beautiful :-) Edit: Dave adds some bloke talk back to the topic :-)

So many - impossible to chose a favourite but memorable ones outside the obvious ones at Rotterdam and Highbury etc were going to these games (tried to chose a few obscure ones) Villa vs Santos - the great Pele at VP ! Villa vs Man Utd - League cup semi final - VP so full was unreal and for us to beat a Man Utd team of Charlton, Law, Best etc as a 3rd division club ! Villa vs Tranmere 2nd leg - you just had to be there to experience the roller coaster ride Others I am trying to find clips of Villa away @ Chesterfield 1st match in Div 3 where we basically took over the ground and town - still talked about in Chesterfield to this day Villa vs Antwerp - a very first European match - we lost but we had arrived Villa vs Spurs League cup final - lost 0-2 but we played fantastic .......

Simple question - if he is that good how come no other team have tried to hire him?

So many things to comment on - no doubt some will be upset but hey ho Firstly the "Lambert out" campaign / Lambert out group ? - is this really necessary (or allowed)? - there is no campaign, there is no group (or if there is Oi where is my bloody invite !!). A lot, I would say with a fair degree of confidence, of Villa fans are mightily razzed off with the club and Lambert in particular. As many have stated, often to be greeted with some very weak counter arguments from the other "campaign / group", Lambert over his 2.5 years in charge has been woeful. The facts are there to show that he has been in charge over a whole series of poor performance records - think of it as a K-Tel does the Green Goddess box set - something that really cannot be ignored. We then see the excuses trotted out, surely we cannot have many more. A quick trawl through threads of the past few seasons, we have seen "when Okore is back the defence will be great", "when Vlaar is back the defence will be great", "When Benteke is back the attack will be great", "When XYZ is back, the **** will be great" etc etc. We have also seen, illness, the make up of the fixtures, Sky moving games around, the press misreporting things etc etc. Of course Lerner's running of the club is baffling to put it politely, but Lambert is in charge of the club playing side, not just the first X1, and the evidence is pretty clear to see that his influence is very counter productive and the footballing style is just not working. I got a dog's abuse from certain quarters regarding this at the start of the season when I pointed it out following the woeful style of play put out by a Villa team at Chesterfield, it gives me no pleasure whatsoever to be proven right, but the issue is still there in the football philosophy of Lambert across all areas of the club. Lastly the whole "is there anyone better out there" argument is so flawed it really has no place in a sensible argument / debate. There are many managers, some have been named and there will be others that no one is really considering, that could give Villa the necessary change of playing style to maximise the (limited) skills of the players. Lambert is failing here, and when you fail sometimes you have to walk away / change or be forced to do both. I appreciate not all will agree, not a flipping problem at all, but at least lets be sensible in the discussion and start looking at what is happening at Villa rather than through some rose coloured spectacles but through harsh reality glass that is showing quite an ugly picture at the moment

...said the midget butcher

Lost 23 of last 36 games?

29 points from last 102?

The thing is now even when, and surely it's when and not if, he is sacked I wont be happy because of the mess that he has created at the club it will take an enormous turnaround for whoever takes over. The man has created a playing ethos around the whole club that is so backward looking its probably got white reverse lights and beeps. Today was actually a slight blessing in disguise for him because he, and what few supporters he has, will no doubt deflect the discussion away from another woeful tactical performance with references to a scandalous reffing performance and the merits or not of the Benteke red card. But the clamour for him to go is not based on this one game it's basically been 2 1/2 years of shambolic performances

...... Go on now go Walk out the door Just turn around now 'Cause you're not welcome anymore

Has to go now. No more excuses left in the big book he has been using. A poor ref today - yes A possible red card - yes But poor tactically again ......