macandally

Delph could learn a lot from petrov. petrov is excellent at taking the ball from the centre half and turning, drawing the foul or laying the ball back of. it relies then on others getting involved to retain possession. take petrov out and you will see a lot more long ball. He does what? Did you not watch Dunne and Clark have to carry the ball yesterday because Petrov just kept giving it them back!!

Ok this is getting a tad annoying, Milner does NOT give a TOSS about us We were merely a convenient stepping stone Wankstain, money grabbing word removed Yeah looked that way didnt it?! Really? Another pariah for you to villify CI.

I dont think he is as bad as some make out on here, but each to their own. Would rather him try to be progressive than watch Petrov constantly giving it to Clark and Dunne to step out with. Whats the point in being a deep lying midfielder if your two centre backs are the ball carriers. Midfield is a mess, full stop. These players do not gel for the most part, although occasionally they show signs of promise. Not sure if it is because of the manager or in spite of.

I think there's 16 teams in the league that will set their stall out for a defeat before playing Man City away this season. The only ones who won't are Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea, and even Chelsea will be nervous about it, and Liverpool should be looking for a defeat, but they're just deluded about how good they are. See where your argument breaks down is that if every club had that mentality, there would never be an upset, the favourites would always win wouldnt they? Actually, when push comes to shove, its 11 v 11 and if you prepare properly, you give yourself a chance, just a sliver of an opportunity to go and win. Call it a game plan. Did we have one today? Please explain what it was apart from sitting deep and hitting Gabby?

Problem is, is that at the time we had a better squad. Our midfield has been decimated. The first 20 minutes showed that their is talent within our squad, they just couldnt live with Man City once Warnock gifted them the second goal. Managers have to impart belief in the players, man management skills. Big Ron was awesome at it. I have to question the substitutions because they were absolutely diabolical. Why take Delph off for NZogbia? That left Petrov who tires after 60 minutes without his legs (Delph). Then Heskey for Bannen who promptly dropped back in alongside Petrov, so now we have a pair of midfield enforcers built like leprachauns. No wonder we got overrun!

The pro McLeish brigade took time to set their stall out for defeat before this game and therefore, as far as they are concerned the result was a foregone conclusion. That is what worries me the most, the defeatist attitude of our fans and to a large extent, the players. Our team just do not look like they believe they are good enough, if the players dont believe it, how is anyone else supposed to. For all ONeills faults, he had the squad and the fans believeing we could achieve results, could beat the Man Yoos and Arsenals. If someone has the audacity to argue that McLeish is the man to install that type of belief, I want a pint of what your on! MoM to me, James Milner for having the respect not to celebrate against the club I think he still loves.

But why sturgeon yourself with such eelings of resentment? I love the way you are always bream to help others Gareth. Minnow McLeish is not herring the best of seasons from an attacking sense, but we should always be able to b roach the subject.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. At least use a kipper for a change. I hope this is going to be the sole use of a fish pun in this thread and people don't start trawling the net for them again. I hate it when people carp on, I think we should stickleback to the point and not treat McLeish as if he is some sort of cod.

How can you be the manager of something yet not responsible? So why are we paying him 2m a year? How come Pardew is doing a better job with a worse squad, playing good football? We even got outplayed by Wigan in a footballing sense. The fact their whole team cost 9.75 doesnt help their case. The question is, is McLeish getting the maximum out of this squad? To me, no way. Our two wins out of an easy start, Blackburn and Wigan who sit 19th and 18th in the premier league respectively. I said after the Wigan game that one swallow does not make a summer and people should not go over the top based on that win. Seem some have but I am sure reality will hit after Saturday, although I fancy Given to have an absolute blinder! Is McLeish on the pitch? No Did you watch the QPR game? If so, surely you notice McLeish giving out rollocking left, right and centre because the team were not doing as instructed. Newcastle flying high? The sun even shines on a dog's ass some days. Did you expect anything other than a loss at Man City? If you did then your deluded. You do know we are still undefeated? I dont believe there are any easy games in the league. For me, you dislike McLeish for whatever reason and are using the smallest of things to jump on his back. Cant win an argument, trot out the deluded line.................. We had our easiest start of the season for years, we should be bloody defeated and then some. I dont need to jump on his back, he will show his lack of nous over the course of this season. The only reason I bothered to post was due to the regular "rapture" outbreak a couple of pages back. Its almost self perpetuating, somebody decides there is something good about McLeish and then the same old names get happy clappy. Its funny how those same names are those who are prepared to accept mid table obscurity as thats "what we are" but Newcastle playing compact football is a one off eh? I dont know where they will end up, frankly I dont really care, but what is impressive is that they are trying to play the game the right way. Why do you label us 'happy clappy' because we refuse to codemn a manager who has took charge of 7 league games? :? I just cant see what there is to critisise at the moment? :? Then good for you mate, seriously. I am glad some are happy, although I am not sure what exactly they are happy about. Not being beaten by the sounds of it.

Wow, how wide of the mark can you be? Tactically limited, dour and uninspiring with an average managerial record. I couldnt give a crap who he managed before, or indeed manages after, I just want him out of the villa. For someone who speaks a lot about 'trouting the same lines', you seem to be doing the same with this 'tactically limited' stuff. Care to explain why he's such a bad manager? For what it's worth, I still think you'd be having a moan should someone with an 'excellent managerial record', who was absolutely exiting got off to a similar start to AM. So stating the fact he is tactically limited, dour and uninspiring with an average managerial record is not enough for you to understand why I think he is a bad manager? Our forward play is lacking cohesion, we are being bailed out by a Gabby who is frankly inspired at the moment. Take that away, we would arguably not won yet. Our midfield is porous and our lack of discipline in either pressing higher up the pitch or dropping back to two lines of four will cost us against better teams. Credit where its due, the defence is back to where it was with MON, but still looks susceptible to movement (i.e. we are not keeping clean sheets). I could go on, but hopefully that gives you some idea of my thoughts. And why would I complain about a good manager? If we had one, and a direction, I would be happy.

Wow, how wide of the mark can you be? Tactically limited, dour and uninspiring with an average managerial record. I couldnt give a crap who he managed before, or indeed manages after, I just want him out of the villa.

How can you be the manager of something yet not responsible? So why are we paying him 2m a year? How come Pardew is doing a better job with a worse squad, playing good football? We even got outplayed by Wigan in a footballing sense. The fact their whole team cost 9.75 doesnt help their case. The question is, is McLeish getting the maximum out of this squad? To me, no way. Our two wins out of an easy start, Blackburn and Wigan who sit 19th and 18th in the premier league respectively. I said after the Wigan game that one swallow does not make a summer and people should not go over the top based on that win. Seem some have but I am sure reality will hit after Saturday, although I fancy Given to have an absolute blinder! Is McLeish on the pitch? No Did you watch the QPR game? If so, surely you notice McLeish giving out rollocking left, right and centre because the team were not doing as instructed. Newcastle flying high? The sun even shines on a dog's ass some days. Did you expect anything other than a loss at Man City? If you did then your deluded. You do know we are still undefeated? I dont believe there are any easy games in the league. For me, you dislike McLeish for whatever reason and are using the smallest of things to jump on his back. Cant win an argument, trot out the deluded line.................. We had our easiest start of the season for years, we should be bloody defeated and then some. I dont need to jump on his back, he will show his lack of nous over the course of this season. The only reason I bothered to post was due to the regular "rapture" outbreak a couple of pages back. Its almost self perpetuating, somebody decides there is something good about McLeish and then the same old names get happy clappy. Its funny how those same names are those who are prepared to accept mid table obscurity as thats "what we are" but Newcastle playing compact football is a one off eh? I dont know where they will end up, frankly I dont really care, but what is impressive is that they are trying to play the game the right way.

...because hes been here 5 minutes and we lost 2 of our best players in the summer. What do people expect?! Actually...what is he even responsible for?!?! because im struggling here, help me out. And before you go on about the negative tactics blah blah blah we were playing like that a LONG time before McCleish was manager. I said it earlier....weve played shit football for years now - even when we had the likes of Young Milner and Downing we only saw good football in flashes - to suddenly place all of that on McCleishs' doorstep is just ridiculous. Stu I want to come and work for you. Apparently managers are not responsible for their charges? McLeish has been here for nearly 4 months, not 5 minutes and you are telling me he didnt know that Young was going/gone before he took the job? I am happy to take it on the chin, I dont like McLeish and the sooner he goes the better for Aston Villa in my mind. You guys though just trot out excuse after excuse, when does it stop?

How can you be the manager of something yet not responsible? So why are we paying him 2m a year? How come Pardew is doing a better job with a worse squad, playing good football? We even got outplayed by Wigan in a footballing sense. The fact their whole team cost 9.75 doesnt help their case. The question is, is McLeish getting the maximum out of this squad? To me, no way. Our two wins out of an easy start, Blackburn and Wigan who sit 19th and 18th in the premier league respectively. I said after the Wigan game that one swallow does not make a summer and people should not go over the top based on that win. Seem some have but I am sure reality will hit after Saturday, although I fancy Given to have an absolute blinder! Making things up again, are we? We weren't even close to being outplayed by Wigan. We won very comfortably, and thought they weren't any good and probably will get relegated this season it was still adecent win. And I agree with those who don't think city will be the big test. If we win, great, but we'll still not look at ourselves as title contenders. A draw and we've done it very good, but it would still be surprise. Lose and things are as expected. I only hope for us to give our all and just not let them run away with 4 or 5 or more. Ah busted, your right, I made up the £9.75 inspector gadget......i confess. The rest I stand by. We should have been dominant, but there was a strong penalty shout and other chances where they opened us up with their movement.

How can you be the manager of something yet not responsible? So why are we paying him 2m a year? How come Pardew is doing a better job with a worse squad, playing good football? We even got outplayed by Wigan in a footballing sense. The fact their whole team cost 9.75 doesnt help their case. The question is, is McLeish getting the maximum out of this squad? To me, no way. Our two wins out of an easy start, Blackburn and Wigan who sit 19th and 18th in the premier league respectively. I said after the Wigan game that one swallow does not make a summer and people should not go over the top based on that win. Seem some have but I am sure reality will hit after Saturday, although I fancy Given to have an absolute blinder!

Its good to see the pro McLeish clique being self congratulating and dismissing those "who refuse to see positives". We have played nobody of note, nobody. We have played petty dull football and often have conceded the initiative either from the outset of games, or worse still, like against Wigan and QPR when we retreated into a "one up front hang onto what we have got" formation for the last 15 minutes despite being on top! We have changed formations pretty regularly, a diamond being used against Wigan, so I think we can safely say that after 3 or 4 months in charge, McLeish still doesnt know our best formation. Throwing 6 attackers onto a pitch does not constitute an attacking formation. Use your players properly and train them with a system and you can take an offensive stance without just throwing anyone who has scored a goal on. This argument seems to be the response of McLeishs staff when pressed on being a defensive unit. In fact this week, they were waxing lyrical on how effective Heskey has been at centre half in training. That made my blood chill, what the hell is he doing there!! McLeish is what he is, tactically limited, defensive minded and I pray only a stop gap for a maximum of 12 months. You think we will move forward under this guy, I dont think so. I am glad the players like him, but he is not being paid to be popular, he is being paid to develop the football club and achieve success.

I have to be honest and say that although I am no fan of McLeish or indeed Faulkner, I amazed at how short the memories are of some on here. Have you not been to the Holte Pub? Have you seen Bodymore Heath? Can you remember how poor the squad was the first year ONeill came in? For those who are looking lovingly back to the Ellis years, get a grip. It was shit, we were truelly going nowhere with for the most part, mediocre signings (McCann anyone?) Lerner came in and gave us all genuine hope. I think the anger now is because that hope appears to some degree to have been misplaced and we are back in the realms of midtable. The positives are that the club is finding an even keel financially and the facilites are excellent. The problem as I see it is that there is very little, publically known about how Randy sees us moving forward. The letters with ST show that there is cost cutting going on which is inevitable. Unless you believe the labour government, spending is not the best way out of debt. I am sure there is a plan, but it appears everytime they try to suggest it to the fans, it is met with widespread disdain. The biggest concern to me is not Lerner or the financial plans for the club, it is the lack of strategy on the playing side. I dont see any indication that people are looking to achieve a, b or c in 3/5/7 years time. The transfer policy is ad hoc and knee jerk and if there was serious aspirations to utilise our youth development, we would be getting more kids out on loan to lower clubs earlier. I wont hide the fact I dont rate McLeish or the way we went from "football philosophy" to relegated neighbour as the driving factor for our recruitment. To me, Faulkner needs to go and a "David Dein" type figure needs to be found who can understand the financial limitations, but also drive forward the playing side of a club.

Bloody hell, I know Petrov is a bit static, but I didnt realise we were looking to play him in goal! Are Given and Guzan injured??? :winkold:

Of course, but their youth are excellent and ours are mediocre. That is the only difference, as ours aren't really good enough. I hate it when just because a youth player is at Man United everyone suddenly assumes he is the best thing since sliced bread. Why cant the young players at Villa, that have come through our system be as good or even better? We seem to do more than ok as a club at youth level and reserve level on the national stage. I remember watching our youth team take the Man United youth team to pens not long ago after we outplayed them for 90mins. I couldnt see any evidence in that game that Man United youth were excellent whilst ours were just mediocre. Because they aren't as good? :? The reason they play for United is because they are good enough to do so which is usually a reason why people rate them more. If you have Welbeck impressing over likes of Berbatov and Owen, while Delfouneso can't get in front of Heskey/Gabby/Bent/Carew/(now Weimann) past 3 years then it probably says he isn't as good. Bannan has come in and has done well, Delph has done the opposite, we're giving them the chance but we can't afford to play 4/5 youngsters every game, it's a results business. If they are good enough (in training, where they see them every day) I'm sure they will play. I think that it could be as much a case of mindset. I dont think Man Yoo's youth players are any better than ours. What I do think, is that mentally they are more focused by being at that club than ours might be playing for Aston Villa. We know Fergie knows how to keep kids feet on the ground and the Beckham sale showed any kid with any doubt who the boss is. Meanwhile, we have Gabby spreading his seed (good luck to him) and the Fonz apparently getting too big for his boots, the Bannan tweeting bar pix etc. I am not sure the problem is technical, more mental and therefore, not so easy to resolve. Its a sad testiment of the way things are today, when you ask 10/11 year olds why they would love to play football they no longer say "to score the winning goal at Wembley", they say "to have a ferrari like XXXX". Quiet sad really and shows how much the game has changed.

This, I remember him being interviewed as he left BH on the way to City for his medical. I genuinely believe he didnt want to go, genuinely. I cant remember his exact words, but it was along the lines of "Not sure if it is the right decision to leave, Man City offered a lot of money etc etc". I think this was engineered and sold to Milner by his agent. I am sure that James Milner would have had no objections to finishing his career at Villa if City hadnt turned up with stupid monopoly money. I think every agent in the Europe is trying to engineer his player a move to City. Its called getting on the gravey train.

I am sorry, but what a load of rubbish that is! The reason that Petrov has been released to roam more now is because Delph is basically picking up the leg work for him. To say Delph doesnt get back is just not true. Petrov can amble forward as he sees fit and if the move breaks down, the one breaking his neck to get back and cover is Delph. Petrov will try to stick a foot in initially, but once play passes him, he gets back at his own pace. This random policy when it comes pressuring the opposition high up the pitch is one of our isseus. Petrov, Bannan make an initial attempt to press high, Delph drops back to cover the back four. No cohesion. As for Petrov not getting tired after 60 minutes so much anymore, again, because his workload is being picked up by a 20 odd year old recovering from a career threatening injury and playing his first full season in the premiership. Over the next 3-5 years, I know who will be the bigger asset and if we had a decent DM, I would happily see Petrov go.

This for me!

Too indisciplined and has a tendancy to dive in which costs us free kicks and also throws the rest of the back four out of position due to a necessity to cover his magnet like attraction to wherever the ball is. Distribution is typical of the ONeill era where Heskey was the outball. Unfortunately, Collins doesnt seem to realise that without a Heskey like target man, the ball just comes back at him. He is not awful, but neither would I be offering him a bumper pay rise. Personally, I would offer him an extension on reduced terms or, same terms and then try to offload him for a fee in the summer. I am sure the likes of Blackburn would snap him up.

They are strange examples. If you watch Barca/Arsenal they would usually pass in the situation Gabby was in. In this instance he scored so no problem but play that scenario 100 times over 50 times he passes to Bent, 50 times he shoots. Now which scenario would result in the most goals? :winkold: It's a real pet-hate of mine I've even called Bannan out for it earlier in the season (and so did Mcleish). Arsenal built a dynasty on this extra pass concept, and still score plenty of goals with it. Its easier enough to coach. You just play small sided games in a 40 x 40 square and make the goals about 2 yards across! I dont always subscribe to the "extra pass" as overegging the omellette was one of the criticisms levelled against Arsenal for a couple of years. I guess the thing to look at is if a player is confident and scoring goals, let him do what feels right. Everything Gabby hits at the moment is going in, so let him have a crack. Would Bent have laid that ball square if he was on form, doubt it. Looking at Gabby generally, he is back to the form he had when MON played him as a lone striker. He is mobile, strong and looking to run past players. In this form he almost unplayable, now it is a case of keeping his confidence levels up.

It does tend to be winners who have arrogance!